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4G6 / V120 Series Walkera 4G6 / V120 Series Helicopter Support |
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12-09-2010, 08:54 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Best FBL head setup
I've gotten my 4g6 to a point where I'm no longer chasing every issue and can just fly consistently with some basic inverted, very sloppy tic tocish moves and such but I'm not expecting much more than that out of it. I'd rather not frustrate myself and focus on my 250, 450's and 550.
I'm still using the original 2609 receiver and 2801PRO which I think may still be the best "purist" Walkera setup. I'm really happy I never got suckered into the 2610S from the 4G6S, but it seems that the new 2610V2 is now at the point of actually being viable. I was just wondering what FBL head option would be best at this point if I were to get a 2610V2. I would not consider going with a uRondo or Microbeast or any other full FBL setup on this heli, I'm putting the Beastx into my 250. My choices are: 1. Modify my current setup, Procrasher shaft and Stay True head with the new style rounded grips, and do something like I've seen from the various members on the forums. 2. DKFuji FBL head, but doesn't seem like it's available any longer at this point 3. OEM Walkera V120D02 FBL parts made of Cheese and Crackers, but at least readily available 4. Heli Worx new FBL heads and whatever else I would need for this option I've been going back and forth on this for a few weeks now toying with the idea of FBL is really even worth it, but I think it would make the heli a little better in terms of reduced slop and a little more efficient. Sometimes I just want to throw the whole Walkera box of parts and equipment right into the trash, and then an hour later I'm throwing another hundred $$ at it again..... |
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12-09-2010, 09:26 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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No one can make the choice to spend more money on it or not except you.
As you can see by my new build thread, I have chosen to dump some coin into this bird. I would suggest modifying the existing head for now and see how you like FBL. Rumour has it, there will be a new store opening in Canada in the new year catering to 4G6/V120D02/N125CP helis. |
12-09-2010, 09:27 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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Take a look at this!
Read this (you have to learn a bit of German though)
Scroll down untill you see the (plastic) FBL head. Easy build - almost no cost - works like a charm !
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If it doesn't fit, you need a bigger hammer nano CPX - nano CPX BL - 2 x MCPX V1 BL - 2 x MCPX BL - 230S - MQX - Gaui 330X - 4G6V-FBL - 4G6V - cX450pro - T450pro - T500 DFC - Gaui EP550 FBL |
12-09-2010, 09:29 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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CC's Crazy Heli Shop Online?
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If it doesn't fit, you need a bigger hammer nano CPX - nano CPX BL - 2 x MCPX V1 BL - 2 x MCPX BL - 230S - MQX - Gaui 330X - 4G6V-FBL - 4G6V - cX450pro - T450pro - T500 DFC - Gaui EP550 FBL |
12-09-2010, 09:33 AM | #5 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
My advice? First go cheap, then go durable.
Materials:
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KR, Henk Blade MCX, FBL 4G6V-2S Xtreme, FBL 4G6V-1S Xtreme rewind, FBL 4G6S-1S Bell 222 Darthdark, FBL V120D02S |
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12-09-2010, 09:44 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Eeehhh - oops!
Must be something wrong with my eyes (too much searching for feathering shaft M1 screws)
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If it doesn't fit, you need a bigger hammer nano CPX - nano CPX BL - 2 x MCPX V1 BL - 2 x MCPX BL - 230S - MQX - Gaui 330X - 4G6V-FBL - 4G6V - cX450pro - T450pro - T500 DFC - Gaui EP550 FBL |
12-09-2010, 10:51 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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I have a brand new dkfuji special edition head(color made it special) If anyone is interested in buying it please let me know. I think it was the nickel plated one that I got.
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12-09-2010, 11:21 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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ForceFedDSM ... you won't have a problem selling that dkfuji head.
They're in high demand, and there's no stock anywhere at this time to my knowledge. |
12-10-2010, 05:35 AM | #11 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
__________________
If it doesn't fit, you need a bigger hammer nano CPX - nano CPX BL - 2 x MCPX V1 BL - 2 x MCPX BL - 230S - MQX - Gaui 330X - 4G6V-FBL - 4G6V - cX450pro - T450pro - T500 DFC - Gaui EP550 FBL |
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12-10-2010, 05:49 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Thanks guys, I think I'll try the mod out. I saw that on the German forum but the RCgroups blog is easier to read, thanks Amp.
I prefer this solution so I can keep the hardened Procrasher shaft. I think the shorter the shaft is the better for the small diameter it is. I kept using 4g3 shafts until I got the hardened one. Actually, I was always thinking that in the next iteration of the design Walkera would make a slightly larger diameter shaft stepped down at the ends to accept existing gear and heads. New swash insert would be needed though. |
02-09-2011, 10:39 AM | #13 (permalink) |
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I think I'm finally happy with my FBL head setup, it's about as tight, slop free and accurate as I can get it and it really performs well.
