TDR speed fuselage project

[Alekoy]

No, I mean the angle between vertical and the "vertical" parts (like the main mast) when looking at the heli from the rear, while hovering.... (hard to explain, might need to do a sketch in paint)

This angle is the result of the tail pushing against the torque from the main rotor, the larger the distance between the main rotor-disc and the centre of the tail rotor, the larger the momentum, and the angle increases as a result....

Think of the tail rotor on a Apache, it is kicked up at the rear to minimize the sideways lean (and to minimize noise from the propwash hitting the tail rotor, but that is not relevant in this case)

[mkovalcson]

I think in FFFF that effect is a lot less.

[donskills]

Wow Alekoy! probably quite difficult to get that angle with precision!! Are you thinking of adapting a fuse shape to take that angle into consideration? Without scientific back up, I feel Mark is correct in his statement in that it probably won't impact top speed significantly but what do I know?
I have been fine tuning the shape of the bent fuse and I must admit it gets closer and closer to the speed Banshee for every measure i take. I had initially wanted to reduce the side profile to be less affected by side winds but the rear of the fuse has to be widened (looking from the side) in order to streamline it for FFFF.
Pics coming shortly! I have been busy modeling Yoda for a work project and I can tell you, when I finish doing his head I would have mastered complex modeling!!

[mkovalcson]

A flying Yoda heli ?

[donskills]

That would be hilarious!! We can use the file and make a Yoda canopy!! I am to produce a yoda figure about 140cm tall!! The wrinkled little dude is giving me major head ache!!

[Alekoy]

No, I was actually just worried about that angle if one decide to move the tail further down...

[donskills]

Originally Posted by Alekoy

No, I was actually just worried about that angle if one decide to move the tail further down...

Interesting!! I have never even given that a thought!!

[Mixmaster Pilot]

Originally Posted by Alekoy

No, I was actually just worried about that angle if one decide to move the tail further down...

It's not an issue in FFF. The coupling that causes the lean is a result of the tail fighting the motor. In FFF you have a very strong weather vane effect that isn't present in hovering. This results in far less anti-torque from the tail and hence far less roll.

The weather vane effect in FFFF also means you run the tail in rate mode (to streamline the heli) and can run smaller tail blades.

[Alekoy]

You do have a point there.
In FFF you get new forces trying to roll the heli, due to the the blade that moving forwards has got more speed thru the air than the blade going backwards, so the lift is improved one one side and reduced on the other...

[Mixmaster Pilot]

Originally Posted by Alekoy

You do have a point there.
In FFF you get new forces trying to roll the heli, due to the the blade that moving forwards has got more speed thru the air than the blade going backwards, so the lift is improved one one side and reduced on the other...

Which is called "dissymmetry of lift". Even the rigid heads on R/C heli's have some "flapping to equality" going on (blades will always flex). So the advancing blade flaps up, and decreases angle of attack creating less lift, while the retreating blade flaps down creating more lift.

[donskills]

A few pics of what I have been up to. A compromise between too large a side profile and forward streamline are my considerations right now. Should I sharpen the main (front) fuse like the speed Banshee also?

[F1 Rocket]

Looking better all the time. I'd sharpen/narrow the underside of the forward canopy. Too flat a profile in this area will generate lift which will make the fuselage pitch up. Another thought.....the angle of the forward pack looks (IMO) too steep. If you split the difference between your new location and the original location it would move the top of the canopy further away from the rotor disk, reducing the amount of airflow interference. The packs could mount on an angled tray and remain in a single stick configuration, making them easier to service. An added benefit is the forward canopy would have a more balanced appearance.

Danny

[mkovalcson]

Do you think it might make sense to taper the boom cover before reaching the tail rotor?

It looks like the Tail rotor has a wall next to it now. I would think that would dramatically lower the effeciency of the tail rotor and possibly make it harder to control as well as requiring longer blades to get around it.

[mkovalcson]

With regard to the flat bottom we really need to look at this closely.

If there is any air forced down over the canopy towards that flat spot it will generate a vacuum at the bottom and actually pull the heli down.

And if you start from a dive and then end up at let's say 30 degrees then there shouldn't be any lift.

However, if you started from level and work your way into an AOA gradually then the canopy would generate lift that would decrease as you reached your AOA.

Unfortunately with the dynamics of this, I would think it "could" potentially help the pilot get the heli into a good AOA or it could cause serious porpoising issues.

I have to agree that a tear drop is the best profile from the top through front angles.

[mkovalcson]

I like this idea better

We just utilize a warp field which amplifies the speed the heli is going in
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2011016932.pdf

That should only set the project back a few bucks

I'm sure picking up warp field theory and mechanics is something we can do in our spare time.

The last page of that PDF file shows the final form we want for our canopy

[rdarby777]

I hate to break it to you mark but skookum already has a port on their sk720 for the warp drive...they said it should be available shortly...lol
Interesting read though

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by rdarby777

I hate to break it to you mark but skookum already has a port on their sk720 for the warp drive...they said it should be available shortly...lol
Interesting read though

By IRCHA next year right

[viberuss]

This is looking great i would love to get one for my tdr
Are you going to make and sell these fuses.if so when do u think they would be avilable and what price would u be looking for.

[helicraze]

There is another thread regarding that

[friedersta]

Hi,
I´m new here, age 66, Henseleit-Team-Pilot, PPL-H Owner since 3 Years.

The shape of a fuselage for the TDR is depending on the purpose, you will use it for:

1) Speed-Flights from outer space down to earth, catching the TDR in the right moment to fly horizontally - let´s call it "Cowboy-Stephan-Segerer-Style". When we started these kind of flights, checking with RADAR, Stephan Segerer flew with a completely normal TDR with a 700/52 Pyro, Jive 120+ HV, and the old FAI-Radix-blades, he rented them from me, and he reached 266 km/h !!! I tell You ALL:
For this speed-style, it´s only the pilot.

2) The FAI-WR-Speed-Contest:
A completely other discussion, You have to fly between 5 and 20 m height for 100 meters, and then the measured distance of 200 meters. Here the WR is held by BANSHEE!
Here power and drag become very important.


Wait and see, there will be definitely something completely new (revolutionary like the TDR a few Years ago) from Jan Henseleit!!!!!

So You all can stop Your work, the "new" Henseleit will be unbeatable!

Friedrich (christmas cookies baking at Sunday, 2.12.2012)