Which setup should I choose ?

[DaveGahan]

Hey, guys !

It's not definitive but I'm pretty sure that I will build a 7HV at the end of this month

I've read a lot of good reports about the 7HV but - of course - there were some bad facts I had to read about, too. Mostly the subject was about a tail problem but I think there is a lot of information on the web to handlle these issues and no heli is perfect !

After the Protos 500 this will be just my second heli. I've been really enjoying to move forward on the P500 since February when I made my first steps in this hobby. 180 flights later I'm into sport flying and just started to do inverted hovering, flying backwards and so on.

For having a backup if something bad happens to the P500 I will put a much bigger brother into the hangar. It will also give me the possibility to fly when it's really windy and I will enjoy the fact that it's much easier to see...

That was the story behind it... I would like to know, which setup of the following you would choose because I can not find a final decision. Each one has it's charme so it's not easy for me to decide. Most of you guys will know the situation that there is a limit of bucks you can spend on a new machine. So I'm not able to get all the high end components but have to choose what I really need or I really would profit from.

I don't like the scenario to spend 440 Euro on a JIVE 120 HV. It's only an ESC and costs tons of money! On the other side I would really prefer the clean setup. With the JIVE there should be no need to use a seperate BEC and that's really fine for me!

The other option would be to go for a HV setup. I would have to spend much more on the servos (don't really need them...) and would have to use an extra LIPO to power the electronics but would save a lot of money by getting a cheaper ESC like a Scorpion Commander 130A. I could even use the governor of the vBar...

I Think using a seperate BEC (Hercules Super BEC) is not the way I really want to go. The Scorpion would be 240 Euro and the Hercules BEC 100 Euro. There is a gap of 100 Euro to the JIVE 120 and I would this prefer over the seperate BEC solution...

The machine should be able to be flown with higher headspeeds and capable of the "full range of 3D figures" - just to grow on. I like the pop of the blades so there should be "a bit of power"...
And it's important to me that the total weight will be lower than 5 kg. This is the limit in Germany if you're not flying on a club's airfield but somewhere in the nature where you want to (field, ...)

The following components will definitive be used and should not be part of the discussion:

• Scorpion HK 4035-530 V3
• vStabi Mini or Pro
• Gens Ace 4500mAh 25C

Setup 1 (JIVE) :

• JIVE 120 HV
• 3 x Savöx TG-1257 / 1 x Futaba BLS 251

Setup 2 (HV) :

• Scorpion Commander 130A
• 3 x MKS HBL 950 HV / 3 x MKS HBL 980 HV

Setup 3 (seperate BEC) :

• Scorpion Commander 130A
• Hercules Super BEC
• (3 x Savöx TG-1257 / 1 x Futaba BLS 251) or (3 x Futaba BLS 451 / 1 x Futaba BLS 251)

That's what I'm thinking about at the moment. Or are there any other suggestions?

Thanks for your support !

Greetings,
Oliver

[GimpyGolden]

Of all your choices with saving some bucks in mind I'd go
-Scorp HKIII 4035-560 (1000W more than 530)
-Scorp 130 OPTO w/ VB Gov
-Futaba 451 and 251 on direct LiFe 6.6V or 2S LiPo with step down for tail. 451's have been proven to run well on 2S LiPo
Full Size V-Bar, easier to wire Gov over Mini unless you run S-Bus Futaba.

Packs in 4000 range or around 600g each to get below 5Kg.



If money were no object I'd go HeliJive/Pyro combo, Mini V and still the Futaba servo's.

[Nelson Rodriguez]

if you go with Bls451 you can use the bec from the Jive, savox are very good servos to, if you want to run the v-bar gov and save money is a good route to, the gov in the v-bar works as good or better than kontroniks, hobbywing 120HV for the price is good choice to run the v-bar gov.

