Blade 300 CFX

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by BladeScraper

yup. a good enough pilot can easily tic toc an underpowered heli. Be it a Nano, 300X, 300 CFX, mCPx...

I say tight fast hard-stop tic-tocs. Not one that waits one second between strokes to restore HS. I know you're not talking the same tic-tocs because it's impossible without enough power. It's simple physics. You OTOH just assume others are not as skillful as you. Show me a video of tight fast hard-stop tic-tocs. I want an elevator tic-tocs that does at least 3 strokes per second with tail rotor almost stay in 1 spot.

If you bring the pinion back down, you'll basically have a 300X.

but a heavy one with still the same crappy electronics.

A stock 300X doesn't bog much in my experience, hard 3D with tic tocs at 100% is pretty darn easy.

Not with the heavy CF frame and once the crappy servos fail soon you're still back on upgrade path.

A small heli can only tic toc so fast though. Bigger helis can tic toc much faster.

A small heli can tic-toc faster than a bigger heli. It's just harder to keep it from drifting because of the twitchy nature. The reason bigger helis can seem to tic-toc faster because they often run bigger power to weight ratio and much better servos. And because they have bigger momentum it "looks" like they don't need to do much to change from direction to direction to keep it in the air, but because of the bigger momentum it takes a lot of power whether it be from the motor or the energy stored in the blades. Try running a big heli with the power-to-weight ratio of a 300CFX and you'll struggle even more. In the end it's still all about power to weight ratio for a tight fast hard-stop tic-tocs.

Small helis don't have much hang time so you have to be applying collective a lot/more often to keep it in the air.

If you apply a lot of collective then it's not tight tic-tocs, maybe more like rainbows. What you do need in a smaller heli is faster cyclics if you want to do tight tic-tocs with tail rotor in 1 spot.

EDIT: Not the best execution but this is the kind of tic-tocs I'm talking about:
http://youtu.be/NYORqbAEfGQ?t=54s

[BladeScraper]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

You OTOH just assume others are not as skillful as you.

No I don't,

I just know that if you're skilled enough it's certainly possible. Are you not skilled enough to do rapid 'hard stop' tic tocs with an underpowered heli?

[BladeScraper]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

A small heli can tic-toc faster than a bigger heli. It's just harder to keep it from drifting because of the twitchy nature. The reason bigger helis can seem to tic-toc faster because they often run bigger power to weight ratio and much better servos. And because they have bigger momentum it "looks" like they don't need to do much to change from direction to direction to keep it in the air, but because of the bigger momentum it takes a lot of power whether it be from the motor or the energy stored in the blades

you're telling me that you can do this with a Nano or a mCP X even with a insane power system? Uhm no.

Skip to 0:15

Christmas flight by Dunkan Bossion with his Gaui X3 and SpinBlades Red Tip`s 350mm (2 min 56 sec)

Skip to 0:35

Dunkan Bossion Gaui X7 (3 min 40 sec)

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by BladeScraper

you're telling me that you can do this with a Nano or a mCP X even with a insane power system? Uhm no.

Skip to 0:15
Christmas flight by Dunkan Bossion with his Gaui X3 and SpinBlades Red Tip`s 350mm - YouTube

Skip to 0:35
Dunkan Bossion Gaui X7 - YouTube

Like I said, bigger machines have better faster servos. They have much more mass and rotational mass for stability and instantaneous thrust to keep the heli afloat so they're easier to do fast tight tic-tocs without drifting too far off. The lower drifting movements from the bigger machines don't mean they need less power. They need a lot of power whether from the stored energy of the heavy main rotor or the power system. A smaller heli with insane power is a different story with a different problem. Tight fast tic-tocs regardless of heli size needs lots of power to weight ratio no way around it. The reason being the rotor is titlted at a limited angle from the vertical. When you separate the horizontal and vertical vectors of the thrust, the vertical vector cancel out gravity to maintain altitude so it's always 1G. However, since rotor is at a very slim angle to the vertical, the horizontal vector to vertical vector ratio is huge. To maintain 1G vertical vector with the slim rotor angle to the vertical, that means 2.5G or more is not uncommon on the horizontal vector which often results in requiring 3G+ total thrust. A stock CFX with the overgear may be able to do 3G peak from the stored energy of the rotor but I doubt it'll do 3G continuous. With a bigger machine the stored energy in the heavy rotor alone maybe enough to produce 3G instantaneously (remember how much easier to auto a bigger heli?) so that also helps. Remember the 2.5G horizontal vector? Apply that to a small twitchy heli and see how fast it drifts out of desired path, espeically when you want most thrust to be genearted by the blade on the high side. Also, a small heli will not have enough stored energy in the rotor to pull 3G.

