Which Blade helis have released later than originally expected?

[jaydekay]

Blade 450 X
Blade 300 X

What else...?

[tommeke]

blade 500x and 500 3d, probably

[Mojappa]

All of 'em. The mCP, the SR, the mSRx...the 120 might have been on time but I had zero interest so I didn't follow that one.

[litehawkdown]

It is much like going to the party fashionably late. All Blade helis seem to roll like this. Some say it is to build up the hype. But I think it has a lot to do with out soaring. But you would think they would have this down by now. But honestly how many of you want to spend that tax return $ on the 450x now that you have to wait even longer? Mooooahahhahaaaaa!

[jaydekay]

Joe, Tom - that's pretty much what I was thinking.

That's an interesting track record there...

I really hope HH/Blade is not putting dates out that are false or highly-unlikely for the wrong reasons.

[Gimpdiggity]

My RC car of choice is a Horizon brand, as well, Electrix...and the same thing seems to happen with them.

They announce that a product is going to be coming out, then keep pushing the date back until it finally releases.

[Kumba]

This sounds like an old business trick to me. Essentially it was a way to minimize risk and leverage expected/guaranteed revenue. Basically goes something like this:

1) Design a prototype
2) Come up with a price based upon an initial order and estimated market value
3) Market the hell out of it, accept pre-orders to guarantee revenue
4) Actually go into manufacturing when you are confident you will sell your initial order
5) If expected demand is many orders of magnitude greater then anticipated, adjust initial order for better economy of scale

Business' do this all the time. It's a way to gauge market reaction and demand for a new product without having to actually spend money on manufacturing, inventory, and labor. In fact, almost all business' do this now. It's called "JIT" or "Just In Time". It's a method of product development and manufacturing that is the mass-produced version of built to order.

The one major con to this is the vaporware/paper-tiger effect. In other words, constantly pissing off customers by missing shipping dates or otherwise not delivering. This is rampant all over the place in the software design arena (which is where I am at) as well as other industries. Usually what ends up happening is competition shows up that does deliver.

Not saying that this is what HH is doing, but it sure looks like it from all the angles I can see.

[litehawkdown]

Originally Posted by Kumba

This sounds like an old business trick to me. Essentially it was a way to minimize risk and leverage expected/guaranteed revenue. Basically goes something like this:

1) Design a prototype
2) Come up with a price based upon an initial order and estimated market value
3) Market the hell out of it, accept pre-orders to guarantee revenue
4) Actually go into manufacturing when you are confident you will sell your initial order
5) If expected demand is many orders of magnitude greater then anticipated, adjust initial order for better economy of scale

Business' do this all the time. It's a way to gauge market reaction and demand for a new product without having to actually spend money on manufacturing, inventory, and labor. In fact, almost all business' do this now. It's called "JIT" or "Just In Time". It's a method of product development and manufacturing that is the mass-produced version of built to order.

The one major con to this is the vaporware/paper-tiger effect. In other words, constantly pissing off customers by missing shipping dates or otherwise not delivering. This is rampant all over the place in the software design arena (which is where I am at) as well as other industries. Usually what ends up happening is competition shows up that does deliver.

Not saying that this is what HH is doing, but it sure looks like it from all the angles I can see.

Makes sense don't it. That 500 3D and X is looking like a turd. I am seeing no buzz around the release of that heli. 300x looks to have interest. Wonder if it will live up to expectations or even blow them away. Guess we will have to wait another month or so to find out.

[ping]

Horizon is really bad as a company at announcing release dates before the product is "on the water". Even a minor issue can cause weeks of delays is these situations. It's not limited to just the Blade brand, but nearly everything Horizon produces.

It's so simple I can't understand why so many large companies can't get it right. Set a release window using the quarterly or seasonal model. Announce a release date once you have word that your container has shipped from China. Pad your release date several weeks to allow for minor delays in transit, and potential delays at customs.

[InFocus]

Lol, so simple, a cavem..

Time to market, and time to announce is sometimes a hard issue to tackle. The desire is to get folks to buy your product rather than your competitor. If you announce your going to have something new out, folks may choose to wait and buy yours, rather than buy a competitors. Its a fine line.. In some cases, you don't want to announce something too early, otherwise folks will stop buying what you already have on the shelf.. For example, you didn't hear much hype about the mCPX V2, because if they announced that too early before it was available, it would have frozen V1 sales.