I was beating my 7HV last weekend without tail problems, 4500mAh works really good, the heli is very light and the feel that give you is just amazing even at low headspeed, I try it today running 35% on my jive and I'm just impress with the performance, no wobbles on the head.

the setup that I'm running is:
4035-560 13T
Heli Jive 120HV
Hercules Super BEC 8.4V
MKS HBL950-980
mini V-bar 5.2
4500mAh 65C packs (Heavy packs 835G each one)

here is a video of my third flight with the 7HV adjusting the v-bar, running 62% on the jive

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TLTJiOWSkY[/ame]

[Stolla]

fusionhawk 120 with vbar gov, we run monster handwinds on them, no problems, never saw or heard of one failing. forget about the scorpion esc, for that matter castle, yes some people use them, and swear by them but reading about all the total failures inc bec I won't touch them. Jive I have many, they are reliable and protects your machine but expensive. Wr bec fit 451 and 251 good choices. Motor bang for buck, cool running mx 750 , power 4525 le, quantum 4530 . Bec wr , but seen a couple fail lately which is concerning, seems older ones were more reliable.

[kenny.c]

"Fusionhawk 120 with vbar gov" same here....its been totally perfect from day 1.....and the Fusion is a great price....

Ken

[Rob43]

I say there is one question you must ask yourself: do you want to run several headspeeds on one pinion? Then get a Jive. Simple as that. The FusionHawk is tough, as Stolla can attest, but it's not intended to permit running at anything from 25 to 65 percent throttle. Jive does it and does it rather well as Nelson can attest. Mine has been handling 200 amp peaks without getting hot in the summer heat wave. I knew when I bought it I wouldn't have to regret it. The cost starts to be a non issue when you begin to go through packs on your bird after a couple of seasons of flying. You won't be wrenching on it, or be concerned about capacitor failures. You will have simply enjoyed a very simple reliable power system. I know the YGE can boast high reliability and performance too, but does not include the BEC.

[Stolla]

I agree if you want to fly very low to very high nothing beats jive, yge from all indication hasn't got an efficient freewheel and off course no bec. But if you want to fly hard and aggressive id say hawk may be the better option because of the aggressive nature of vbar gov, on strong motors however it places a lot more stress on components so keep that in mind. Also obviously more clutter on machine vs jive clean install. That being said I'm of opinion we pay way too much for esc's and whether you like it or not looking at how the chinamans can make the yge clone for 90$ makes you think, are they the ripoff artists or are we being ripped off! let's not get into that discussion here please suffice to say many pilots here use them and from all indication they work as well as the real mcoy, voice your opinion on this on the yge clone thread rather as we don't want this to turn into another of those!
At least with jive paying too much protects my machine but if I have to take my chances it will be hawk

[j2m]

Completely agree with Stolla and another vote here for the FusionHawk 120 unless you insist on a super-wide RPM range. I have two examples fitted to a 7HV and Rex 700 running multispeed setups with no issues. Not in the 25-65% throttle range as someone suggested but running headspeeds between 1650 and 2050 which gives a very nice range of choices of handling/performance and duration. Probably more than adequate for most people

[DaveGahan]

Hey, guys !

First of all thank you very much for all those setup suggestions!
That helps me very much

I'm sorry for the delay but there wasn't much time during the last days. It's nice to read about the different meanings and hear about the range of experiences you all have made with this type of setup.

Most interesting to me is the fact that a lot of you guys recommend the Fusion 120A which is by far the cheapest ESC. I've read a lot about this one in several threads but could never imagine using one in a (expensive) 700 size heli. I think it's all about the well known (wrong ?) meaning "If it doesn't cost a lot, it can not be good"...

I would like to go this way because it seems to work perfectly in combination with the vStabi but it's not really on the line with my imagination of a clear design. For me it would be really nice if there were as less cables, soldering joints and parts as possible. Using the Fusion Hawk 120A (and all other than the JIVE) would mean that I would have to use an external BEC and a phase sensor...

I think the Fusion would fit my needs when it comes to the range of possible RPM's. I would like to fly slow 3D and hard 3D (when I will be able to do...) but nothing special. Values between 1600 and 2100 should be fine. So that shouldn't be a problem...

