cant get ANY lift???

[bladeboy75]

hi guys finished modding my bee with a HK esc,orange rx, HK gyro,xtreme swash plate and blades,esky 380 motor CF stab. fins and a DD cp3 tail conversion.it worked well for a while but now for some reason i just cant get it to lift off the ground. it spools up solidly so the head speed is there but i dont know what is causing it not to take off. since the mods ive had a couple of minor crashes (tail boom and bent main shaft) which ive replaced. can anyone give me some info on why this is happening? is the proportion? maybe the 4in1 is shot? gyro?orange rx?? dont know but it is doing my head in please help cheers guys!! also,anyone know the correct procedure for setting up the gain and proportion for the hbfpv2? i have bound it to my dx6i.thanks guys!

[JettaManDan]

with my Bee when i started losing lift i replaced the main motor and all was well again..it sounds and looked like enough headspeed but it would barely get off the ground and had no power to climb...once i swtiched the motor out it flew great...but with your 380 motor it should be fine unless it was bad...

can also check your head and your blade holder to make sure it is all stiff and not flexing too much....

Dan

[Luke Warmwater]

+1.

The HBFP is fixed pitch, so the lift is generated by head speed. No lift = not enough head speed 99.9% of the time. It is of course possible that you blades have lost their pitch....but EXTREMELY unlikely.

Low headspeed is most often a dying motor as JMD has said. It may also be caused by binding somewhere, or the motor pinion being too tightly meshed with the main gear....but my mony is on the main motor. Just a quick check; have you got the main motor and tail motor leads connected up to the right outlets?

The proportional is to do with your tail and won't affect lift at all. The 4 in 1 will generally work or not; it is the internal ESCs that provide power to the motors and they either work or don't if they blow. The gyro is again to do with the tail and won't affect lift and the Rx controls the signals being received and sent out. It doesn't interpret them, just distrubutes them, so it won't affect lift.

The only other thing I can think of is calibrating your ESC and I'm not sure if you can do that with the 4 in 1...

On a separates system, if you turn on the Tx with the throttle stick UP and then power the heli, the ESC goes into programming mode. You then drop the throttle stick to minimum and your ESC is then taught the full range of the throttle. It works with most external ESCs, but I have no idea if you can do it on the 4 in 1: I can't ever remember hearing of it.

[JettaManDan]

Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater

+1.

The HBFP is fixed pitch, so the lift is generated by head speed. No lift = not enough head speed 99.9% of the time. It is of course possible that you blades have lost their pitch....but EXTREMELY unlikely.

Low headspeed is most often a dying motor as JMD has said. It may also be caused by binding somewhere, or the motor pinion being too tightly meshed with the main gear....but my mony is on the main motor. Just a quick check; have you got the main motor and tail motor leads connected up to the right outlets?

The proportional is to do with your tail and won't affect lift at all. The 4 in 1 will generally work or not; it is the internal ESCs that provide power to the motors and they either work or don't if they blow. The gyro is again to do with the tail and won't affect lift and the Rx controls the signals being received and sent out. It doesn't interpret them, just distrubutes them, so it won't affect lift.

The only other thing I can think of is calibrating your ESC and I'm not sure if you can do that with the 4 in 1...

On a separates system, if you turn on the Tx with the throttle stick UP and then power the heli, the ESC goes into programming mode. You then drop the throttle stick to minimum and your ESC is then taught the full range of the throttle. It works with most external ESCs, but I have no idea if you can do it on the 4 in 1: I can't ever remember hearing of it.

I don't think you can calibrate it either..it is either on or off or working or not..so i think it is a matter of just speed....not enough speed not enough lift..unless the blade holder is loose and they are flexing a bunch...

motor and head would be the 2 things to check in this case...

[Bugster]

Just a thought, in my very early days I took my first HBFP to the field on a blisteringly hot summer evening and couldn't get it to leave the ground. Apparently the standard blades didn't like the heat. I know yours are xtreme ones but as I said - just a thought.

Edit: just re-read your post and see you mention the 4in1. Yes they can fail internally and only give about 50% speed if one of the mosfets has failed. I've had it happen once.

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by Bugster

see you mention the 4in1. Yes they can fail internally and only give about 50% speed if one of the mosfets has failed. I've had it happen once.

Ah...in that case forget my comment about it either works or it doesn't....lol.

[Luke Warmwater]

Originally Posted by bladeboy75

also,anyone know the correct procedure for setting up the gain and proportion for the hbfpv2? i have bound it to my dx6i.thanks guys!

Check out the Stickies section for this:
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=188133

[bladeboy75]

hey guys am going to check it out very shortly and report back. i had an xtreme main motor in it so i swapped it out for the esky equivalent and same thing, no lift.. all ive got left is a new stock motor and a used one so if they dont work then i can eliminate the main motor as the problem....

[bladeboy75]

just wondering, would a 3in1 controller from a big lama work on a hb??

[Luke Warmwater]

No, I'm afraid not. A Lama is a co-axial helicopter and uses a completely different mixing.

[boykintom]

Originally Posted by bladeboy75

hey guys am going to check it out very shortly and report back. i had an xtreme main motor in it so i swapped it out for the esky equivalent and same thing, no lift.. all ive got left is a new stock motor and a used one so if they dont work then i can eliminate the main motor as the problem....

From my limited experience, it could also be a problem with the esc. I had some lack of power issues with the internal esc in the stock 4 in 1, that were resolved completely with the addition of an external esc. I would think the same thing could be occurring with the external esc you have on there now.

[Steemo]

He's already using an external ESC: Turnigy 20A brushed ESC.

I've had a chat with any about this and he said once the blades start to take load the heli makes a whining/whirring sound and doesn't get any more lift.

My thoughts were since he replaced the main shaft that the retaining collar was not up high enough on the shaft to keep the bottom pin seated in the main gear, so once the blades lift the shaft out of the main gear the gear would be slipping underneath.
either that or the gear mesh is too loose and it's slipping once the drive train is under lifting load
I've told him to check for end-play in the main shaft and use the paper trick to re-do the motor mesh. and if that fails to try the spare turnigy ESC he has.

Can anyone think of anything else that would manifest itself only once the headspeed gets to lifting rpm.

[boykintom]

Steemo,

I saw the external esc mentioned, and I kinda doubt it is bad, but if all the mechanical solutions you mention fail to produce, and he has a spare, I would try that, too. Just based on the similar problems I had that were caused by the stock internal esc.

BKT

[Luke Warmwater]

Jesus Bolt missing?

[boykintom]

If so, I'd be shocked if it was the one on the bottom! Usually you can't get them out without a cutting torch.

[Steemo]

told him to check for the top and bottom jesus pins.

What about that little brass spacer that has a habbit of falling out when changing main shafts. If Andy lost that could that cause this problem

[boykintom]

You are right, that is easily lost and would be a real problem in gear meshing.

[Steemo]

that also causes the gear to rub on the frame too doesn't it?

Andy check for wear on the frame around the main gear.

[bladeboy75]

ok, replaced esc, jesus pin is ok, blades are good batterys chargedand no sign of anything burn out on any electrical component cause ive striped it down and plugged it all up again.the only other thing i can think of is main motor and battery.am putting it all back togeather as we speak and fingers crossed it should work. will keep yas posted .....

[robbancs]

Originally Posted by Bugster

Just a thought, in my very early days I took my first HBFP to the field on a blisteringly hot summer evening

Did you take it on a holiday abroad?