Advice on teaching others

[azriel45]

Over the last week, I've had three different people approach me about wanting to get into the hobby.
One is a coworker that has been looking for a hobby and knows that I fly. He's been asking quite a bit of questions during breaks at work and has now expressed interest in getting a trainer with the condition that he'd like me to help him learn.
One is my best friend of about 18 years.I've tried, rather unsuccessfully, for about 4 years now to get him to join me in my little heli addiction. His wife has always been the reason that he chose not to. She sent me a video earlier in the week of him hovering a little airhogs 360 (the one that is supposed to be a 4 channel) in their living room with the caption of "okay, you win.".
The last one is my girlfriend. (I get bragging rights for this, right?) I came home last night to find her playing on my sim. She expressed that it was a large amount of fun and she understands why I fly now. She asked at dinner last night if I would be willing to teach her how to fly and possibly to help her buy/build her first heli.

All that being said, I'm no where near a good pilot. A competent pilot, yes. I've managed to get to wear I fly more than I crash and I can keep a bird in the air pretty consistently. To my knowledge there is no heli club anywhere near us, only a few planker clubs.
I'm thinking of cleaning up my old 450, getting it flight worthy and picking up a cheap radio, possibly a dx6i for the purpose of buddy box flying. I will, of course, have them all practice in a sim quite a bit before letting them spool up the real thing.

The coworker is thinking of just going ahead and buying his first heli, probably a 500 size machine. The other two would be reliant on my birds for the time being.

So, I guess, my question in this, is does anyone have any advice or comments about this situation? I've never taught anyone before, nor have I ever had the chance to fly around others. This is all going to be quite a new experience, and I'd like to not screw it up.

[boogie12]

I personally would take a shot at teaching them how to fly even if you feel that you are not the best pilot to learn from the fact is you are able to fly so you have something to offer a newb getting into the hobby.

I taught my 14 year old nephew how to fly a few months ago by first getting him on the sim to get familiar with the controls and how they work and second getting him to fly a micro heli to get some real world experience with the heli. The way I see it is if he can handle a twitchy micro then he will be able to handle a 450 or bigger later down the road. The good thing about flying micro helis is when flown over grass and crashed they can normally be picked up and flown right away. I personally would not try to teach anyone on a 450 heli even with a buddy box 450's can be a little dangerous but also are kind of on the expensive side when repairing them compared to a decent micro heli.

[JasonJ]

Don't teach your girlfriend. It almost never ends well so don't go there. It's like brussel sprouts, seems like a good idea until you start. As for the others, do you feel like you have the time to dedicate to teaching multiple people? Do you have any background in teaching anything? Not everyone is good at teaching regardless of skill level in the subject matter so figure that out first. My recommendation: point them in a good direction if you don't have the teaching skill or the time/energy/commitment. I can tell you I won't teach anyone this hobby and I have years of military and civilian teaching experience. I don't have the time to commit and it isn't fair to the potential students. I see it at the field a lot, someone tells someone else they will teach them to fly (usually airplanes) and the poor guy shows up and the "teacher" either doesn't show or spends all the time flying his own stuff. Just isn't right so just spare everyone the heartache and don't do it unless you are 100% committed to seein it through.

[rdlohr]

I treat this less like teaching and more like guiding them in a direction where they have the best chance of succeeding.

I'd tell them each to get a Blade Nano QX and get them into the hobby for $90.
Have them work on hovering in place, orientations, circuits and figure 8s. (Indoors)

If they still want to go further, have them get a sim and and Blade mCPX.
Have them work on hovering in place, orientations, circuits and figure 8s. (Outdoors)
Introduce them to Helifreak.

If they still want to go further, they are ready to safely fly most anything but I would probably start them on 450 size. A Blade 450X is a pretty good option. If they are interested in building, better yet, any 450 or 500 size heli.

After that, they will not need your guidance anymore if they are still interested.

