Is the MCPx like this?

[spykez]

Originally Posted by chuck-o

....
I do have an mcpx now and I do have something to say to those who recommend it over the msrx for indoor training.
Are you people high?

I don't recommend it - I just do it.

Just desperate. Winter. Wet. Dark. Warm. Bright. Inside. Need fix.
Helicrack makes you do that .

Just takes a bit of practice. I think flying in cramped quarters is somewhat .. exciting.

We take proper precautions

I do agree the mCP X can cause a lot of collateral damage but speaking for myself, I never would believe it but I think it flies way better than an mSR indoors. FP heli's in theory and in my experience are less agile than CP's.

The other option are the walkera micros but they are ummm... more delicate but cause less collateral damage.

[Diogenes]

Only thing I'm concerned about with the mcpx indoors is the headspeed. It is easier to fly indoors, but once you lose control, things break and the wife gets upset.......

[Talesin]

Originally Posted by spykez

I do agree the mCP X can cause a lot of collateral damage but speaking for myself, I never would believe it but I think it flies way better than an mSR indoors.

The mSR's lower headspeed, slower overall movement and nearly self-stabilizing 45-degree flybar would all disagree.

Originally Posted by koi-fish

Only thing I'm concerned about with the mcpx indoors is the headspeed. It is easier to fly indoors, but once you lose control, things break and the wife gets upset.......

Simple. Just aim for the porcelain children collection, or the hallmark collector plates, or the ugly Elvis mug. Or if you aren't confident in what you're doing, just fly outside given that the mCPX handles wind like a baus, or in the garage. Or mention that you were considering picking up chainsaw bear juggling. Or full-contact indoor Calvinball.

[spykez]

Originally Posted by Talesin

The mSR's lower headspeed, slower overall movement and nearly self-stabilizing 45-degree flybar would all disagree.

The mSR, yep.... Probably the *MOST* troublesome heli I've ever had (never had an SR), but when you tune her right she flies pretty good. It's the slow umm.... "collective" that really annoys me about it now, just doesn't respond quick but of course, that's the nature of FP. I probably owe it quite a bit for indoor orientation practice in the early days (I consider myself still a noob).

Anyhow just came here, given it's winter, to see if the mSR X was any fun, and I think given I'm happily flying the mCP X and mini CP indoors, I'll give this a pass.

[spykez]

Koi, I know this sounds kind of crazy, but umm... flying the mCP X, I found more agility the better. I actually run the same setup indoors as outdoors.

So essentially my rudder travel are around 125, collective travel (pitch ATV) is between 65 and 74 depending on the heli (where a pitch pump doesn't bog). I'm flying a stock extended tailboom on one and the others are stock. Cyclic rates I have at 100 30% expo. Flat 100% throttle lol. Linear pitch curve.

The rudder rates are the big thing for me - I found if I turn faster,coupled with CP, I am less likely to hit things. YMMV but my opinion is go for agility.

Just be aware of ground effect / turbulence - sometimes if you do something too quick near something large and flat beneath you, you can get sucked down onto it. This got me more than once. I believe this is the explanation. I don't ever remember this being an issue with my mSR.

Having instant collective response was the biggest improvement I noted comparing flying the mSR indoors to this. I daresay this is better in the long run than the mSR X but I, not having one myself, can only voice a somewhat weak argument in the favour of the mCP X.

Different strokes for different folks ultimately.

One last thing I have to say: I wear eye protection when flying inside - heli's just too close. I flew this horrible coax mall-copter job once (It wasn't a SYMA btw) and it loosed the brass flybar weight that could have taken out an eye. This is probably more important with the high HS of the mCP X.

Apart from that look for the breakables and take proper precautions.

Have fun whatever you do!

[Diogenes]

I have a tamer control set that I fly the mcpx in the house occasionally with, but I have a very small house as well (1700ft 2 story). so, there's not a lot of maneuvering room. Harley and Yamaha get in the way in the garage.....sigh.

also, i whapped my wife's two little toes a while back with the mcpx (even with TH flipped, she still got bruised). So, it is essentially a banned item. The MSR/MSRX, not so much.

Am having a blast with the hobby. I tried to go too far too fast with flying skills, have slowed down some to get the fundamentals down better. My 18 yr old son laughs as he got this started with two $10 dollar cheapies last December.

[Iskareot]

Id say the mCPX is above it in power and response, so to compare isn't really fair. One could say, add in the collective and speed and power and you could almost feel the same.

I will say so far in the blade line the MSRX is the closest thing to it thats for sure.

