Need Help With Power Brownout

[WilliamS.]

This is my first post, as well my first larger helicopter. These issues I never had on my 300's that is making me very gun shy about this 600.

On the 600 which is a Chaos frame Im running Futaba S9452 main servos, I forget the tail but its a futaba as well. The power for the controller is a Castle 10amp bec powered by a 1300mah 3s lipo.

The main motor is run from a 6s 5000mah running to a 100 amp castle ice, I am not using its internal BEC.

My controller is the Naza H with GPS, and running from the Orange RX dsmx reciever. Also being powered from the 10a BEC.

I can fly it if Im gentle Im no 3d pro but Im getting braver daily. Problem is when I get hard on the sticks on my stand it will brown out and reset. I notice it only when I really slap around the sticks just playing on the stand, again Im no where near the level to that stress on the unit as of now. What has me scared is one day Im going to toss this thing into a flip and lose power, yes I know its already a risk. I fly low and slow right now.

So do I toss the BEC for a 20a or larger, do I run a Life battery and if I do can I run the Life battery and BEC in parallel if I match the output on the BEC, or do I just run a life pack? I want some kind of fail safe and right now other than the trash the BEC is not giving me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Thank you guys for the help or at least guidance.

[RC/DC_5000]

Wow... I hope you don't mean you have the Castle 10A BEC on a 600. The little blue one? That battery eliminator circuit is for a 450 class helicopter. That thing is 10 amp PEAK. On 24 volts it is only 5 amps continuous.

If you must use a BEC, I'd definitely recommend that you do not fly that helicopter until you get the Castle BEC Pro or equal from Western Robotics.

With that being said, RX battery is where its at. I'd just get a RX battery and be done with it. Good luck.

[SumOFparts]

Those Futaba's are only rated for 6v - I would/do run off a 2s 2100~2600mah LIFE......


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2100Mah-6-6v...item58b33c2252


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...iver_Pack.html

[RC/DC_5000]

And for the sake of comparison and understanding. That RX Life pack can sustain a continuous flow of 42 amps with a burst of 84 amps. Now do we really need this much? No. But I promise you that it's worth its weight in gold and that its weight is not a factor on a 600. BEC or RX pack weight do not affect a 600.

CC also got cute with their weight specs of the BEC Pro and didn't include the wires and connectors. So they say it weighs 29 grams where that battery weighs 113 grams with wires connectors included. Neither of these matter to a 600 class heli anyway, so the point is moot. If anything, that weight on the Pro is a good thing to help the COG without moving the batteries so far forward the canopy is hard to get on.

Whereas the BEC you are using now can supply about 5 amps continuous and 10 amps burst. *Danger* flying it this way.

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

And for the sake of comparison and understanding. That RX Life pack can sustain a continuous flow of 42 amps with a burst of 84 amps. Now do we really need this much? No. But I promise you that it's worth its weight in gold and that its weight is not a factor on a 600. BEC or RX pack weight do not affect a 600.

CC also got cute with their weight specs of the BEC Pro and didn't include the wires and connectors. So they say it weighs 29 grams where that battery weighs 113 grams with wires connectors included. Neither of these matter to a 600 class heli anyway, so the point is moot. If anything, that weight on the Pro is a good thing to help the COG without moving the batteries so far forward the canopy is hard to get on.

Whereas the BEC you are using now can supply about 5 amps continuous and 10 amps burst. *Danger* flying it this way.

I bought the bird that way so its not me decision on what was on it, this again Im working on.

I thought the BEC is light but I thought 10a would be enough. What confuses me on the BEC PRO is there is no rating for anything less than 18v where I would use a 3s lipo to power the PRO BEC which I dont mind adding to the helicopter. What does the BEC PRO output with an input of 11.1v or the equivalent from a 3s? I could run it off the 6s Lipo but I like my electronics seperate if I have a main power failure I can still limp it to the ground vs just letting it fall from the sky.

I bought the 600 used so there are some questionable decisions on it. Im slowly getting use to such a large helicopter. Who am I kidding I love the size of it, so much more stable than my previous 300. I wish I started on a larger bird they are much easier to fly see than the smaller birds.

Thanks for the input. I still like a BEC more than a LiFe pack but if the is the way to go Ill order it tomorrow. I puffed my only 6s pack yesterday so its on the bench till I get more main packs anyways.


As for the servos I know they are rated at 6v and so far they are doing the job just fine. I can barely flip it so no danger or overworking them anytime soon.

