Alternative three blade sets

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

Thanks but I'm fine with that because I'm actually flying a Goblin 700 Comp with tri head and tail wich are dampened, I'm just looking for different blades. However is that saying the Helix's are not made for dampened heads?!

Helix were designed for an undamped head so they will not work well with the 3 way damped Sab head.

They may have made a more stuff set as well but they would be labeled differently

[MikelG]

Fortunately the HPS3 has adjustable damping. I'm going to try mine with the mid setting first with the Helix blades. I'll tighten it up later to see if I like the difference.

[trillian]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

Thanks but I'm fine with that because I'm actually flying a Goblin 700 Comp with tri head and tail wich are dampened, I'm just looking for different blades. However is that saying the Helix's are not made for dampened heads?!

So where are you located? The forecast for this area (S London and Surrey) doesn't look too promising for the weekend.

If you're close though you're welcome to try the Helix's. I'm not in a big rush. (And the problem with the main place I fly is that if it's too windy no one else will show and because we have a two member rule it means a lot of the time I'm grounded as well)

[Super Fly]

Originally Posted by trillian

So where are you located? The forecast for this area (S London and Surrey) doesn't look too promising for the weekend.

If you're close though you're welcome to try the Helix's. I'm not in a big rush. (And the problem with the main place I fly is that if it's too windy no one else will show and because we have a two member rule it means a lot of the time I'm grounded as well)

That would be well cool plus the chance to meet another London heli freak [emoji16]. I'm in S London and don't mind a bit of a travel around to other clubs. I fly as long as there's no rain! I would love to give them a try in 3D and big air flight and you're sure welcome to compare them too yourself. Thanks... should we PM?

[Super Fly]

Originally Posted by MikelG

Fortunately the HPS3 has adjustable damping. I'm going to try mine with the mid setting first with the Helix blades. I'll tighten it up later to see if I like the difference.

I already fly on the hard dampening as it is because I like a very crisp and robotic feeling heli being very predictable... you guy's got me thinking now! Saying that these SAB tri 690 3D blades feel very flexy so they may not feel any worse!

[trillian]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

I already fly on the hard dampening as it is because I like a very crisp and robotic feeling heli being very predictable... you guy's got me thinking now! Saying that these SAB tri 690 3D blades feel very flexy so they may not feel any worse!

One of these days I'm going to try to speak with the guy from NHP, I forgot his name but I know someone that knows him. Apparently he is a minicopter flyer himself. I am really curious to know the bottom line about this whole issue of what differences are needed in blades going on a fully rigid head, if indeed there is really much to it. As I have said before, I suspect there is very little difference.

[Super Fly]

Yea keep us posted still like that test though as it's said them Helix's are made for rigid heads so I can tell if there's much difference myself.

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by trillian

One of these days I'm going to try to speak with the guy from NHP, I forgot his name but I know someone that knows him. Apparently he is a minicopter flyer himself. I am really curious to know the bottom line about this whole issue of what differences are needed in blades going on a fully rigid head, if indeed there is really much to it. As I have said before, I suspect there is very little difference.

there is quite a large difference in span wise stiffness. try flexing a set next time you can feel the difference with your hands. most of the difference comes from the orientation of the carbon layup.

[trillian]

Originally Posted by Wh1teAfr1can

there is quite a large difference in span wise stiffness. try flexing a set next time you can feel the difference with your hands. most of the difference comes from the orientation of the carbon layup.

I have a pair of regular 700mm NHP Razor Pro blades and the Triabolo blades are NOT more flexible, in fact the regular Razor Pros have noticeably more span-wise flex to them. But this kind of very subjective flexibility is different between lots of blades and I'm not convinced you can tell anything meaningful that way unless the difference is really extreme.

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by trillian

I have a pair of regular 700mm NHP Razor Pro blades and the Triabolo blades are NOT more flexible, in fact the regular Razor Pros have noticeably more span-wise flex to them. But this kind of very subjective flexibility is different between lots of blades and I'm not convinced you can tell anything meaningful that way unless the difference is really extreme.

Maybe for NHP they are very similar but pick up a pair of Sab blades and compare and you can notice a difference

[trillian]

Originally Posted by Wh1teAfr1can

Maybe for NHP they are very similar but pick up a pair of Sab blades and compare and you can notice a difference

Yeah, the thing is that relative blade stiffness varies quite a bit. I don't know where the rigidity threshold is for non-damped rotorheads, there are lots of variables in the equation (as well as swash gain and etc.).