Here's a flight of my stock powered 130X with heavy aluminum boom with 3rd TT bearing support over stock CF boom. See how stock power struggles elevator tic-tocs at 0.16 so I have to wait for HS to restore. See how I try to do as fast aileron tic-tocs as possible at 0:32. I cheat by letting it slowly drop not making 1G vertical vector (BTW the X3 vido also cheated the same way) but OTOH I bang the aileron as fast as possible (speed limited by stock linear servos). If there was enough power to make 1G vertical to maintain altitude in that case, it would've been 2.5G+ horizontal and very likely pushing the heli off track very easily.

My Blade 130X Flight #558 Fast Tic-Toc Fast Flight with stock motor (5 min 30 sec)

And here's one with more power to keep afloat and even gain altitude, but the problem is the heli is super hyper all over the place (1st 30 seconds or so and about 1:10).

My Blade 130X Flight #1056 More DS35 Cyclic Servos Test Fly (4 min 14 sec)

[Centurian]

A lot of big vs small is the illusion of speed and displacement. If you fly the same path with a 30" & 60" span machine the latger machine will appear much more stable and precise because it will appear to travel half the distances relative to its size. And gravity will also seem to have half the effect on the larger platform.

Much the same a 747 appears to lumber along flown at similar sppeds as a small biz jet

[DoubleCH]

True! That's 1 factor making small heli inheritedly easier to get off track (i.e. twitchier). While gravity pulls a big heli the same rate as a small heli (the same 9.8 meter per second squared) and both helis fall at the same rate (let's take wind resistance out of the question for now), a small heli will seem to fall faster simply because we judge how fast it falls by how many heli lengths not by actual speed like meter per second. If a 700 falls 3 heli lengths a second, the same falling speed for a 300X will be like 8 heli lengths a second.

[Metroart]

Originally Posted by BladeScraper

you're telling me that you can do this with a Nano or a mCP X even with a insane power system? Uhm no.

Skip to 0:15
Christmas flight by Dunkan Bossion with his Gaui X3 and SpinBlades Red Tip`s 350mm - YouTube

Skip to 0:35
Dunkan Bossion Gaui X7 - YouTube

Wow - that guy can fly!!

[BladeScraper]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

Like I said, bigger machines have better faster servos.

I wouldn't say that, MKS 95's clock in at 0.05sec

Originally Posted by Metroart

Wow - that guy can fly!!

I know, he's pure amazing!

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by BladeScraper

I wouldn't say that, MKS 95's clock in at 0.05sec

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. By bigger I mean 300X and up. By smaller I mean micros. Even my 300X with cheap Corona 919MG servos at .06s are plenty fast for fast tic-tocs. And I've shown you TGY-S306Gs at .06s are good enough in my 450DFC with less than 3000HS. Servos for the micros aren't fast enough, especially when you consider the scale factor Centurian mentioned on not just the servo speed required but for the overall effect.

[Uriah]

