Strange! Inverted hover the heli wants to tilt backwards?

[Epoweredrc]

SO, my 300x is flying the best it has flown now after i installed the HS5065 servos lastnight but this afternoon i got to fly it more and i notice upright it hover hands off all day long, i can do piros left, right it stays pretty darn still. but if i flip up inverted and let go of the stick while its perfectly inverted flat i will start to tilt backwards. if i don't do anything then after ( few seconds it will almost start to do a rainbow all by itself.. im sure if i was up high enough to let it it would end up flipping back up right going backwards.

Anyone ever had this happen? if it was a CG issue then it should do it upright also . It never did this before with the other servos so Not really understanding.

CG seems perfect on it. with both of my batterys.

I got video of it doing it. guess I could edit and post if you need see video.

For any who don't know it is a 300x stock frame with lynx brace, AR7200, Scorpion motor, AE45 esc external BEC, MH main blades, Stock tail blades on align hub and grips.

This morning it was leaning to the left in flips and i quickly realized the swash was not level so i re level that and it was flying fine.

Thanks for any thoughts?

[DoubleCH]

Are the cyclic servo horns perfectly horizontal in step G with status light on?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[Epoweredrc]

I did the whole set up just like before.
Letter G yes i centered all the servo arms.
Not sure i ever paid attention to the stat light. I just go into the menu
move the stick , watch for one servo to move, then adjust it, move on to the next two then make sure i don't hit the rudder again, just move on to the next menu

[Uriah]

Please see this post by yours truly to make sure you've done setup menu G correctly. Setup menu G is the menu that seems to confuse pilots the most on the BeastX. If you've done setup menu G correctly as you seem to indicate above, then obviously we can rule that out. I've admittedly never tried analog servos on the BeastX, so can't say for sure whether or not that would contribute to this problem.

[Epoweredrc]

Originally Posted by Uriah

Please see this post by yours truly to make sure you've done setup menu G correctly. Setup menu G is the menu that seems to confuse pilots the most on the BeastX. If you've done setup menu G correctly as you seem to indicate above, then obviously we can rule that out. I've admittedly never tried analog servos on the BeastX, so can't say for sure whether or not that would contribute to this problem.

I am using 5056's There digital
http://www.amain.com/product_info.ph...o_KhoC-kfw_wcB

I have set up (2) Blade 450x's and (2) 300x using AR7200 not confused on how to do it..
if it wasn't right it wouldn't even fly upright..

Thanks that is a great post on how to do it for those who do not know.

Yes when you enter you have black light or no light, then you move the rudder stick to get to each of the servos. all this is done.

You might have read a post of mine about the swash wasn't level this morning, the arms were level i had to come out on the ball links on both ends of the left link to get the swash up high enough to match the other two. that wasn't a arm not being straight (90) issue at all.

thanks for yalls input. i just don't know what could make it do this inverted

At 16-17 sec's I let go of the stick and you see the tail drop. I then get back on the stick.. very short clip

Short video showing tail tilting issue inverted (0 min 28 sec)

[DoubleCH]

What if you go to step K (set up collective) and check level swash on full positive and negative collectives? Are they still level? If you run out of idea and am sure the mechanical side of things are all good, perhaps try master reset the BX and redo the entire setup. The only one thing I don't feel comfortable about setting up BX is parameter A (flashing A). Supposedly it affects step G (solid G) but I remember reading that even if you adjust step G param A may still be in effect. And then someone says use param A combined with step G so that you can level swash not just at 0 pitch but at full pos/neg collective. I haven't tried because I don't feel the need to but I make sure I never touch param A in fear of messing up with step G. If in doubt I'd master-reset and redo entire setup.

[Epoweredrc]

Not try that, guess I will look at that tomorrow. Heli in car, about bed time.
thanks, I guess I will just see if the servos are doing anything while in stunt mode

I have noticed for some reason my pitch seems less in normal then in ST 1 and 2 not sure why, i was trying to get the pitch 0 perfect in center stick and now when I flip from normal to ST1 the heli jumps up, then when i go from St1 to norm it comes down. I have never had a heli do that not as much as this one is.



I use a old DX7 and i was trying to go by the moniter screen to get it centered and using sub trim to get it better centered. I been looking at the swash and it almost looks like all the links could come in for the swash to go down on the shaft, It seems its closer to the top of the shaft then the bottom. not sure what really matters.

Took me 5 hours from taking the head apart and doing complete set up on my 450 conversion.. I been working on this thing for a month...

[terryv83]

You should never use subtrim with the ar7200. As for the jumping up and down is there a large difference in headspeeds between the two flight modes, or are the pitch angles different on the curve at the point you switch flight modes?

[DoubleCH]

Not familiar with DX7. If it's like DX8, you can calibrate sticks to read dead 0 at dead center sticks. Supposedly you can add subtrim to the pitch channel for BX but I highly discourage doing that. Find the manual instructions to calibrate the sticks. With DX8, you go to system menu where you see the serial number, etc. and keep going next to the last page to calibrate sticks. Subtrim may complicate things. You may be set up to run separate subtrims for each flight mode.