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by trillian

Yeah, the thing is that relative blade stiffness varies quite a bit. I don't know where the rigidity threshold is for non-damped rotorheads, there are lots of variables in the equation (as well as swash gain and etc.).

yeah but after a friend tried a set of helix 3 blades with a goblin with a damped head he could not adjust the osculations out of it. swapped back to more rigid blades and you could.

Helix like NHP were designed for solid heads. and have quite a bit of spanwise flex.

[Super Fly]

Interesting all this and I'm surprised that undampened heads where even made! Hear I was getting exited that we now have more tri blade options... but no now it's about dampened and undampened [emoji19]

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

Interesting all this and I'm surprised that undampened heads where even made! Hear I was getting exited that we now have more tri blade options... but no now it's about dampened and undampened [emoji19]

damped tri blade heads are very hard to get right. it is very hard without having a very large head to get enough of a moment arm for the damping to work well. even then the damping is not as easy as a 2 blade because the 2 blade head naturally balances because the other end of the shaft is attached to another blade.

[Super Fly]

Originally Posted by Wh1teAfr1can

damped tri blade heads are very hard to get right. it is very hard without having a very large head to get enough of a moment arm for the damping to work well. even then the damping is not as easy as a 2 blade because the 2 blade head naturally balances because the other end of the shaft is attached to another blade.

Ok, so why then did SAB made also a HPS2 head which has indipendent dampening on a two blade head? And why does small helis even micros have dampened heads?

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

Ok, so why then did SAB made also a HPS2 head which has indipendent dampening on a two blade head? And why does small helis even micros have dampened heads?

Because they could and it didn't work very well. Smaller 450s use a seesaw single shaft which is different

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Super Fly

Ok, so why then did SAB made also a HPS2 head which has indipendent dampening on a two blade head? And why does small helis even micros have dampened heads?

The independent damping was done in relationship to their tri program. Since it is extremely hard to anchor a moving pin. But carried over directly to the early DFC designed head. Which has very little feathering shaft rock whatsoever. Unlike the stock damped HPS. They simply took the new damped tri rotor grips and added them into an almost rigid two blade head design. This head uses very hard damps! The advantage supposedly being you now have some individual damping, but without the disadvantage of the feathering shaft itself rocking, supposedly giving better tracking during transitions. They have a more crisp feel than their stock damped HPS heads from what I hear. Not as crisp as the early DFC, which was unable to perform well at lower head speeds. ( Mostly due to tuning issues with the more basic fbl systems can be argued ).

[smsodhi]

I tried out the helix blades on the Triabolo. The first thing you notice is how much faster it is in the collective and cyclic. The heli feels lighter and more agile/faster, with the same FBL settings I had with the NHP blades. The FBL needs to be re tuned to suit the blades. The tail kicks a bit more on full collective punchouts as there is probably more bite from the blades. I may try adjusting the ESC P gain to tune this.
There were no obvious vibrations to the naked eye, and tracking was OK, some flights better than others, can't explain this. They performed well in my 3 HS, 1200 1500 1750, but I felt they were happier at 1750, just my observation, no reason to this.
I am putting the NHP blades back on as I can't be bothered to retune the heli as it is working great as it is with the NHP blades, but once they are gone, then I look forward to putting the Helix blades back on.
In conclusion there is a difference in flight performance between the NHP and the Helix blades, with the helix being faster, more aggressive and with more bite. I did not notice any change in noise from the blades. There were no obvious issues with the airframe in using the blades so far. I only had 3 flights on them.

[trillian]

Did you get the feeling they're any more efficient than the NHPs? To really judge I think it would require hovering for a few seconds at each headspeed and do the same with the NHPs and then compare the logs.

I don't want to bias myself against the Helix blades but I have a feeling I won't like them because I love the really planted rock solid feel of the Tri with the NHPs. But we shall see. If I end up liking them it's because they're really good, not because I want to like them :-o I'd prefer to not like them so I can sell them on! :-)

[OverTemp]

smsodhi,

Your tracking was going in and out? Is that what you meant?

Cheers