[Kumba]

The biggest problem with JIT is the vaporware and paper-tiger effect. If you consistently don't meet your estimated go-to-market dates then people will quit buying your stuff. It's that simple. That's the vaporware part. The paper-tiger part is where you promise it will make cheeseburgers and give you a back rub and instead it steals your money and beats up the neighborhood kids. Basically marketing a product above and beyond it's delivered means. This is the result of either quality-control and/or production inefficiencies from the prototype to mass production or salesman/marketing types running the company.

Back in the old days people would prototype something and make sure it worked, figure out if it filled a void or demand in the market, made an initial investment run, and then tried to market the heck out of it and sale it. Unfortunately not every idea or invention sells and investors discovered that this was a good way to go broke. So somewhere around the 70's they started switching to prototype, advertise, then manufacture. Now it's been extrapolated to the point where a limited prototype is done, then it's marketed until they get their demand in place, and then the finished product R&D is done as it's being manufactured. This is where you get some of the superseded part numbers like the blade grips on the mCPX.

Again, the only REAL problem with this methodology is becoming the boy that cried wolf. At some point people will quit paying attention to you and the market will move on.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

The problem with Blade/Horizon is they announce a product and a release date to go along with it. Guys plan on their purchases to coincide with the expected release date. When that date changes then the company loses credibility. Right now Horizon has ZERO credibility with their customers. This is particularly damaging for a company like Blade. Blade is very much geared toward new/advancing pilots. The Blade line is the very best in the market to take someone who has never flown a helicopter and to teach them everything they need in order to eventually fly any helicopter out there. The problem is that every new Blade product is always delayed, so they ALWAYS lose sales to competitors who have mastered the previous product and are ready to advance, but the hardware is not available. Take the 450X for example. I saw many customers who had mastered the MCPX and were ready to advance to a 450. They wanted a 450X, but it was not available. Horizon promised a late January release date for the 450X, so these guys waited until January due to their loyalty to Blade that was established with the MCX>MSR>MCPX progression. When January came and went with no 450X, these customers purchased a competitor's product. Delaying the 300X cost Horizon more than they will probably realize. Whether it's true or not, a smaller helicopter is always seen as a "better" step than going to a larger helicopter, thus customers were waiting to go from the MCPX to the 300X. I bet a lot of these customers will now be purchasing an Align 250 instead of the B300X.

Horizon just DOES NOT GET IT.

[Mojappa]

The beauty in this case is that the 250 has a few finicky properties (especially the tail) and they are more expensive than the 300X so the 300 doesn't really have any viable competition at this point. There may be unforeseen tail issues with this heli as well but I doubt Blade will lose many sales by missing the mark on a release date. As far as planning anything around a Blade release date, that is something you only fall for once, then you learn and patiently wait for the product to actually hit shelves. I am interested in this heli but know better than to jump on the first batch, been there done that. I'll sit idly by and wait for you beta testers to report on it thoroughly before making any plans to buy it. Once it's proven in the hands of capable pilots, not noobs, I'll be more likely to get one.

[newhelicrasher]

Originally Posted by InFocus

Lol, so simple, a cavem..

Time to market, and time to announce is sometimes a hard issue to tackle. The desire is to get folks to buy your product rather than your competitor. If you announce your going to have something new out, folks may choose to wait and buy yours, rather than buy a competitors. Its a fine line.. In some cases, you don't want to announce something too early, otherwise folks will stop buying what you already have on the shelf.. For example, you didn't hear much hype about the mCPX V2, because if they announced that too early before it was available, it would have frozen V1 sales.

At least until people with v2s start bitchin on the forums about how v1 was actually a better heli....lol.

[InFocus]

Originally Posted by newhelicrasher

At least until people with v2s start bitchin on the forums about how v1 was actually a better heli....lol.

sad but true.

[jaydekay]

I don't know the details, but speculation might suggest that resources were pulled from the 300 X so they could cram the 130 X in to the flight season. I have seen them rush to market for the wrong reasons before.

Hey, blade ejections during flight on the mCPX V1 ring a bell? They rushed to the market to beat out the Trex 100 meanwhile it would appear that they put quality control and safety on the back burner.

It's nice that the 130 X will be released this summer "around the same time as the 300 X", but if my assumption above is true, then it screws everyone over who is waiting for the 300 X.