Also on the 600 Im not sure which model I have, its a FBL with bell cranks, any input to if it would be any better DTS? Dont rag on my too much Im still new, but I do know there are growing pains when joining any community, I have to make the rookies mistakes before I learn.

[RC/DC_5000]

You could power the CC BEC Pro off the 3s pack. The reason they didn't bother to rate it at 3s, is they pretty much assumed no one would ever use it. You can and some people do run the 3s into a BEC to minimize voltage sag as the RX battery loses charge.

This IMO is wildly unnecessary as the servos do most of their work with torque. And because torque is proportional to current- as long as you have enough current for them- they will be more than fine. You just couldn't tell me that you can notice the speed drop of the servos at 6.0 volts and say 5.5volts. Kyle Dahl had his BEC output set low on accident and he couldn't tell.

The RX battery is the lightest and most current capable option (thinking of high current with light weight... not just light weight). Which is why the greatest majority of people use it. When you've had a few BECs fail on you- you'll also start to question their "convenience".

[SumOFparts]

Even tho I have several of the CC bec pros -
I find the WB hercules super mini bec G2
a higher quality product - safer/more reliable - get what u pay 4-
I find them all the times for sale in the various forums going for about $50....

designed little tougher and easier to mount it without damaging it......

http://www.western-robotics.com/WRL-HBECM2

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=702471

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

You could power the CC BEC Pro off the 3s pack. The reason they didn't bother to rate it at 3s, is they pretty much assumed no one would ever use it. You can and some people do run the 3s into a BEC to minimize voltage sag as the RX battery loses charge.

This IMO is wildly unnecessary as the servos do most of their work with torque. And because torque is proportional to current- as long as you have enough current for them- they will be more than fine. You just couldn't tell me that you can notice the speed drop of the servos at 6.0 volts and say 5.5volts. Kyle Dahl had his BEC output set low on accident and he couldn't tell.

The RX battery is the lightest and most current capable option (thinking of high current with light weight... not just light weight). Which is why the greatest majority of people use it. When you've had a few BECs fail on you- you'll also start to question their "convenience".

Bah, making this decision almost a dead split, and the post under yours adds to the insanity! I think I will go with a LiFe pack, which would mean its time to add another charger to the equation. Reason I was going with BEC is I have a ton of 3s around from my 300, so makes it easy.

On a 1500-2000 mah LiFe how much flight time should I expect before the voltage drops out on me. Im no where in need of lightning quick responses from my servos yet, if they were running slow I wouldn't know the difference at this point. Dont judge me but I use the GPS as Im still learning most of my orientations, thus the Naza H.

Also if someone can clarify arent the LiFe packs 6.6v my servos are rated at 6v, doesnt this present an issue with burning up the motors in them? Just asking a question. Again working on my 300 after many crashes I swapped out parts without regard to voltages.

[SumOFparts]

First of all you misunderstood me - when I said your servos are 6v - that's not a bad thing - you just have certain rules no matter what you do in life -

Most 6v servos are fine - just dont over juice em....

As for the LIFE pack - yes it puts out 6.6 - but there is always a voltage drop in the fbl/rx power bus before it ever reaches the servo

- usually one half volt - hmmm - that's convenient -


So they will not be hurt at all using the LIFe -

but there is a catch - you need a heavy y-lead to feed the power in at two different places on the fbl bus and/or receiver - so you dont over amp that one servo lead input.....

-


On my flights I use about 110 mah per flight - mild sport -
so if you ran the rx pack till dead - maybe 18 flights off a 2100 mah LIFe -


So I always cut that number in half for wide safety margin - so I stay under 9 or less flights for that 2100 pack - then switch to my next rx pack in the ready....
so for hard 3-D - maybe only 6 or 7.......or get bigger pack.....

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

First of all you misunderstood me - when I said your servos are 6v - that's not a bad thing - you just have certain rules no matter what you do in life -

Most 6v servos are fine - just dont over juice em....

As for the LIFE pack - yes it puts out 6.6 - but there is always a voltage drop in the fbl/rx power bus before it ever reaches the servo

- usually one half volt - hmmm - that's convenient -


So they will not be hurt at all using the LIFe -

but there is a catch - you need a heavy y-lead to feed the power in at two different places on the fbl bus and/or receiver - so you dont over amp that one servo lead input.....