More cyclic adjustments needed constantly but feels like it in a fixed pitch mode per se.

If you can make the MSRX dance... you should be fine to start on the mCPX - I would think.

[Talesin]

Originally Posted by Iskareot

Id say the mCPX is above it in power and response, so to compare isn't really fair. One could say, add in the collective and speed and power and you could almost feel the same.

I will say so far in the blade line the MSRX is the closest thing to it thats for sure.

More cyclic adjustments needed constantly but feels like it in a fixed pitch mode per se.

If you can make the MSRX dance... you should be fine to start on the mCPX - I would think.

Nnnnnnot so much. Yes, the mCPX is more powerful. It's also much more precise and doesn't require NEARLY as much compensation on rudder inputs. It's simply an mSRX-specific design problem, teaches poor flying habits, and (so far) can't be fixed.

It's perfectly fair to compare them without taking the CP or added power into account. You could also compare it with an mSR, 120SR, 450 X, just about any Walkera/Futaba/Align/Gaui... even the Chinese cheapo-brands like the Nine Eagles Double Horse or the EXI TRex knockoffs don't have the mSRX's rudder problem. Because it's a problem with the mSRX.


That's not to say that you can't still have fun with the mSRX. You can. But after flying something that responds properly? It'll grate on you more and more the longer you fly it, until it just becomes a shelf-bound dustcatcher, or gets sold off to someone else who thinks it 'can't be THAT bad'.

[BigRHS]

Originally Posted by Talesin

Nnnnnnot so much. Yes, the mCPX is more powerful. It's also much more precise and doesn't require NEARLY as much compensation on rudder inputs. It's simply an mSRX-specific design problem, teaches poor flying habits, and (so far) can't be fixed.

It's perfectly fair to compare them without taking the CP or added power into account. You could also compare it with an mSR, 120SR, 450 X, just about any Walkera/Futaba/Align/Gaui... even the Chinese cheapo-brands like the Nine Eagles Double Horse or the EXI TRex knockoffs don't have the mSRX's rudder problem. Because it's a problem with the mSRX.



That's not to say that you can't still have fun with the mSRX. You can. But after flying something that responds properly? It'll grate on you more and more the longer you fly it, until it just becomes a shelf-bound dustcatcher, or gets sold off to someone else who thinks it 'can't be THAT bad'.

I have 2 MSRX's and 2 MCPX's and I enjoy flying both.
I still fly my MSRX quite a bit. I don't fly it as much as i use to, because I divide my time between it and the MCPX...........I will admit that most of my time goes to the MCPX now, but I still enjoy flying the MSRX.
The MSRX was also a big help getting me ready for the MCPX. It prepared me by teaching me to be easy on the thumbs and to be constantly flying the heli. I had a 120SR and did not like it at all, I thought it taught me more bad habits then the MSRX ever did and couldn't wait to sell it !
I think you'll find that there are several of us on here that love this little bird and have found it very helpful with teaching us SOME of the skills we need to fly a bird like the MCPX.
I would have hated to think what would have happen if I had tried to fly the MCPX without the experience of the MSRX. I would be buying a lot more parts for my MCPX's if it were not for the experience of the MSRX.
Does the MSRX have it's problems..........yea, it does. It's got it's flaws, I don't think anybody would ever deny that, but after you learn to fly it, it can be a blast..........and it can help you to learn to control other quicker heli's.
In my opinion, I think it helped me be prepared more for the MCPX then my MSR or 120SR did. Don't get me wrong, both of those have their place, but if and when you are ready to step up to the MCPX, the MSRX helped to prepare me much more then the other 2 did.
Of course this is just my opinion !

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by Talesin

Nnnnnnot so much. Yes, the mCPX is more powerful. It's also much more precise and doesn't require NEARLY as much compensation on rudder inputs. It's simply an mSRX-specific design problem, teaches poor flying habits, and (so far) can't be fixed.

It's perfectly fair to compare them without taking the CP or added power into account. You could also compare it with an mSR, 120SR, 450 X, just about any Walkera/Futaba/Align/Gaui... even the Chinese cheapo-brands like the Nine Eagles Double Horse or the EXI TRex knockoffs don't have the mSRX's rudder problem. Because it's a problem with the mSRX.


That's not to say that you can't still have fun with the mSRX. You can. But after flying something that responds properly? It'll grate on you more and more the longer you fly it, until it just becomes a shelf-bound dustcatcher, or gets sold off to someone else who thinks it 'can't be THAT bad'.

meh, I'll keep flying it. I like it enough that I'm starting on converting one of mine to brushless this evening (USPS willing)........

