Considering a new Protos - have several questions

[esrazor]

Hi Everyone,

Warning: Lots of questions/discussion points below! Feel free to respond to any of or all of the questions.

Getting back into helis again after a few years off. I've finally decided to sell the T-Rex (if there are any buyers!) and look at a "newer technology" heli, new radio, and FBL system.

Protos is my first choice based on the reading I have done on multiple sites, but mostly here on HF (which seems to have the most active Protos community).

There are a few issues on which I haven't been able to find answers, so I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following questions.

- Build difficulty?

- How long (in hours?) I this something I could do in a weekend or a few evenings after work?

- Are pinion issues resolved? Sounds like there have been some new replacement pinions but this issue is still being worked on by Protos?

- What type of flying does this affect - only hard 3D? I assume this is not this an issue with Sport/Scale flying?

- How does the Brain FBL compare with other flybarless systems?

- Any advantage to buying the naked kit? I'm sure it will be more expensive to source parts separately, but I would only do this if there is a big advantage to using parts other than those which come with the kits. From what I've read, it seems most people are happy with the electronics. At my level of flying (and learning!), I assume the included electronics will be more than adequate, but I tend to like higher-quality, over-building even if I don't need it.

- How have you found parts availability? This is certainly not an Align heli in terms of design and dealers that carry kits/parts. I'm not concerned as long as the Protos company is healthy (I haven't read any posts that would indicate otherwise) and there are at least a few good retailers that I can find parts in stock.

- Protos Mini vs 500? (3s vs 6s)- I'm on the fence on this one, but much of my flying will be in a smaller area, so I'm leaning toward the Mini, which should be similar to my 450. I'm leaning toward a 3s system with my style of flying, but would be glad to consider 6s if there is a compelling reason to do so.

Lots of questions here, but I'm trying to get these answers nailed down prior to making a purchase. Hopefully, there will be another Protos owner soon!

Thanks so much!

[deebee]

Originally Posted by esrazor

Hi Everyone,

Warning: Lots of questions/discussion points below! Feel free to respond to any of or all of the questions.

Getting back into helis again after a few years off. I've finally decided to sell the T-Rex (if there are any buyers!) and look at a "newer technology" heli, new radio, and FBL system.

Protos is my first choice based on the reading I have done on multiple sites, but mostly here on HF (which seems to have the most active Protos community). [emoji106]

There are a few issues on which I haven't been able to find answers, so I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following questions.

- Build difficulty?

- How long (in hours?) I this something I could do in a weekend or a few evenings after work?

- Are pinion issues resolved? Sounds like there have been some new replacement pinions but this issue is still being worked on by Protos?

- What type of flying does this affect - only hard 3D? I assume this is not this an issue with Sport/Scale flying?

- How does the Brain FBL compare with other flybarless systems?

- Any advantage to buying the naked kit? I'm sure it will be more expensive to source parts separately, but I would only do this if there is a big advantage to using parts other than those which come with the kits. From what I've read, it seems most people are happy with the electronics. At my level of flying (and learning!), I assume the included electronics will be more than adequate, but I tend to like higher-quality, over-building even if I don't need it.

- How have you found parts availability? This is certainly not an Align heli in terms of design and dealers that carry kits/parts. I'm not concerned as long as the Protos company is healthy (I haven't read any posts that would indicate otherwise) and there are at least a few good retailers that I can find parts in stock.

- Protos Mini vs 500? (3s vs 6s)- I'm on the fence on this one, but much of my flying will be in a smaller area, so I'm leaning toward the Mini, which should be similar to my 450. I'm leaning toward a 3s system with my style of flying, but would be glad to consider 6s if there is a compelling reason to do so.

Lots of questions here, but I'm trying to get these answers nailed down prior to making a purchase. Hopefully, there will be another Protos owner soon!

Thanks so much!