That 300CFX demo video by Sergio is really good (very spiffy flying skills), but DoubleCH is absolutely correct about the headspeed dropping on those tic tocs at 1:05. I've got three 300Xs. One is mostly stock and the other two are beefed up with 450 sized motors, big pinions, Lynx frames, and governed at high headspeeds (3700RPM and 4000RPM). No one is arguing that a stocker (whether it be an X or CFX) can't tic toc, but what DoubleCH is saying is a stocker simply can't rapidly tic toc without bogging. A stocker X or stocker CFX is not going to have the crisp cyclic responses that my two 300Xs get during punch maneuvers, and the stock 320H motor simply doesn't have the torque to rapidly tic toc without a serious drop in headspeed. In order to make a tic toc look good on the stocker motor, regardless of what pinion is being used, you have to let it hang a little to keep the headspeed up. This does not mean the bird has to travel like a rainbow; with proper collective and cyclic management you can let it hang while still keeping the tail stationary on the clock's axis. So ultimately this means that you can do a real tic toc on a stocker and still make it look good, but it's simply not going to be very fast (relatively speaking). A bigger motor and higher RPM is the obvious solution for that. As far as servo speed goes, I'm running TGY-211s for my 300Xs' cyclics, and at 0.12s-4.8v/0.10s-6.0v they're plenty fast enough for even the most extreme stuff on birds of this size. Generally speaking, with any size bird, a 3D pilot will benefit more from higher RPMs and more torque than from faster servos, especially for pitch pump maneuvers.

[HeliAxe]

Needs a good esc with governor.

Unofficial Video - Blade 300 CFX (3 min 37 sec)

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by HeliAxe

Needs a good esc with governor.

Won't help if the motor is underpowered. I tried 10T with stock motor and good governor in my then otherwise stock 300X. There's so much a good governor can do when the motor is underpowered.

Or just need an "expert" pilot like James H. who can plan his routine to wait-and-restore HS after each move and avoid moves that require a powerful enough motor. That's probably why the CFX is rated "expert", not intermediate, not even pro (who probably bangs sticks which will kill HS in no time with stock CFX ).

[HeliAxe]

Originally Posted by DoubleCH

Won't help if the motor is underpowered. I tried 10T with stock motor and good governor in my then otherwise stock 300X. There's so much a good governor can do when the motor is underpowered.

Or just need an "expert" pilot like James H. who can plan his routine to wait-and-restore HS after each move and avoid moves that require a powerful enough motor. That's probably why the CFX is rated "expert", not intermediate, not even pro (who probably bangs sticks which will kill HS in no time with stock CFX ).

I agree. Will the CFX come out with a new motor or the same as the original 300X?

[terryv83]

All of the electrics are the same

[Uriah]

While James lacks the technical skills of pilots like Kyle Dahl (who is by far the best heli pilot in the world, IMHO), he's an incredible pilot who puts most of us to shame. Nevertheless, I would like to remind everyone of those MCPX V1/V2 demo videos that we all remember so well, and I think it'd be wise to keep those in mind when you evaluate these 300 CFX demo videos.

I'm waiting on a headstrap to arrive in the mail that is designed for a smartphone. This way I can record my heli videos without dumping money into an action camera. Once I get it I'm going to grab some video of me doing piro flips and funnels on my mostly stock MCPX V2 (the only non-stock parts are MH grips and swash). I'll also grab some video of my 300Xs. The reason will be to illustrate that what you see in those demo videos is indeed possible, even by lesser pilots like myself, but that those same videos are nothing more than advertisements with one goal in mind - to get a bird onto your workbench.

As I stated in another thread... A turd is a turd, and a polished turd is still a turd (Mythbusters proved that you can polish "a poop" in one of their episodes). This means that the motor and drive train on the 300 CFX is a polished turd.

[HeliAxe]

[thruster]

I read that Lynx and Microheli carbon frames for 300x are "heavy" while resisting flex and crash damage. Wonder how heavy/light the 300cfx frame shall be? Seems like a CF frame that had good anti-flex bracing but much lighter weight should be possible....and even if it were a little less crash worthy would be sought after if parts were sold at a decent price. Those who crash less would do well with it.

I say....the 300x No Bling CF Lite frame is what we need.

[Uriah]

I've had a few minor crashes on my two Lynx framed 300Xs; so far the frames haven't seen any damage whatsoever. But I haven't "buried" either frame yet (you know, those crashes where the frame is converted to a coffin and the crash site becomes hallowed ground)...

[thomascoleman]

when is hitting the uk?

[Epoweredrc]

Just seen a 300CFX video many it looks nice i hadn't realized the whole head came aluminum with aluminum head block and arm on the servos. that looks super nice. maybe it is worth the money there asking for them hope everyone enjoys them.