First build : Tarot 450 Pro V2

[RoboHeli]

After a few years of flying RTF/BNF models from Blade, I've decided it's time to try my hand at building a heli from a kit. After some consideration, I chose a Tarot 450 Pro v2 kit so that I can make use of all of the Align & clone spare parts that are still out there. I'm also looking to build something more or less on the low-end of the budget.

My current flyer is a Blade 450X and so I'd like to keep using the 3S 2200mAh flight packs that I've collected for that heli. My club field has no power and I don't own a generator so I've got 12 flight packs of that size. I know that a lot of guys are running 6S systems but I'd like to stick with 3S.

I've been reading what people have done in the past and are still doing now and have come up with what seems to be a good set of options of parts both from a price and current stock availability.

FBL

For a FBL unit, I'm thinking of using one of my older BeastX (7200) rather than going with something like a Spirit or 3Digi system.

ESC

For ESC, I've been very happy with the Castle Edge Lite 50 that I've got on my 450X now so my first thought was to pick up another one of those. However, I've heard really good things about Hobbywing and I'm also looking at the Hobbywing Platinum 50A V3 ESC (w/7A BEC).

Cyclic Servos

For cyclic servos, I was planning on going with the HiTec 5065MG servos although after reading Finless's thread about issues with those (https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=276088) servos, I'm also considering the KST DS215MG or TYG-306G-HV servos instead because of the metal case and the fact that they won't be as likely to flex and cause binding. Of course, since I'm planning on using the BeastX, I could also pick up some of the Spektrum H3050 servos though I guess I am concerned about the plastic frames binding.

If I went with the KST servos, it seems that I might want to go with the Hobbywing ESC rather than the Castle Edge Lite since the Hobbywing's got a beefier BEC (7A vs 5A).

Motor

I was thinking about going with the Align TRex 460MX 3200KV. Now, that being said, I've been happy with the EFlite H450 (EFLM60450A) 3600KV motor in my 450X and so was thinking about getting another one but I don't know how well the Eflite one would actually fit..

Tail Servo

I'm less concerned about this one. I've been running a JR DS290G in my 450X now though I could also pick up a Spektrum H3060 or even a HiTec 5084MG. I've heard at least one recommendation for the KST DS515MG at least.


So, putting it all together, I guess I'm thinking about two different setups:

FBL: BeastX
ESC: Castle Edge Lite 50
Cyclic: HiTec 5065MG / Spektrum H3050
Tail: HiTec 5084MG / Spektrum H3060
Motor: 460MX

Another option is:

FBL: BeastX
ESC: Hobbywing Platinum 50A
Cylic: KST DS215MG
Tail: KST DS515MG
Motor: 460MX


Some other things I'm considering are getting a belted tail setup rather than staying with the torque tube. I like the belt on the 450X though I may start out with the TT just to get the experience with it. If I stay with the TT, I know that I'll want to see about getting an additional bearing to help cut out vibrations AND that the black Align gears have good marks.

I'd love to get any additional input from the folks in this forum.

[Epoweredrc]

Well, you can use anything you want, your heli, your money, if you have used something before you feel better about using it so use it, I know I like to use what I know works. and Well if i had to pick one company to buy servos from it would be HITEC, I have used them for many years, I myself love HS65HB/MG both, along with HS5065's I have HS65MG in my Blade 4503d that i converted to FBL using a tarot FBL head and unit.
my father has two 450s with same servos and one 450x with 5065s in. all work fine all have loads of flights on them.

its been a long time but i know on some frames you have to file the plastic some to open up the hole to make the servos fit, i do think i had to on my 450 its been a long time since i have installed them.

just try to use servos that are known to work, i tried to save money and got some cheap ones from Hobbyking others said worked great the Solars, (forget the numbers were for a blade 300) worse servos ever, ears broke off and had issues whole time.

if you already have a AR7200 use it, units are great, fast to set up once you done it a few time, no bail out so if you need bail out go with a brain or icon. i still want to test a icon, my father has one never even been powered on.

motors, well you can use eflite motor, I guess.. i have had a trex 450 motor in a blade 450 so a blade 450 motor should work in a trex copy. tarrot. I used stock blade motor in my blade450 my trex 450 has a Scorpion Next D motor.Scorpion is a fav of mine.

esc, castle is one of my favorites, I do not know a better esc, if you have the data cable there super simple to set up. i do not know about the other one you mentioned but I know the Turinigys are good, I have a AE45 in my trex450 and my father has a few in his 450's we do run separate BEC's tho, to be safe.