I ohave a Carbon Stretch, 430mm blades, stock Scorpion motor and yge esc, ikon/brain fbl., 3x KST 515mg.
I can't comment on total build time because I got mine used, but I have rekitted it in a couple evenings, it's pretty easy to work on and the MSH brain is spot on for the MSH Protos, lol go figure.
I love my protos nothing runs any smoother or quieter. When flying you hear the motor and the blades and not much else. Blade bark is more dramatic, and IMHO being able to hear it makes it easier to tweak and tune.

As a testament to the Protos, my previous heli 450BA dfc had just enough room to get +-13° collective pitch so when I first setup the Protos I set collective and cyclic pitch to mechanical max.
Took it out and was beating on the power system (hard punchouts, hard pitch pumps, and full collective pseudo ele tic tocs) to get it tuned in. This continued for a couple trips and several packs. I had a slight tail kick, the motor, esc and packs were all getting warmer than I thought they should, it was super quick.
Eventually I ended up measuring the pitch with a bevel box, worked the collective and :wow2 I found out I was running +-18° of collective pitch and +-12.5° cyclic pitch. I couldn't believe it no wonder I had a bit of a tail kick, my other helis would have completely blown the tail with that much pitch.
Ended up I dropped the cyclic pitch down to 10 as reccomended and dropped the collective down to 14°. Now the tail holds like it's in a vice, and it's more like a rocket on rails. Given the Protos is my first premium heli, but my stretch 450 has good electronics, is vibe free, and is pretty quick and light, maybe it's the Brain, or maybe it's the sound but nothing else I have flown is as smooth as the Protos.

Pinions, do tend to wear and are therefore are a maintenance item with similar life to bearings. The 15t is pretty robust.

The piniom problem occurs mostly with 13t pinion, 470mm blades and smack 3d. It takes more torque to swing the bigger blades and the 13t pinion has fewer teeth in contact with the belt causing it to wear out pretty quickly 50-150 flights, as reported by 3d pilots. There is a fix for this, a guy here on the forum uses custom parts, says it works quite well.

Parts are inexpensive, although you will probably have to order them, there are several fine shops that ship fast and carry Protos parts: MSH Direct, experience rc, complete heli, Curtis Youngblood hobbies, to name a few. Rarely have I not been able to find something in stock. worst case scenario I might have had to get a part or two from a different store if my list was long.

I was in your shoes once, decided to get the Protos 500 b/c I already had a stretch 450, liked the smoothness of direct to main shaft belt tail. All in all repair costs were about the same between the P500 and the mini-p. I found a good deal on a nice one here at HF, pulled the trigger and couldn't be any happier.

Sorry to ramble hope you could pick out the facts and your questions were answered.
If you want a smooth, quiet, fluid machine the Protos fits the bill w/o breaking the bank.

Fly steady
DeeBee


Oh sorry the Ikon is noted for one of the best governors, one of the easiest full featured fbl to set up, being quite smooth.

For the mini-p go 6s bc you get a little more flight time and eventually (or immediately) you will want to stretch it and will need 6s and won't want to buy new batteries and a motor.

If you buy new, at least get the kit with motor and esc, maybe get an ikon/brain used or in the kit as well.
I have 40 dollar a piece kst 515mg hv servos on my Protos and they are nice especially for the price. Mine have held up through some pretty knarly crashes and if you do break them gearsets are only $12

[esrazor]

Originally Posted by deebee

Sorry to ramble hope you could pick out the facts and your questions were answered.

Awesome info, much of which confirmed my thoughts, from reading a lot of other forum posts. I appreciate the thoroughness of your posts.

Now, I have to figure out if the Mini for 500 is the best option!

Hopefully others will weigh in with their opinions, too.

Thanks deebee!

[MSH-Direct]

Although I really like both if you have the room to fly it and a few extra bucks for the initial setup the 500 is the way to go. Its not a lot bigger than the Mini but noticeably more stable feeling in the air and parts costs are not that much different.

[corrosionate]

I agree. if I could only have one, it'd be the plastic 500.