I started off with Zeitgespenst's blog on the RC Groups forums which is very good http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=289958 (Thanks for the original link Ampdraw!) Using the stock plastic head and modifying it as per the blog with some JB Weld epoxy, a carbon insert and a piece of flybar, I had my first head ready to go. I then used the stock plastic grips plus a set of the spacers from the feathering shaft assembly, and then ball links from the flybar pivot ball. This worked very well and was really durable, I was really impressed. Usually after a crash with the old flybarred head, there would be some serious damage, but with this, minor crashes did almost nothing and usually the only real problem would be a bent spindle or damage to the blades at the most. The problem with this setup was that at very high headspeeds, you can get some blade flutter from the plastic grips. But for the vast majority of people I really think this setup is more than adequate. My next attempt was to try and use the metal grips. The problem with this is trying to get the ball link on the grip spaced out perfectly to be centred on the head so you don't get any phasing or interactions. You can see a brass piece on the blog page that was used, which I believe is the brass piece from the end of the flybar that holds the paddles. It is a 1.4mm thread and the blade holders are 1.2mm. I enlarged them, but it only leaves a small amount of metal on the grips and then they can easily bend. Also the ballstuds do not thread into them, they have to be drilled out and tapped or glued in. I was not happy with this solution. The answer I thought of was to have a simple tubular spacer that was threaded through so you could screw in the ballstud on one end and attach to the blade grip on the other end with a short screw from behind. This is a simple concept, but I needed to find a small spacer that I could tap with a 1.2mm x .25 thread. The answer was to make my own. This justified buying that tiny bench lathe I always wanted to have! How could my wife argue with this obvious need? (Anyone interested can check out www.mini-lathe.com, you can get one for around $500) After getting the lathe in an emergency rush to my local Busybee tools store (Harbor Freight is good in the USA, but who can wait for online ordering and delivery?) I just had to get some small round aluminum stock. Under $10 got me 12feet of 1/4" 6061 aluminum rod. I turned down some of the aluminum to about 3mm diameter and then drilled and tapped for the 1.2mm thread right through and played with the length to get it to make the ballstud perfectly centred on the head. This worked really well, but there were a few very minor issues. The aluminum Walkera blade grip arms are not completely flat. That is, if you look at the ends where the attachment hole is, the meatl appears to be sort of tapered, or thinner at the ends compared to the base. This slight angle means that when something is tightened up to them it will not sit square to the grip. So when I threaded the screw through from behind and tightened it up snug, it was on a bit of an angle instead of being perfectly 90deg to the grip arm. This was apparent to me previously even with the flybarred head. When you screw the mixer arm to the blade grip, there were times when I noticed the mixer lever was not perfectly parallel to the grip. It's easy enough to just bend it into the correct plane, but these things bug me. Nonetheless, it worked, so if you look at the picture with the red blade grip you will see from left to right, the ballstud, my threaded spacer, the blade grip and then the screw from behind. I bought some of these screws from a local supplier, but the ones that come with the Extreme CF frame kit are also 1.2mm and would work. The one pictured is too long, but I just cut it shorter with the cutoff disc on a dremel tool. Finally, the ultimate solution. I ordered the new MicroHeli blade grips for the 4G6/4G6S from CrazyCanuck's site www.rchelicanada.com . They come with the mixer arms, but I don't need them. For anyone still running flybarred though, these things appear pretty good....I may need to build another flybar machine now.... Anyhow, these grips are nice! Very solid and chunky, nicely machined and sturdy. The grip arms are perfectly flat and a nicely machined surface. Most importantly, the bearings inside appear to be better than theose in the stock Walkera grips. They come with a small thin nylon stepped washer to be used instead of the stock aluminum stepped one that goes between the blade grip and the head. Being thinner, I thought there would be more play, and I would need to grind down the feathering shaft or use the stock spacer, bt instead it fit perfectly. Usually, as a rule, when I change feathering shafts I typically take out the dremel and grind that tiny bit off the ends to get rid of the play in the grips and tighten up the head. With this small nylon washer, I just used a fresh spindle right out of the package and tightened it up snug and voila, perfect. This is nice.. So I installed the screw from behind, made up some smaller diameter spacers that matched the grips and threaded on the ballstud. The spacer needed to be 3.5mm long and that's it. I did the head mod with the epoxy and carbon rod insert on my aluminum stay-true head, used the Procrasher hardened shaft, and the MicroHeli swash and put it all together. The result is an absolutely slop free assembly, with perfect geometry. The pitch arms from the swash to the grips are straight up and down, right inline with the shaft so the phasing is perfect. There is virtually no twisting from swash to grips if you try and it is smooth as silk on the collective. I'm quite satisfied with this assembly now. For the next version I want to try the Heli-Worx V1 style head with these MicroHeli grips plus spacers. I don't think there will be any performance differences, it would essentially just be the pitch arms being guided externally via the teflon guide as opposed to these ones guided internally with the metal rod going though the slot in the link. |
03-23-2011, 08:48 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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So I moved on to flying the M120 around a bit lately with the stock walkera FBL head setup. I changed out the washout collar for the Microheli one and it is much better than the stock one. There still is slop in the assembly though after a bit of use and the whole thing just doesn't sit well with me. I then went back to do a few flights with my own fbl head setup on my other fbl machine and it is a night and day difference. Everything about it is just that much more precise and gives you a better feeling of being in control.