I think the Tarrot helicopters are good, I would build one. I might one day. you will always have the guys who are hard core for the originals

tail servos, well whatever people recommend these days, I think I have a Futaba 9557 or something like that one a 450. i think i might upgrade it when i get the heli back ( my father loaned me some money i put up the heli for him to hold.) last time i flew it the tail wouldn't hold as well as i wanted in backward flight but could been the tarrot FBL unit and some of my settings. there tons of Tail servos, I do have a cheaper tail servo from hobbyking that I used on my blade 300 it was so smooth.. i might get one them try on my blade 450 later on.

i think you have a good idea of what you wanna do so its time to decide for sure the componets and start buying.. you can always buy the heli build it and while building then decide what electronics and order before the builds finished. But if your like me, you start the build on friday night and by Saturday night its complete and you need the electronics lol..

others i know start on Friday yesterday and wouldn't be done till end of the summer LOL

[RoboHeli]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. That's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

I've mainly been trying to source parts that I read about people successfully using. The list of servos primarily came from that research. The only ones I don't know about are the Spektrum ones but since the HiTec servos work with the 450X and the 450 Pro (though yes, I've heard I will have to expand the holes) and the Spektrum work with the 450X, I imagine that the Spektrum will also work with the Pro even if I do also have to expand the mounting holes a little bit.

Good to hear about the Align 450 motor in the 450X. That means I'd probably be able to use the EFlite 450 in the Tarot as you suggested. I'll do a little more research to make sure that the shaft is long enough and there are no additional gotchas.

I've also been researching a list of Align parts that work well with the Tarot. So far, I've heard that the following are good potential replacements:

* Align mainshaft
* Align feathering shaft
* Align main gear center hub + OWB
* TT gears (the black ones)
* Tail shaft
* FBL swash follow arms
* Align main gear (if the Tarot gear wobbles)


Oh, and the kit arrived at the end of last week. It looks really cool. When I opened up the box and saw all the parts, I felt like a kid again.

[learnedthehardway]

If you're trying to keep cost as low as possible you may consider a 40A YEP esc, good gov and very reliable. $30 for esc and programming card.

Also Turnigy 306g servos are fantastic and around $22ea, metal gear and aluminum case. Look good, work great and reliable as well. Same as the KST's but a few bucks cheaper

[RoboHeli]

@Epoweredrc : what external BEC do you run?

[RoboHeli]

Originally Posted by learnedthehardway

Also Turnigy 306g servos are fantastic and around $22ea, metal gear and aluminum case. Look good, work great and reliable as well. Same as the KST's but a few bucks cheaper

I presume they fit without needing any modifications? Do you know what amperage you need on the ESC or BEC to run them without fear of brownout?

[learnedthehardway]

Originally Posted by RoboHeli

I presume they fit without needing any modifications? Do you know what amperage you need on the ESC or BEC to run them without fear of brownout?

Same as the KST's and a little less if you don't get the 306gHV's that are the exact same specs as the KST's.

40a YEP has a 5.5v, 5A bec and runs them and the BK ds-3005hv I have on the tail no problem. No extrenal bec necessary, pretty sure a 4a bec would be fine with them as well and maybe even 3a with a decent burst rating

[MariaFan]

Originally Posted by RoboHeli

I've also been researching a list of Align parts that work well with the Tarot. So far, I've heard that the following are good potential replacements:

* Align mainshaft
* Align feathering shaft
* Align main gear center hub + OWB
* TT gears (the black ones)
* Tail shaft
* FBL swash follow arms
* Align main gear (if the Tarot gear wobbles)


Oh, and the kit arrived at the end of last week. It looks really cool. When I opened up the box and saw all the parts, I felt like a kid again.

The AlignTrex Store is an excellent source for Align parts.
They have an ad on the main home page.

[Highspeed1964]

Just my $.02 here.

1. BeastX (any model) is a great FBL. If you have one to spare for this build, use it.

2. I have the HobbyWing Platinum v3 50A ESC (actually two or three) and absolutely love them. Governor is one of the most accurate I've seen outside the FBL controllers which have internal governing (which is an active/predictive setup) and the resolution is down to 0.5% steps on the TX. (i.e. each change of 0.5% results in a change in RPM of about 20 - 30 RPM or so in my case.)

3. There are a lot of good choices for servos, but one thing to consider is the tail servo mount. On my 450 clone, the tail servo mount was for a larger servo than I had bought so I had to find an adapter plate to get it to fit. You could do it this way or get a servo that is the correct size for the mount.

4. I am using a variety of motors in my different 450s. With my flying style I'm not sure I see much difference, but if you're doing more wicked hardcore flying, this could make the difference between a mediocre heli and a performance rig that'll knock your socks off. Bottom line, get something that'll perform for the style of flying you do.