Rick


Note1: I used to send people directly to the mCPX but I don't now because the frustration/reward ratio is too high for many newbies. With a Nano QX or a coaxial, they are able to learn basic flight control (reward) without as much frustration.

Note2: I don't send people straight to larger more stable helis because it is safer and cheaper to take advantage of todays stable low end helis that just were not an option in the past.

[Coco66]

Just absolutely avoid your coworker gets a 500 as his first heli. No way.

[ArmchairNinja]

I taught myself to fly this Summer using the RCHelicopterFun.com videos. I personally would point anyone interested in learning at those. That will keep you clear of any blame when that inevitable first crash occurs.

You *should* definitely answer questions, help with radio setup, diagnose vibration problems, offer to hang out with them at the field, encourage patience, enforce safe practices, and generally be supportive.

You definitely have a great opportunity to bring new people into our world!

[audacity]

Originally Posted by Coco66

Just absolutely avoid your coworker gets a 500 as his first heli. No way.

+1 that's a serious machine to crash. It's the one in my lineup that I think I would rather have an incident with one of the goblins. I think sims and a dx6i is a step one. And maybe step 1.1 would be one of those nano quads. Step 2 would be a nano cp. I realize you may have been looking at blade's site seeing the nano cpx and 5003d are in the same "advanced" series. Even if you have a ton of money to spend on learning or a kid that doesn't care? Down time is a large factor either way. Being able to pick it up and fly again is huge for many reasons.

Good luck and very cool ya got some new people to join the hobby.
Cheers




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - sorry for typos!!!

[K2Freak]

I learned before there were sims. I see them as good learning tools, but I also believe that hands-on experience with training gear is invaluable. I believe in learning to take off and hover both tail in (first) and then nose in with training gear.

If you follow this kind of path, then it is largely a self training experience.

[TheQuixote]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

...I'd tell them each to get a Blade Nano QX and get them into the hobby for $90.
Have them work on hovering in place, orientations, circuits and figure 8s. (Indoors)

If they still want to go further, have them get a sim and and Blade mCPX.
Have them work on hovering in place, orientations, circuits and figure 8s. (Outdoors)
Introduce them to Helifreak....

Everything I've been reading points to the Nano QX as the best method to get people started. You can get them set up on one with a DX6i fairly cheap. Let them just play with it in "CoAx" mode until they get bored. Then you can introduce them in agility mode and start to emphasize the importance of orientations and structured training.

mCP X BL or trex 150 after that. Nothing beats these micros for learning. You get so much more stick time and I really think there is no good reason to risk flying on anything larger until upright orientations and FFF are rock solid on the micro.

[scolist]

I read way more than I post, so here are my thoughts on the topic.

Terminology.
We have to learn it. In the first post the terms Collective Pitch, and CP's are used. To a newbie that means nothing. We could go on and on about that.

Buying your first heli.

Buying new?
Don't get something you have to build from scratch. Get something small and inexpensive, that comes with a transmitter for that model.

Buying used?
When they say it flies great, and includes many spare parts. Find out if those "spare parts" are new. If not, consider those parts junk, and don't pay for them. Ask if you'll get your money back if the item(s) aren't what's listed in the ad. This scenario will be different if your buying from a friend, and/or, someone who will show you that the heli does fly, and may be willing to teach you how to fly it.

Safety!
This can't be stressed enough. Warn a newbie that these things can seriously hurt or kill you. YouTube has a great collection of heli injuries. Do you have a place to fly? There are some serious safety issues that have to be addressed before you go fly in a public park with people around. Or anywhere for that matter.


I hope someone will expand on these issues.

Scott

[PetJumper]

Originally Posted by azriel45

Over the last week, I've had three different people approach me about wanting to get into the hobby. ... This is all going to be quite a new experience, and I'd like to not screw it up.

Be careful! As soon as you take charge you are responsible for whatever happens. I am not talking legal, I am talking life.