I recently upgraded my workshop with the addition of some milling equipment. I bought it, completely stripped it down to nuts and bolts, cleaned, hand scraped and smoothed, reassembled and adjusted. Very decent setup with little play in the gibs and minimal backlash. One of my first projects is to make a new fbl head setup for use on my M120. I am starting off with some basic geometries that I like from the stay-true head that I had modded as in the above post. I do like some of the features of the Heli-Worx style head and am going to incorporate some of those things as well. The nice thing is that I can make the head and shaft to size as needed. I reamed the main shaft hole in the head to 2mm and the main shaft is also a 2mm diameter. It fit so well that with a touch of oil on it, it felt like a piston when I inserted it, you could feel the air inside being compressed. I'll post some updates on what I end up with. I will start with drilling 2 holes through the centre at 90deg to each other so I can install a 1mm rod though it like I did in my other setup and use the 4G6 links. As a second option I can then make a phase block like the Heli-Worx style to slip on the head and use the V120 links guided by the block. |
03-23-2011, 10:12 AM | #15 (permalink) |
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Nice machines there snemi, you can probably make just about any part you want I would think.
As for FBL heads you forgot option #5 I can use the stock head,grips,stock length mainshaft and swash with my FBL head. This one drops right in without even having to adjust the links, it also has absolutely zero slop in the linkages because of my stablizer combined with the elastic band mod which removes all slop in the ball links. My heli flys like it's on rails now. Another thing to consider is that the 2610V Rx is made to work with the smaller V120 swash and grips. Using a converted 4G6 head isn't the way to go here. It's clean simple, easy to make for a couple bucks and works extremely well. This is by far the best design I've seen. If you think the expensive German version works any better I have some news for you...They do the exact same thing but mine uses all the stock parts and I can make them for 2 bucks, so can you. The german ones also have problems with the delrin piece slipping around or not being machined correctly and you also have to use one of their mainshafts if you want everything to fit correctly. I also like how the original parts look. Last edited by chevell; 03-23-2011 at 07:07 PM.. |
03-23-2011, 08:36 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
When I was doing my microbeast setup, there is a very crucial step where you setup the control geometry. You have to move the cyclic to 6deg and the controller measures the resolution of the setup. This step gives many people trouble on many helis right now that do not have ideal geometry for fbl operation, including the trex 250. I had no problems getting it right with my head setup. I do have a stock V120 head setup, and it does not perform nearly as well. |
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03-23-2011, 08:45 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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I got my new fbl head installed tonight and had a few flights on it. I'm very happy with the way it works, only some cosmetic changes to make it look nicer are all that remain.
I drilled 2 holes for double link alignment rods this time which guides the links a little better and reduces the play down even further. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FRc8tOkrww[/ame] |
03-25-2011, 12:18 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
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You really can't compare my stablizer to the stock set up, it's no comparison at all really, but unless you have tried it you really can't know for sure which one is better. Far as I'am concerned my stablizer with the stock Walkera parts is the best set up possible and also the easiest and least expensive to make. I know enough about the heliworx version to make that claim with confidence, mine is 2 bucks with complete reliability verses 60 bucks plus 15 for thier mainshaft which you have to use, and delrin pieces not machined correctly and slipping around are the common complaints. There is no advantage to using their head which is only a holder for the delrin piece. I'm not sure I see any advantage to having the grip links sticking out that far either, it's more wind resistance and those grips aren't even made for a FBL set up because they are the same as the 4G6 which was using the flybar. The 2610V Rx is'nt made to work with that type of set up but maybe the beastx likes it more, although I'm not convinced of that either. I also tried flipping my grips but my heli handled terrible after that, just didn't feel right to me at all, definately not with the 2610V. Anyway, your head looks good and you can probably adapt it to work with any set up you want just by making a couple other parts. |
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03-25-2011, 01:53 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
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??
The v2 head is only for the 46g grips. The v1 is only for v120 grips Heliworx heads have problems? Not in my experience and I have 4 birds with the v1 head. All have been perfect. Additionally, you don't have to use their shaft to use a heliworx head. On a v120, It's better to use anybody's 48mm shaft ( one from a 46g ) will do,but there are folks right here in this forum using it with the stock 57mm shaft. I have used it with heliworx shafts and 46g shafts. Works great in both cases. How much does your setup weigh? Not a big deal, but the v1 sure looks lighter. Is it worth the money? I sure think so, Your solution looks good too. I am sure it works fine. By the way, there is a guy and germany at has been making a follower from aluminum for months now, it is used with the stock head. It looks really sleek, and will be coming to market, he says. I'll look for the link and post it. Quote:
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03-27-2011, 09:00 AM | #20 (permalink) |
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my 4g6s's are for sale along with all spairs and a 2801 pro check it out here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413458
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