[BigJay]

Did you have a crash recently?

I have a 500Pro DFC with an AR7200BX on it. I had a right-side-up crash with the BX mounted in top of the boom clamp. No visible damage to the BX at all. The unit was 18 months old and had never previously had any issues.

I rebuilt the heli, resetup the BX, went flying and noticed that right side up, the heli would slowly roll backwards, similar to what your's is doing. It would also pitch up by itself in forward flight. I went through everything again, tried to minimize vibrations, resetup the BX again, same issue. Went through the BX again, every single setting, same issue.

Finally I ripped the AR7200 off of another helicopter and set it up on the 500Pro DFC. Flew perfect.

I sent the malfunctioning one into Horizon service with an explanation. They knew the age and that it had a crash. I was expecting them to charge me maybe $50 or $75 to replace the main board in my BX or something, I didn't know.

Instead they gave me a whole new retail packaged BX with all of the little accessories for $8.99 shipping. Obviously I was elated, very nice of them. But then I got it back and it had a note in the box saying they tested my old one and it was working perfectly but they gave me a new one as a courtesy. That stung a little bit. I spent weeks tweaking and replacing parts and re-doing setups. After changing the AR7200, BAM! it worked.

Anyway.. If you can't get it figured out, maybe swap one on from another heli and see what happens.

-J

[Epoweredrc]

Bigjay, This was a unit that was from a used Blade 450x, he guy my father got from on RCG said it only had 2 flights, but he must had crashed cause it came w/o the main blade grips put on and a broken main blade. so the guy got from had crashed but it flew my 300 great minus the wobbles for 20 flights.



Well just went though whole set up and had to reset the left arm, dont know why but it was way off. and re adjusted some links. I still had to use some subtrim to get 0 pitch at center stick.
I have the old 10 yr old Dx7 and as far as I know there is no way to calibrate it. it seems on the moniter screen its way off from center when stick is in the center. i am sure it needs to be sent to HH and recalibrated its got lots of hours on it. but it still does the job.
Hope one day I can some how afford the new DX9.

anyways it looks like the swash is level now up right and inverted. i guess the AR was correction for upright but couldn't inverted. I haven't gotten much sleep this heli has been a nightmare so i admit I could have just over looked something.
hope it fly better now. Thanks everyone

[DoubleCH]

Not as user-friendly as in DX8 but looks like doable. Make sure you know what you're doing and don't mess up the radio.

DX7Se HOW To - Stick Calibration & Maintenance menus (15 min 24 sec)

[Epoweredrc]

Thanks, After watching that I think I remember seeing that years ago, but had forgotten about it, Think i was always worried about messing up the radio.
At first i was going to say i don't have the SE version but that does work on the regular one also.Forgot how much nicer the SE is, backlit and all.

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by terryv83

You should never use subtrim with the ar7200. As for the jumping up and down is there a large difference in headspeeds between the two flight modes, or are the pitch angles different on the curve at the point you switch flight modes?

You should never use subtrim with the ar7200

I am not saying you are incorrect however ....................
I have seen that statement posted hundreds of time over the years even before there were any FBL units much less the RA7200 BX.. .

Some of us got around this with RAte and HeadHold gyros by using zero trim in the Normal (startup) mode and only using Sub Trim in Flight Mode 1 and 2 etc.. This also works with my Copter X and Tarot FBL units and I would like an explanation of why it would not work with the AR7200BX.

[Uriah]

Trim/subtrim on your transmitter is simply your transmitter sending control input on a specified channel without you moving the transmitter sticks. However, the BeastX has it's own built in subtrim in setup menu G, and the firmware doesn't need nor want your transmitter helping it out. What you've got your stick deadband menu (parameter menu E) set at will ultimately determine whether or not the BeastX will react to your transmitter's subtrim. Per the manual, don't use subtrims on the BeastX - they're simply not needed.

[ahahn]

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

I am not saying you are incorrect however ....................
I have seen that statement posted hundreds of time over the years even before there were any FBL units much less the RA7200 BX.. .

Some of us got around this with RAte and HeadHold gyros by using zero trim in the Normal (startup) mode and only using Sub Trim in Flight Mode 1 and 2 etc.. This also works with my Copter X and Tarot FBL units and I would like an explanation of why it would not work with the AR7200BX.

The BeastX, when it boots up, looks at what you are transmitting and assumes those are the centered values for cyclic and rudder. If you have sub trim, it will not persist through a pack change.

By definition, sub trim is added with the hell on the bench, not during flight, so it never will affect the helis flight.

In contrast trimming in flight has the effect that it is commanding the BeastX to change, so the hell will want to roll/pitch/yaw continuously for that flight. If for some reason the hell is doing the roll/pitch/yaw on its own due to vibration, trimming may help--for that flight. But on the next pack, the BeastX will normalize it out, just like it does with sub trim.