It has its' problems and I accept that, but is still fun to fly. I'll hang on to the both of them that I have

[toys2cars2toys]

Originally Posted by Talesin

Nnnnnnot so much. Yes, the mCPX is more powerful. It's also much more precise and doesn't require NEARLY as much compensation on rudder inputs. It's simply an mSRX-specific design problem, teaches poor flying habits, and (so far) can't be fixed.

It's perfectly fair to compare them without t...........

+1/2 -1/2

I agree that the rudder > drift is an msrx specific problem


I didn't even notice the drift when I got mine, this is because I was automatically correcting for it without thinking, I've had many helis for some time before the msrx, I bought the little one for indoor practice

reading the forums, the large majority seem to like the msrx more as they get experienced, which I why I was surprised at your comment. I assume that you are a quite accomplished flyer based on your models and mention of your students

I don't agree that it creates bad habits, surely witnessing and reacting to a movement (in this case drift) is a very desirable skill
Where as the msr and 120sr make a pendulum move of their own which is very hard to correct against - they were very bad for my flying

[plexus]

I love flying my msrx and in fact just ordered the parts to go brushless with it. its quirky but what heli isn't? speaking of teaching bad habits, one could argue that FBL teaches bad habits because the head is under computer and multi-axis gyro control where-as FB require that you the pilot set it up correctly in order to fly with more stability. i think a lot of people are expecting the helicopter to fly itself except for pilot input. and i think that the manufacturers, like HH, are trying to accommodate this with FBL technology. thing is, there is going to be a longer wait before any heli can be completely 100% stable and only respond to pilot input. then again, is that really what you want?

i personally prefer the helicopter to require mechanical expertise of set up and i also like the various "personalities" of the helicopters. having one remain 100% stable and respond 100% to my inputs would frankly be kind of boring.

[Talesin]

Originally Posted by toys2cars2toys

+1/2 -1/2

I agree that the rudder > drift is an msrx specific problem


I didn't even notice the drift when I got mine, this is because I was automatically correcting for it without thinking, I've had many helis for some time before the msrx, I bought the little one for indoor practice

reading the forums, the large majority seem to like the msrx more as they get experienced, which I why I was surprised at your comment. I assume that you are a quite accomplished flyer based on your models and mention of your students

I don't agree that it creates bad habits, surely witnessing and reacting to a movement (in this case drift) is a very desirable skill
Where as the msr and 120sr make a pendulum move of their own which is very hard to correct against - they were very bad for my flying

There's a difference between being able to keep it in the air (which I can) and being able to effortlessly put it where I want it. It's like a mountain bike enthusiast being put on a $100 Wal-mart special with a dodgy pedal or loose handlebars. They can *ride* it, but having had the experience of something that performs as it should, the flaw becomes more glaring and annoying the longer they're on it.
I'd never said that I was unable to fly it. I said that it's a PITA to fly it, and given the option, will fly one of my other helis. Also that I regret having wasted the money on the mSRX in the hopes that it would have hit the sweet spot between the mSR and mCPX.

It gets worse when I see someone just learning trying to fly it; getting frustrated because it's doing something they didn't tell it to do, and assuming that it's their fault and not the flawed equipment causing the issue. I put them on a heli that responds to their inputs, and they do MUCH better.

With my mSR, I can fly FFF inside my apartment; funnels are a breeze, banked figure eights are cake. Nose and tail-in orbits go without saying. The 120SR is just the same (again *indoors*), just needs a little more care as it has more inertia. Still working on getting speed up with the mCPX, just as it IS so much faster.
A basic circuit with the mSRX is pulling bloody teeth, even after the MMM mod and all the other 'tone down the problem' fixes that I've gone through; it requires constant compensation/correction and babying that none of my other helis need. Sure, the mCPX needs a light nudge if it starts to tilt, but it's nothing more than light pressure. The mSRX turned 90 degrees will LAUNCH itself at the wall at top speed unless it's reined in, and has similar unexpected and violent reactions to any rudder input while in motion. Absolutely unacceptable.