-


On my flights I use about 110 mah per flight - mild sport -
so if you ran the rx pack till dead - maybe 18 flights off a 2100 mah LIFe -


So I always cut that number in half for wide safety margin - so I stay under 9 or less flights for that 2100 pack - then switch to my next rx pack in the ready....
so for hard 3-D - maybe only 6 or 7.......or get bigger pack.....

Perfect, Ive found quite a few that have 2 leads, if fact you may have linked it. I will order one tonight, do not pass go, just get it. Thank you.

Now onto my frame, thats a new thread though.

[SumOFparts]

I would not use the ones with two servo leads -
much better to make your own y- lead -
Jst female - plugs into life main lead - into two servo leads that plug into rx/fbl unit -

mine are around 8 in total length - to give me plenty routing options..

Its very simple - I'll post a pic - when I get home - takes about 5 min to make if you have all the parts....

-

These are the Rx packs I use -

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=59297

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=59297



-

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

I would not use the ones with two servo leads -
much better to make your own y- lead -
Jst female - plugs into life main lead - into two servo leads that plug into rx/fbl unit -

mine are around 8 in total length - to give me plenty routing options..

Its very simple - I'll post a pic - when I get home - takes about 5 min to make if you have all the parts....

-

These are the Rx packs I use -

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=59297

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=59297

Makes perfect sense to me. Might make 3 leads, 2 for the naza which supplies the servos and gps, and 1 to the receiver. Seems very easy I should have tough of it when looking at the packs.

[jato]

Originally Posted by WilliamS.

Problem is when I get hard on the sticks on my stand it will brown out and reset. I notice it only when I really slap around the sticks just playing on the stand....

.

I also has a NAZA-H for my 600L but it has never flown.. There is currently a AR7300 on it. My question is what is this stand you are talking about? Is it something specific?

[SumOFparts]

Work Stand??

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

Work Stand??

Little lazy susan stand on a ball so I can test and check the Gyro before I fly. Im not familiar to how the the blades should move just by looking to make sure the thing will react how I want it. Saw it on youtube, thought it was a neat idea. Im sure its saved me at least 4 sets of blade because of a stick being reversed.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

I would not use the ones with two servo leads -
much better to make your own y- lead -
Jst female - plugs into life main lead - into two servo leads that plug into rx/fbl unit -

The problem there is that the JST connection becomes the 'weak link'. The JST is actually only officially rated at 3 Amps maximum. Experience shows they can take a bit more without problems, but even so they only have a rating that's similar to a normal Servo type plug, so it's almost pointless using two servo plugs and routing them through a single JST.

JST data sheet: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/524722.pdf

Far better to use two heavy duty servo extension wires soldered directly into a properly rated battery connector such as a Deans or similar and only buy batteries with such connectors.

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

The problem there is that the JST connection becomes the 'weak link'. The JST is actually only officially rated at 3 Amps maximum. Experience shows they can take a bit more without problems, but even so they only have a rating that's similar to a normal Servo type plug, so it's almost pointless using two servo plugs and routing them through a single JST.

JST data sheet: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/524722.pdf

Far better to use two heavy duty servo extension wires soldered directly into a properly rated battery connector such as a Deans or similar and only buy batteries with such connectors.

Something like this

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ePo4_Pack.html

I would remove the XT-60 for an EC3 because I have a million of them, Off the other end of the EC3 I could do 3 servo leads, 2 to the NazaH where all my servos feed off of, and 1 to the receiver for my own piece of mind?

[SumOFparts]

I would just run two leads into the naza - that should suffice.....there's nothin taxing on the rx end.

[WilliamS.]

Originally Posted by SumOFparts

I would just run two leads into the naza - that should suffice.....there's nothin taxing on the rx end.

Makes sense, i know there isnt a lot of power needed for the RX which is soon to be changed to a spectrum rx and satallite.

Thinking of a 12s setup on it soon as well. Need to hit up that thread. Get some life out of my packs as no matter what I use the ESC and Lipos are getting uncomfortable to handle I know thats a bad sign.

Woohoo I can finally post without moderator approval!

[SumOFparts]

Yeah running this at 6s is really going to be taxing the lipo and the esc/connections - I would watch those solders on the motor/esc bullets real careful - always be checking those lipo connectors every flight......

- had a motor bullet solder go bad on a 550 - mid flight - esc goes into sofl LVC shut down -
next flight - esc wouldn't even arm......

-