So, try to find out for yourself what you want to achieve, and what is in it for you. Is it worth it?
Teaching my wife of 15 years to sail almost ruined our relationship. Would I teach her how to fly rc helis? NEVER EVER!

My friend? It depends on our relationship, on the personalities involved, on so many aspects. The answer is most probably. NO! It'll become too complicated too soon.

A coworker? Why? Am I a professional rc heli teacher? No. So how can this work? It won't!

If you feel you need to teach other people anything in order to gain respect or feel valuable, make it your professional carreer. If not, KEEP OFF!

Originally Posted by JasonJ

Don't teach your girlfriend. It almost never ends well so don't go there. It's like brussel sprouts, seems like a good idea until you start. As for the others, do you feel like you have the time to dedicate to teaching multiple people? Do you have any background in teaching anything? Not everyone is good at teaching regardless of skill level in the subject matter so figure that out first. My recommendation: point them in a good direction if you don't have the teaching skill or the time/energy/commitment. I can tell you I won't teach anyone this hobby and I have years of military and civilian teaching experience. I don't have the time to commit and it isn't fair to the potential students. I see it at the field a lot, someone tells someone else they will teach them to fly (usually airplanes) and the poor guy shows up and the "teacher" either doesn't show or spends all the time flying his own stuff. Just isn't right so just spare everyone the heartache and don't do it unless you are 100% committed to seein it through.

Yessir! Fully agreed!

[azriel45]

Wow guys. Thanks so much for the rather eye opening opinions.
If, and this is now a big IF, I do decide to go through with helping any of them learn, the first thing I will do is have a very long discussion about safety. I was planning to do this already, but more so now that I've read what you've all had to say.

I didn't really consider how damaging to our relationship me trying to teach her to fly could be. She's always been very supportive of the hobby and very interested, but this is the first time she's expressed an interest in learning. Thinking about it now though, I can see where we could have problems with her trying to learn anything from me.

thanks for all the feedback

[RogerRabit]

Originally Posted by PetJumper

Be careful! As soon as you take charge you are responsible for whatever happens. I am not talking legal, I am talking life.

So, try to find out for yourself what you want to achieve, and what is in it for you. Is it worth it?
Teaching my wife of 15 years to sail almost ruined our relationship. Would I teach her how to fly rc helis? NEVER EVER!

My friend? It depends on our relationship, on the personalities involved, on so many aspects. The answer is most probably. NO! It'll become too complicated too soon.

A coworker? Why? Am I a professional rc heli teacher? No. So how can this work? It won't!

If you feel you need to teach other people anything in order to gain respect or feel valuable, make it your professional carreer. If not, KEEP OFF!


Yessir! Fully agreed!

+1

On every word.

If you want someone as a buddy stick to those who learn themselves.

I teach sometimes but i have been to a flying school and got some teachers education.
I did that just for the fun in it, and i tell you, if flying is difficult, teaching is hell.

You have to be two steps ahead and talk while monitoring and lecturing the person.
It is not simple buddyboxing.

You have to teach them starting and landing, nose in, e.g.
Even on a normal start dozends of things can go wrong, especially on FBLs.

You have a minimum of reaction time because of the tendency of pupils that steer wrong to accelerate the wrong steering to correct it.
You are 20 cm from the ground with the blades of a typical 700 on take off.

How do you want to teach them to land?


If i may suggest something, buy a SIM and a Beamer and make a party with them where you put up some contest (who can hover for 5 seconds?) e.g. Or (who can hover more than 10 seconds after 10 beer)

That might get them addicted without you growing gray hairs.

[azriel45]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

+1

On every word.

If you want someone as a buddy stick to those who learn themselves.

I teach sometimes but i have been to a flying school and got some teachers education.
I did that just for the fun in it, and i tell you, if flying is difficult, teaching is hell.

You have to be two steps ahead and talk while monitoring and lecturing the person.
It is not simple buddyboxing.

You have to teach them starting and landing, nose in, e.g.
Even on a normal start dozends of things can go wrong, especially on FBLs.