5. As mentioned above, for the tail servo make sure you have one that matches the mounting setup your model has. HOWEVER, the tail servo is perhaps the most CRITICAL component to be concerned about with the exception of perhaps the FBL itself as it will affect how your model flies. Make sure it has excellent speed usually around 0.08msec or less (if I recall correctly) as this will determine how effective your rudder (anti-torque to be more correct) will be. A faster servo will make the tail respond and lock in more precisely. You'll also find that tail servos, although faster, have a lower torque rating as there is not as much force to overcome here.

Good luck on your first build and hope this helps.

Keep us posted once you start the build. I, as well as others here I'm sure, would love to see how it turned out for you. More importantly, how does it fly!

Highspeed

[RoboHeli]

Looking at the TGY-306G servos from HobbyKing. Is there any reason not to get the HV ones if I'm planning on running the BEC on my ESC at 6V? They're only a little higher priced and it gives me flexibility if I want to run at a higher voltage.

[salrica]

One year warranty
https://alofthobbies.com/kst-ds215mg...h-voltage.html

Here in the states

[Indokast]

Fwiw, i have an align 450 pro. I currently have the stock align motor (which is a good motor) with castle edge lite 50 running i think 5.5v to all savox servos using edge lite's internal bec and it flys like a champ with the ar7200bx.

The tail servo holder on the align is a little larger like previous poster mentioned.

I would think the turnigy hv at 6v would be plenty fine for your build. No reason to go hv tho imo. My regular savox at 5.5v do a great job. Although im going to bump them up next time i get it up on computer to 6v.

Cheers

[Epoweredrc]

Originally Posted by RoboHeli

@Epoweredrc : what external BEC do you run?

I have used the castle 10amp one witch works fine.
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/ccbec.html
and i have used the this one, I have used these more then the other. in planes, helicopters. always worked great.
https://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/sportbec

right now on my current trex I have just installed this one.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=70767 with this esc
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=71011

[RoboHeli]

Going through the kit and checking out all the parts.

I notice that some major parts are already put together like the head and tail box. However, should I assume that everything needs to be taken apart, lubed where needed, and re-assembled with loctite? Even (or especially) the feathering spindle?

Is there anything that should be assembled with red loctite vs blue?

I found a video series by CPO that should be pretty informative to go through:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...7ffV50kV5Qvv2g

[numbermonkey]

Originally Posted by RoboHeli

I found a video series by CPO that should be pretty informative to go through:

+1 they are excellent and informative
And there's always the 'freakers

[CrashNburn420]

Yes you need to reassemble and loctite everything!! Typically things are loosely assembled in a new kit.

[RoboHeli]

Thanks, guys.

Next question. When looking for 3rd party parts like canopies and tail fins, I assume that anything made for the Align Pro v2 will fit this Tarot kit. Is that a fair assumption? What about canopies for the Align Pro (non-v2?) Will those not fit right?

[Butch Miller]

I have built three clone 450's and admit to trying to go as cheap as possible.
I do like the KST type of servos and a hobby wing ESC. I have also built an Align 450 DFC that came with all the electronics. I have over 300 flights on it . I have replaced main and tail gears as well as several servos. That said when I fly the align 450 I do notice that it fly's a little better, sounds a lot quieter than the clones and I prefer to fly it over the clones. When you add all the parts up the align combos are a pretty good deal.

[aperseghin]

depending on how cheap you need to be, there are other options.
EMAX servos are totally acceptable and cheap
also there are clone FBL out there.

[learnedthehardway]

No need to get the hv version of the tgy306's if you're running 6v, so close in price that it wouldn't hurt to get them just in case you want to go hv in the future but not necessary. I use YEP esc's with bec's fixed at 5.5v and have no plans on changing anything so I opted for the non-hv.

For sport flying just about any servo will do. If you do, or plan on doing any 3d then I'd recommend getting some with good speed. Got a trex from the classifieds and the 430m servos it came with were so slow they made the heli feel like it had pisspoor collective response. Put the H3050's that were collecting dust in a 300cfx airframe in the rex and it was totally transformed.

Before I had to use full neg and pos to push it around and catch it while flipping. Once I put the 3050's in it, it took a fraction of the stick input it used to.

I'm all for saving $$ but don't like to go too cheap when it comes to servos. If the motor goes you can still auto your heli down safely, servo failures can have unpredictable and even dangerous effects. Although I did manage to land safely when a aileron servo failed, turned the heli sideways and used the functional aile servo to bring it in.

Both the elevator servo failures I've had were impossible to control. First one locked up with the nose of my 450x pointed straight up which sent it right at me but luckily I hit TH and it hit the ground before me.

The second kept cutting in and out on my 300cfx. Stuck nose up, then jerked it to nose down, back n forth a couple times. Managed to get it level and hit TH resulting in a stiff landing on the skids with minimal damage