Assumptions aside - HH really needs to get their dates sorted out. This happens on almost every heli they release!

They also need to improve their parts supply. Why are they not learning from this? This happens on almost every heli they release, too!

I'm sure this is not easy, but neither is my job and I bust ass to make things happen.

We're paying good money for these helis, and outrageous money for many of the parts. They should at least hit dates that we look forward to and properly support the dang things when they're released.

I will say that on the customer service side, they do a good job in replacing parts. But, IMHO, generally the stuff that they're replacing shouldn't have failed in the first place.

I really don't want to rip on them because I want to like them, but repeated shortcomings of the same type over and over and over can become a bit annoying.

[litehawkdown]

Originally Posted by jaydekay

I don't know the details, but speculation might suggest that resources were pulled from the 300 X so they could cram the 130 X in to the flight season. I have seen them rush to market for the wrong reasons before.

Hey, blade ejections during flight on the mCPX V1 ring a bell? They rushed to the market to beat out the Trex 100 meanwhile it would appear that they put quality control and safety on the back burner.

It's nice that the 130 X will be released this summer "around the same time as the 300 X", but if my assumption above is true, then it screws everyone over who is waiting for the 300 X.

Assumptions aside - HH really needs to get their dates sorted out. This happens on almost every heli they release!

They also need to improve their parts supply. Why are they not learning from this? This happens on almost every heli they release, too!

I'm sure this is not easy, but neither is my job and I bust ass to make things happen.

We're paying good money for these helis, and outrageous money for many of the parts. They should at least hit dates that we look forward to and properly support the dang things when they're released.

I will say that on the customer service side, they do a good job in replacing parts. But, IMHO, generally the stuff that they're replacing shouldn't have failed in the first place.

I really don't want to rip on them because I want to like them, but repeated shortcomings of the same type over and over and over can become a bit annoying.

+1 This is my beef with HH. Everyone states how great they are. Are they? They are the only thing out there it seems to me with LHS support. I bet someone out there with the resources could do a better job. Wish I was born into $ lol. I would love to see a little more diversity in my LHS. I can't wait to see what would happen if HK got their foot in the door at the LHS level!

[blade450s]

I think the price on the blade 500 is too much what do you all think

[InFocus]

Was speaking with the owner of an LHS. They have pretty much dropped Align and Walkera support.

The reason they stated:
They just had problems getting support from Align for customer problems. Often he had to directly communicate with Align representatives in CHINA, and was given the run-around on replacement parts.. Even in cases where he wanted to order parts, they took many weeks to actually arrive..

Walkera, the issue was mainly, how long it took for parts to arrive from china. In both cases, he admits the fault is not always the company, because often the parts were delayed in San Francisco customs.

He says, HH on the other hand treats the dealers as well as HH treats it's end customers. His quote to me 'HH figured out that they can keep customers if they don't haggle over a part that only cost them $10 to make. Happy customers make repeat purchases'.

LHS's would love to be able to support many brands.

[litehawkdown]

Originally Posted by InFocus

Was speaking with the owner of an LHS. They have pretty much dropped Align and Walkera support.

The reason they stated:
They just had problems getting support from Align for customer problems. Often he had to directly communicate with Align representatives in CHINA, and was given the run-around on replacement parts.. Even in cases where he wanted to order parts, they took many weeks to actually arrive..

Walkera, the issue was mainly, how long it took for parts to arrive from china. In both cases, he admits the fault is not always the company, because often the parts were delayed in San Francisco customs.

He says, HH on the other hand treats the dealers as well as HH treats it's end customers. His quote to me 'HH figured out that they can keep customers if they don't haggle over a part that only cost them $10 to make. Happy customers make repeat purchases'.

LHS's would love to be able to support many brands.

HH supplies Align stuff to my LHS. So I don't know where your guy is getting his. I had a question about my Align heli yesterday and my guy at my LHS gave HH a call. Funny thing was the awesome HH guy on the phone said sorry I can't get/find that Part Call Align in Taiwan. I told My LHS guy to open up a thread on HF that listed the Align part. He got the part # and entered it into HH's dealers data base and wala there it was. The very part we where looking for. My LHS guy was pissed. HH made him look a fool and almost cost him a sale. I never used HH support but if that's how they treat a guy with a rep number that gives them the kind of money he is tossing at them then I don't want to see how they treat me.