[toys2cars2toys]

Hi Talesin, please don't take my post the wrong way, I went to lengths to say that I assumed that you were a good flyer - no doubting that by the posts you have made

I do wonder if you have an msrx with something else wrong than just the normal quirks

Let me try to explain how mine is - post MMM

Imagine the feel of an msr, ie sprightly but not as tight as say the mcpx
Of course no pendulum effect of the msr
When I apply rudder, it drifts a little, but no more than flying outside in a light gusty wind - easily corrected

I guess you could describe it a bit like flying a slowed down mcpx in a breeze (albeit a breeze that changes directions)

The point is - it doesn't go off manic'ly. Really not offensive at all and to be honest, other than in stationary piro, the swash levelling effect really doesn't make anywhere near the impact that I would have expected

[Talesin]

That's very odd then; even with the MMM mod, mine does shoot off sharply. Adjusting the links the other direction just causes it to reverse. It's much sharper than just a bit of breeze, it's about as if I had the elevator more than a quarter of the way along its throw from mid-stick, dependant on the direction of turn. On a right, the tail lifts to I'd say around 30 degrees off level. I may have to take a video just to make sure we're on the same page, because I get a violent dive forward or back, not just a bit of drift (as with the mCPX).

And I'm not taking offense, just clarifying the issue I take with the heli... being able to stick it out doesn't excuse or render moot the fact that it has a problem. We're all friends here, I'm just annoyed with the heli.


I'd like to ask though; can anyone do a smooth nose or tail-in orbit with the mSRX? As in, nose-tip or tail rotor holding an exact position while the heli rotates around it. Or even just sideways-flight circuits with the nose or tail in? I've got no hope of getting mine to do either; as soon as the rudder is touched, it's off and headed for the nearest wall.

[burnoutboy]

I can't keep the nose or tail in the same EXACT position but I can get it damn close. I can funnel (pie plate really) tail in fairly well. Flying sideways circuits is simple in either direction. It all was stick time though. None of it was easy to pick up but I enjoyed the added challenge. I agree with toys2cars2toys that it really taught me to react to whatever the heli does and constantly keep on the sticks to keep it where I want it. IMO it's a pretty desireable skill to learn.

That said I have no illusion that there isn't a slight design flaw. I just actually enjoy working around it.

[BigRHS]

Originally Posted by burnoutboy

I can't keep the nose or tail in the same EXACT position but I can get it damn close. I can funnel (pie plate really) tail in fairly well. Flying sideways circuits is simple in either direction. It all was stick time though. None of it was easy to pick up but I enjoyed the added challenge. I agree with toys2cars2toys that it really taught me to react to whatever the heli does and constantly keep on the sticks to keep it where I want it. IMO it's a pretty desireable skill to learn.

That said I have no illusion that there isn't a slight design flaw. I just actually enjoy working around it.

+ 1
I can do a pretty good funnel tail in, but I'm still working on the nose in.......not quite there yet.
I have never tried the sideway's circuits yet as i have been flying my MCPX more lately because it's still new to me.
I can do some nice right hand turn circuits with banked turns and do left hand turn circuits although the left hand did take a good long while to get to were i could do them at all and they are not quite up to my right hand turns.
Like you, I love this little bird.....flaws and all. It has it's flaws, but learning to control it really helped me to control the MCPX. Maybe it doesn't help anybody else, but this was my experience.
I don't disagree with most of what you say Talesin, it has it flaws and i think if HH would admit to that and just make a few changes to it, it would be a near perfect FP trainer.
But I do disagree that you can't adjust it to fly well......not perfect......but well. No......you shouldn't have to do all the adjusting to get it to fly right and no, it doesn't fix the problem, but it does mask it pretty damn well as a lot on here will tell you. Between the MMMod and the mixes in my DX6i, it flies pretty good and I really enjoy flying it.
But we all have our opinions !

[burnoutboy]

The one thing I don't get is the mCP X v.2 and the mSR X both usethe same AS3X FBL system but the mCP X is programmed without this flaw. Seems like it should be a fairly straightforward fix for Horizon but I guess not.

[Talesin]

Well, AS3X is more of just a brand name for the base code it seems, and appears to have been primarily written with CP in mind; I wouldn't be surprised if the mSRX adaptation was a bit of a slapdash given that they had to cut out a majority of the internal mixing to make it work with fixed pitch at all; even with the mQX they effectively have collective, just distributed across the rotors.

I'm beginning to suspect that I may just have a 'bad one' though.

[BigRHS]

Originally Posted by burnoutboy

The one thing I don't get is the mCP X v.2 and the mSR X both usethe same AS3X FBL system but the mCP X is programmed without this flaw. Seems like it should be a fairly straightforward fix for Horizon but I guess not.

The biggest problem with that may be that they would have to admit they have a problem in the 1st place, and then might have to fix all MSRX's that have been sold. because you know, most everybody ( not all ) would then want either their board fixed or a new one.
Not saying that's the case, but it might be one reason they don't issue a fix for it.