You have a minimum of reaction time because of the tendency of pupils that steer wrong to accelerate the wrong steering to correct it.
You are 20 cm from the ground with the blades of a typical 700 on take off.

How do you want to teach them to land?


If i may suggest something, buy a SIM and a Beamer and make a party with them where you put up some contest (who can hover for 5 seconds?) e.g. Or (who can hover more than 10 seconds after 10 beer)

That might get them addicted without you growing gray hairs.

I really like the idea of turning the sim into a party game, that sounds like a lot of fun even if none of the people involved decided to take up the hobby.

At this point, I don't know how I will talk my girlfriend out of the hobby. I'm at work and she's sent me multiple texts today telling me that she has been practicing hovering on the sim.

ArmChairNinja mentioned being there to help and answer questions, but not directly teaching. I think that may be the best approach.

[K2Freak]

All great thoughts. Sounds like training gear is sort of a thing of the past?

I call semi on not teaching your girlfriend. I taught my wife how to snow ski without any problems at all (so anything is possible! ). That will simply come down to your relationship and whether you think it can work out. None of us can tell you that.

I love how much thought is going into this...

[Kenny_Fong]

The situation is not so good, but the enthusiasm is the most important.
Without an experienced pilot's help or a club, it's a little hard to get a start and even move fast.
But never minds, just keep going and find joy in this great hobby.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by azriel45

...
At this point, I don't know how I will talk my girlfriend out of the hobby. I'm at work and she's sent me multiple texts today telling me that she has been practicing hovering on the sim.
...

Don't talk her out of it, but don't formally "teach" her either. Let her enjoy it, encourage her and assist ONLY WHEN SHE ASKS FOR IT. Be prepared to let her make her own progress (and mistakes).

Her goals and what she gets out this hobby may be very different to what you get out of it. You may go in the same direction. You may not. You may like building/fine tuning, she may like 3D aerobatics or FPV.

Just remember to celebrate each achievement. Talk about what she wants to do and help her find information on how to do it. Let her follow her desires to do with the hobby what she wants. (LittleHammer05 comes to mind).

The main caution is that this can easily get competitive. ie. you learn quicker than I do, or how can I do a piro-flip too (when all they cannot yet fly inverted).

My wife and I do different activities because I tend to study/analyse/dissect the base principals then rigorously train and then appear to learn very fast. She has fun with it, but when she sees I get leaps ahead in skill it disheartens her (even though we are not competing). It would be like we start tail-in hovering at the same time, 6 months later I am doing inverted sideways circles and she is doing lazy 8s and struggling with consistent loops and rolls.

[audacity]

Originally Posted by K2Freak

All great thoughts. Sounds like training gear is sort of a thing of the past?

I call semi on not teaching your girlfriend. I taught my wife how to snow ski without any problems at all (so anything is possible! ). That will simply come down to your relationship and whether you think it can work out. None of us can tell you that.

I love how much thought is going into this...

I agree.
With today's sims, micros, programable radios, and great FBL controllers; yes training gear is a thing of the past. With training gear on, it's harder for the pilot to see the small inputs necessary for talking off. With them, it teaches bad habits. Just like training wheels on a bike teaches exactly how to not ride a bike!!!

While I would go the direction of the quad. I would not hesitate to get a 4ch coaxial. It will teach orientation if nothing else and a chance to do that off of the sim, keeping the level of fun up!!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - sorry for typos!!!

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by audacity

keeping the level of fun up!!!

[FailureToFly]

I think it'll be pretty easy.

Guide rather than teach.

Advise rather than command.

Suggest (strongly - only on this point) that they do not start with any large helis (due to the potential of nasty injuries) and to get straight off the bat a sim like Phoenix with a cheap/decent DX6i. Maybe the nano thing if they want immediate enjoyment (I'd skip the micros personally if they do take to the sim).

Talk about learning to hover and turning to face yourself (orientation training) etc and let them see if they like the hobby.