Try it on the bench. When you add trim to aileron for example, the swash will begin to tilt and go to the limit since the hell is sitting on the bench and can't rotate (this is done after the BeastX initializes). Now disconnect the pack, and replug it back in and you will see that the the trim goes away.

I note that not all FBL systems work this way--so for example, the boards on the Blade micros including the 130X will keep a trim constant over a battery change. I think this is because that controller is looking for an absolute pulse width for centered sticks (1520us). So in that case you can trim cyclic and tail values to achieve that centered. I had to do that when I was using a Futaba Super7 with the Spectrum 2.4GHz rf module. I am guessing my old Super7 was out of specs, so I had to adjust trims on all cyclic and rudder channels to even allow me to take off without the swash taking off to max tilt.

[Epoweredrc]

Originally Posted by Uriah

Trim/subtrim on your transmitter is simply your transmitter sending control input on a specified channel without you moving the transmitter sticks. However, the BeastX has it's own built in subtrim in setup menu G, and the firmware doesn't need nor want your transmitter helping it out. What you've got your stick deadband menu (parameter menu E) set at will ultimately determine whether or not the BeastX will react to your transmitter's subtrim. Per the manual, don't use subtrims on the BeastX - they're simply not needed.

So you guys are talking about in the Parameter menu letter A and G correct?

Mine is stock settings in the Parameter

A
B=Solid Blue /TX
C=Solid red/medium
D=Solid red/medium
E=Flashing red /2
F=Purple/off
G=Purple/normal
H=Purple/Off

I have never messed with swash trim on the A menu.

I did have Sub trim on the Pitch on my DX7 but I spent another hour lastnight re adjusting my links and trying to get the swash level..I have no sub trim in it now. but For some reason when your in the Normal settings ( hold button down until stops flashing) and go to menu G to level the swash I could perfectly level the blades 0 pitch but when i got out of the menu back to flying mode it would be off (blades would not be at zero pitch) . I had to off set the pitch in the menu ( with it on purple,red or blu light) for it to be right when i got out of the menu, makes no sense to me. I do not think I had to do that with the other servos don't know why having to now..

it flew much better today, but now i have more - then + for some reason so guess going to reset the pitch.

I really need to buy a digital pitch gauge anyone recommend a brand? I have seen some say theirs didn't work right.. RClogger suppose to be a good one. I found one on ebay for like $20.


SO accordning to what Ahahn just said was if my heli was tilting left in flight if i put 5 clicks of right trim in it then the next flight after unplugging battery and pluging new pack in its still going to be leaning left and i will need 5 more clicks of trim in it to make i fly right. cause the unit resets each time.

Well glad my ZYX don't do that, I have flown it from day one with about 5 clicks of forward in it. on all three flight modes and its always been hands off no retrim needed.
Glad all units don't work the same, guess I have to get used to the AR if going to fly it.

[Murph_d]

I really need to buy a digital pitch gauge anyone recommend a brand? I have seen some say theirs didn't work right.. RClogger suppose to be a good one. I found one on ebay for like $20.

I like the Skyrc Micro Digital Pitch gauge http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route...product_id=183, very small and light. Also the Align Digital pitch Gauge http://www.amain.com/product_info.ph...al-Pitch-Gauge, pricier, good for bigger helis.

[DoubleCH]

Sounds like you guys are talking about different things. Subtrims on aileron/elevator for BX is a big no-no, period! Tons of experience before FBL controllers comes out doesn't count on whether you can subtrim an FBL controller or not. The algorithm within that particular FBL controller does. FBL controller is a totally different beast than FB heli setup.

Subtrim on the pitch channel... I still highly discourage it. The problem with subtrim on the pitch channel is that unlike flight trims (the little buttons on the side of the sticks) where they just shift the center values maintaining the same end values, subtrims shifts the entire range. If you use 10 clicks on the subtrim, it shifts the center by 10 clicks but also the top and bottom end points by 10 clicks. You're opening a different can of worms by doing subtrim on the pitch channel. Do it properly and calibrate the sticks. DO NOT add subtrim not even to just the pitch channel.

[DoubleCH]

Originally Posted by Epoweredrc

but For some reason when your in the Normal settings ( hold button down until stops flashing) and go to menu G to level the swash I could perfectly level the blades 0 pitch but when i got out of the menu back to flying mode it would be off (blades would not be at zero pitch) . I had to off set the pitch in the menu ( with it on purple,red or blu light) for it to be right when i got out of the menu, makes no sense to me. I do not think I had to do that with the other servos don't know why having to now..

It's definitely bad idea to have to offset pitch at setup G with light on. Again, that's opening another can of worms. Level all servo arms at setup G with light on and then zero pitch it. Exit setup mode and enter again (hold button until stop flashing). Right here at setup A, it should stay at zero pitch (servo arms perfectly level) regardless of collective stick input. If it's not zero pitch you did step G wrong. If it is, calibrate your sticks.