It's really a difficult decision. The Fusion + Hercules Super BEC would save 200 Euro compared to the JIVE 120 HV but when it comes to the wiring the complexity would be higher...

What do you think about the last sentence (complexity) ?

Greetings,
Oliver

[Stolla]

complexity is not a problem, yes its not as clean an install as jive but wiring the phase sensor in with motor/esc cables and bec with battery cables is not a complex issue do don't let that scare you. 200€ is a lot of money to save on an esc and especially so since you have no guarantees on any esc that it will live forever. Myself I have many jives and as far esc's go they're very good but they are way overpriced let's not kid ourselves. Suffice to say my eyes have seen alternatives!

[Mr Nice Guy]

If you want to use Savox servos use the 1258s not the 1257s. The torque rating on the 1258s are good for a 700 where the 1257s are more suited for a 600 size.

[DaveGahan]

Hi !

Ooohhh yeah.. The more answers I get the more I feel confused...
But I think that's absolutely normal...

So far so good. There seem to be a lot of guys "loving" the Fusion 120A and - of course - the JIVE 120 HV. I think I will go for one of these... In case of the Fusion I will have to think about an external ESC (Hercules Super BEC) or a seperate LiPo/LiFe battery. Is there enough room for this so that I could do a clean wiring job?

When it comes to the FBL unit I choosed the vBar because I wanted to experience something new (use a BeastX in my Protos 500). I really like this unit but I hate the need of a seperate receiver because one can only connect one Spectrum satellite to it, but the 7200BX has landed some months ago...

What do you guys think about this unit? If I would go for the JIVE there would be no need for the gov of the vBar. Would it be worth the money in my case or should I save the money and go for the 7200BX - even if there were no new experiences... ?

One of you throw in the Pyro 700-52. Where are the benefits compared to the Scorpion motor? As far as I can see it has a bit less power but should run cooler. Some people say they are louder (higher frequency)... ?

The servo combo I will use is fix: Savöx SC 1258 TG / Futaba BLS 251

Thanks !

Greetings,
Oliver

[Mr Nice Guy]

The Pyro will run cooler than the Scorpion and is more efficient. If you want a lot of power at a reasonable price the Quantum 4530 is a monster. I have flown Scorpion 4035-560, Hacker Turnado, Pyro 700-45, and the Quantum is my favorite. The Pyro is very efficient and runs very cool but lacks the sheer power of the Quantum.

[Nelson Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by DaveGahan

When it comes to the FBL unit I choosed the vBar because I wanted to experience something new (use a BeastX in my Protos 500). What do you guys think about this unit?

I ben trying close to all units on the market, cgy750, beastx and many others but I love my v-bar.

Why?

one of the features that I enjoy using is the bank switching, all you need to do is assign a switch on yout TX to choose different fly feels.

Example:

let's say that I want to run 1600HS but I want my heli to feel very lock-in and no very agressive to have a smooth fly, so in my bank #1 on the vbar I select my feel to very presicce and the agility arround 70-80% (numbers are just a examples)

but if I want to smack using the same headspeed at middle of the fly, I just flip the switch to bank #2 on my TX and my feel change to vivid + I increase my paddle simulation to 40%, my agility to 110-120% and my heli is going to react on center stick way faster and be very agile running the same headspeed.

Last weekend I was talking to one of my friends about the v-bar governor, I believe he tack (Mr Nice Guy) 7HV running the v-bar governor he told me that he was very impress just 10 RPM, I believe I'm going to give the gov feature a try

the unit is very easy to setup, allow you to level you swash on high, low or center stick, I feel very connected to the unit, if I have a vibration problem the unit has a feature that show you how bad is it and where can be.

here is a video of MrMel talking more about the bank switching feature.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMCZZsq7bP4[/ame]

[Stolla]