Do be honest and say it can take a few years of solid practice to get 'good' even though we've all seen 7 year olds doing piro flips on the deck in 9 months.

Don't worry about teaching your GF. If you are relaxed and help but don't force/interfere/cajole etc it's then up to her. You support and help advise/repair etc but don't worry if she doesn't end up taking it up or differs in her opinion that you do. Go with the flow.

This hobby is unfortunately 80% sim time and then a decent slug of spanner time too for builds, repairs and maintenance. People have to be prepared to spend up decently big and waste a decent chunk of their free time to learn to fly model helis. It's a tough task master too.

I really enjoy flying though I'm not 100% sure how much I'd personally encourage people to jump into it. I think it needs a certain type of personally myself to keep at it. Quads etc will IMHO become much more common/accepted than 3D helis.

...

In regards to questions, this could be seen as a sort of fictitious though still fairly realistic 'sales pitch'... (at least from my perspective!)

'Wow, they really look like fun.'

'Yeah they are great fun; I really enjoy flying them'

'Are they expensive?'

'Yeah, they can be quite expensive as there is quite a bit of ancillary gear that goes with them. An individual heli can cost from one to three thousand dollars. This little heli here (450) is about a grand.'

'Wow, what happens if you crash?'

'You get so see a grown man kind of cry inside and we then add up the bill.'

'So you can repair them?'

'Oh, definitely though they can cost from $50 to $1,500 to repair depending on size. The large helis can be totally destroyed in a crash; that could be three thousand dollars of gear.'

'Yikes! Does it take long to learn to fly like you do?

'I spend about 1 hour a day on a simulator and it takes about 5 years to get really good at them. You need to keep at the sim thing for the whole time to learn all the cool tricks. I'm only intermediate and are heading towards 2 years. It's akin to learning a more simple musical instrument and requires lots of practice.'

'Are they reliable?'

'Very though about once or twice a year something will fail and it'll crash by itself.'

'Oh. Can you fly them anywhere?'

'With the small ones yes but the big ones you need to join clubs that frequently have politics that are anti heli as we fly these crazy tricks all the time and the plane guys don't really like or get it. You can't safely fly any heli over a micro at a public park as even a 450 will badly injure or even kill a child. There is no insurance outside of clubs either so you do it at your own risk. The large helis can easily kill someone so they are extremely dangerous if they are not flown conservatively and go out of control.'

'Do they often go out of control?'

'They do if you are learning and make a mistake. Anytime you crash it's because it's out of control. I've crashed about 20 times with about 7 crashes being failures/freak accidents. It's a hobby that one little mistake can wreck the heli; it punishes you badly if you fly outside your ability.'

'Is there much to learn?'

'You need to spend a great deal of time online to learn about them. The electronics, the special flight computers and computers that govern how fast the main rotor turns etc, the special setups to make them fly a certain way etc. You basically have to spend even more of your free time online as well as the simming and flying and repairing and building to properly learn about them. It tapers off after a while but there is a big investment in the first year in time and money.'

'So are these battery powered?'

'Yes, there is nitro fuel powered helis and electric powered helis. Electric is more powerful though the batteries and and chargers etc aren't cheap.'

'The batteries are expensive?'

'Oh yes, for the big powerful 700 class helis, the lipos are sometimes $500 for two lipos that together provide 3-5 minutes of flight time. So to fly a 700 you need a club with power which isn't as common as you'd expect or a personal generator and a few sets of these $500 batteries.'

'Wow, that is short and very expensive. Do the batteries last a long time?'

'Well, not that long as they only last about 200 cycles and prob start losing power after about 100-150 flights. You have to store them properly as they are finicky and can die prematurely or burn your house down if they aren't treated properly.'

'Ok...it sounds very interesting and it was great watching you. Thanks for your time. I think I'll consider darts/bingo/roller blades/D&D (insert any other easier to get into minority hobby)!'