I'm not aware of any pinion problems on the 500, and have never had a pinion problem on either of my Protii. I guess some folks did have problems with certain mini pinions though. Seems to me that got resolved but I can't promise that. I'd stick with the stock pinion if possible, as the solid aftermarket ones don't have a one-way bearing, so it'll make doing autos harder, or impossible.

Build either one in a few evenings, no problem. The parts count isn't bad, even on their carbon frame.

Parts availability is great. Between experience rc and msh direct, you'll likely never have an issue either. There are still others I think....

I recommend the electronics in the combo, they work great. The 500 motor runs hot, but no harm done. I'm even liking the MSH main blades on my 500 quite a bit. Never tried them till just recently, but I'm digging them.

As for the Brain, I can't help. I fly only Vbar. And switching from BeastX to Vbar on both my Protii was a definite improvement. Most noticeably in the tail holding ability on the mini.

If you go mini, I'd spring for the 6s system, but it's certainly not necessary. A friend had one set up for 3s, non-stretch and it flew great built light. He beat it around something fierce, no problem.

That'd be my last piece of advice: build it light. They're light airframes and if you don't get carried away with over sized, heavy gear, it will be very nimble and smooth, and crisp. It does not need super mega metal case servos with tons of torque and an external BEC or rx pack to power the servos and all the metal bling. I went the next size up on tail servos (full size on the 500 and mini on the mini) back when I built both mine. Now I'm looking to maybe downsize to save more weight.

[babyuh1]

Originally Posted by corrosionate

I agree. if I could only have one, it'd be the plastic 500.

I'm not aware of any pinion problems on the 500, and have never had a pinion problem on either of my Protii. I guess some folks did have problems with certain mini pinions though. Seems to me that got resolved but I can't promise that. I'd stick with the stock pinion if possible, as the solid aftermarket ones don't have a one-way bearing, so it'll make doing autos harder, or impossible.

Build either one in a few evenings, no problem. The parts count isn't bad, even on their carbon frame.

Parts availability is great. Between experience rc and msh direct, you'll likely never have an issue either. There are still others I think....

I recommend the electronics in the combo, they work great. The 500 motor runs hot, but no harm done. I'm even liking the MSH main blades on my 500 quite a bit. Never tried them till just recently, but I'm digging them.

As for the Brain, I can't help. I fly only Vbar. And switching from BeastX to Vbar on both my Protii was a definite improvement. Most noticeably in the tail holding ability on the mini.

If you go mini, I'd spring for the 6s system, but it's certainly not necessary. A friend had one set up for 3s, non-stretch and it flew great built light. He beat it around something fierce, no problem.

That'd be my last piece of advice: build it light. They're light airframes and if you don't get carried away with over sized, heavy gear, it will be very nimble and smooth, and crisp. It does not need super mega metal case servos with tons of torque and an external BEC or rx pack to power the servos and all the metal bling. I went the next size up on tail servos (full size on the 500 and mini on the mini) back when I built both mine. Now I'm looking to maybe downsize to save more weight.

I agree with everything here except for the FBL controllers and that is only because I don't have personal experience with either the Beast or the V bar.

My plastic P 500 flies great with the Robird and I'm in the process of building a carbon stretch 500 with an Ikon so I'll have some experience with that FBL soon.

[dr dremel]

Originally Posted by MSH-Direct

Although I really like both if you have the room to fly it and a few extra bucks for the initial setup the 500 is the way to go. Its not a lot bigger than the Mini but noticeably more stable feeling in the air and parts costs are not that much different.

I agree on the parts cost, but the 500 is roughly 2x the weight, power and batteries of the Mini. For me it´s very obvious during flight that the Protos moves a lot more air. But I guess it´s depended on what you´re used to. Protos is still my largest heli.

[trickybit]

Originally Posted by dr dremel

I agree on the parts cost, but the 500 is roughly 2x the weight, power and batteries of the Mini. For me it´s very obvious during flight that the Protos moves a lot more air. But I guess it´s depended on what you´re used to. Protos is still my largest heli.

I remember unboxing my Protos 500 and thinking it was huge. Now I'm sure it's the smallest heli I'm interested in flying.