THIS my take on it, first if you want to run fusion yes go for vbar as you need the gov, otherwise I have very good experience of beast in my tdr's which had vbars on before, beast is more stable at high speed. Also you can set up beast to do similar thing to banks as you set tail gain on tx with different gains at different speeds, furthermore you can have different dual rates on different banks to simulate agility. As for motors I wouldn't buy stock scorpion, way overpriced for a multistrand motor with average quality, no fan runs hot, the le motors are a different story, yes still runs hot but has single wire strong performance so you live with the heat. Quantum is a nice motor but my vote would go in favour of the ultimate 4525 le due to yy single wire wind vs d multistrand on quantum, esc's can handle higher amps with yy. I have pyro,quantum, align mx, scorpions, now all rewinded in yy, in the end the bigger motor will always have most power but you pay for it in weight, it can be reasoned a heavier motor carries its own weight which is true to an extent, however it can still be felt on a3d machine. If you want to do a good value setup don't underestimate the mx750 it will have similar power to normal 4035 but way cheaper and runs cool with pyro fan, all out grunt le scorpion, light and nimble good power mx750 or pyro, which is still best quality of all, Quantum too expensive for multistrand motor but good quality, some issues with mag spacing however. So now youre more confused, don't be, either go for light and nimble,i.e jive,pyro or mx, or power,le, hawk, le ultimate vbar gov.

[Mr Nice Guy]

Originally Posted by Nelson Rodriguez

Last weekend I was talking to one of my friends about the v-bar governor, I believe he tack (Mr Nice Guy) 7HV running the v-bar governor he told me that he was very impress just 10%, I believe I'm going to give the gov feature a try

Nelson, Gary said it was about 10 RPM when he tached it not 10%. Even better huh? Vbar governor is simply amazing

[BonewJunior]

...

[Nelson Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy

Nelson, Gary said it was about 10 RPM when he tached it not 10%. Even better huh? Vbar governor is simply amazing

Ohhh yeah, that is right

[DaveGahan]

Hi !

I have to say that I got a bit more confused with the last posts but there was also a lot of good information with great value for me and it made it much clearer at the same time!
Thanks, guys !

I allways thought that a Scorpion motor is a fine product and that it would be woth the 240 Euro I had to pay here in Germany for it. I started with the whole thing 6 months ago so my knowledge about the design of brushless motors for example is limited. My Protos 500 (180 flights now) is powered by one (stock 3026-880kv) and I saw that a lot of pilots use Scorpion motors in a wide range of helis from 450 to 700 class. That's why I wanted to go for the 4035 even if I've learned that they come in VERY hot in the summer. Sometimes I think my P500 gets on fire...

I didn't think about using an Align motor in the 7HV - but why not ? They copy the Compass products so they should be very compatibel to each other !
Not, just a joke. That seems to be another fine option! Is it pretty equal to the Scorpion motors when it comes to quality? That would be great because it's much cheaper !
What are the pros of the Pyros over the Scorpions and Aligns?

Up to now I see the following scenarios which are all under 2000 Euro:

1) "Best bang for the buck" :
- Fusion Hawk 120A, Align MX750, Hercules Super BEC, vBar -> ca. 1750 Euro

2) "Get in touch with vBar and JIVE" :
- JIVE 120 HV, Align MX750, vBar -> ca. 1950 Euro

3) "Fall in love with overpriced Kontronik" :
- JIVE 120 HV, Pyro 700-52, AR7200BX -> ca, 1950 Euro

4) "Special ltd. borderline edition" :
- JIVE 120 HV, Align MX750, AR7200BX -> 1800-1850 Euro

INFO: All with Savöx SC 1258 TG / Futaba BLS 251 / ??? Blades for ca. 100 Euro

Now that I've written this and thought about it in depth I hope there will be the phase where one find the best solution very, very soon...

What do you think about exactly these 4 combos ?

THANKS to you all

Greetings,
Oliver

[Nelson Rodriguez]

I recomend you if you are going to use the align motor go with the vbar gov, to run align motors with Jive esc governor you need to run KSA mode and this one reduce 10% of the power on your motor.

When you run a pyro or scorpion 4035 without the KSA mode the difference is just huge.