First heli = X2

[agrobatic]

I started looking at 450's, escalated to 700's, and now settled on 250 class. Why? Limited yard space, closely packed neighboring houses. My flight area is about 18'x18' with a lopped off corner. Unlimited in vertical direction except for a few branches. Don't feel like driving somewhere every time I want to fly. That's what killed my rc plane hobby a couple years back.

I like the oxy 3 but too big. Too many issues with Trex 250. X2 seems ideal.

I was hung up on fbl for a while for the short mast (I only want to do hard 3d [eventually, can barely hover now]). But I can live with a swash follower if everything else is right, as it seems to be with the x2. Still have a lot to learn, but fortunately there's a lot of info. Finless Bob, rc heli fun by John Salt (great reading), and this subforum.

1st step: ordering. Where should I order from? What kit/super combo etc? I want fbl if possible and high end components with bailout/recovery, etc. I'm planning to order two identical x2's.

Also, what component combos are tried and true for x2? Don't want to start out "tame". Using linear pitch curve with full negative from the outset.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm a noob but I'm reading voraciously and practicing sim a lot.

Someone said Don't push yourself too hard in 3d in my other thread, First heli?, in the 700 subforum. I'm not pushing myself. I'm compelled. Not to wax maniacal but I have supreme confidence in my ability to develop 3d skills.

-Mark

[anthony1]

with that small an area have you thought about an mcpx bl . it will teach you everything you need to know and wont get damaged( too much) in a crash , the x2 while small still needs a lot of room especially while learning, if your just trying to get your orientations down then it will be fine, but once you start progressing you will need more room until you get to the point where you have complete control then things can be tightened up.
the x2 doesn't crash badly but it is like any other big heli , things will bend and you will spend a lot of time fixing, just my opinion, I don't know at what level you are at now, but from your opening post you seem fairly new. the sim will only get you so far ,
as far as setup, i'm using futaba micro servos, a bit expensive , old , metal geared and haven't let me down once, fbl the only ones I can think of with bail out atm are ikon and bavarion demon, vbar will be coming out with a new one too which has bailout. I order all my x2 stuff from www.anythingheli.com they are very reasonable price wise and shipping is super quick. good luck with your venture
Anthony

[GravityJunkie]

Originally Posted by agrobatic

Limited yard space, closely packed neighboring houses. My flight area is about 18'x18' with a lopped off corner.

18', bordered by houses and a new pilot? Do not get the X2. As Anthony suggested, get a micro. It will be way safer to both you and the homes around you.

If you can barely hover, I would not recommend the X2. No matter how much room you have to fly, much less the little box you have to fly in.

[agrobatic]

I appreciate the advice, but it's too late. I already ordered an x2. And an oxy 3. It'll take me forever to gather all the stuff I need and build these. Meanwhile I'm slowly progressing on the sim and reading everything heli. I'll start out in a park and get proficient there before flying at home.

[dr_boom]

The X2 is the same size as the Oxy 3. I would recommend a 130X or MCPX BL for your yard. Save the X2 for the park.

[GravityJunkie]

Ha. I like that, full steam ahead.

The X2 is fantastic flier. Once you build up to it, I'll be awesome to fly.

If you've got the thumbs, you can full on 3D rip the X2 in a backyard:

[Kidqwk]

I would agree that the X2 can be a handful even in a small space. The bird that taught me the most, in terms of flying 3D, is the 130X. I have mastered all of the little nuances about the 130 so my frustration level is nowhere near what it used to be. I have 2 of them and they are my front yard fliers. If you're quick with TH 90% of the time you can pick it up and keep on flying. Do that and work your way up to the X2.

[SHYguy]

I must say now that the 180 CFX is out I really wouldn't recommend the X2 anymore. It was better than the 300X, but now the game has changed...

I'd say this is a good "best practise" size-step-plan:

1) Nano brushless
2) 180 CFX
3) 450 or 450 XL size (X3, Goblin 380, 450X and so on)
bigger...

The X2 is very cool looking and bloody fast. BUT:
-complex design
-VERY tiny screws
-not very long lasting (too quick wear)

Gaui should make a scaled down X3 - and make it the same size as the 180 CFX! I see the tail design is already a X3 copy

[OnceYouGoJack]

I agree that the X2 is certainly a handful (to fly and maintain) but it's so darned KYOOT! I bought an X5 which is my baby. It has always flown 100% perfectly, no tail kicks, shakes, or anything. The only thing I don't like about it is how scared I am of crashing it... Enter the X3: can be crashed over and over and over and begs for more punishment. I've had some issues with mine, but I think I have it dialed in now. It needs a big field, however, because on 6S it's a rocket.

I had 2 130Xs and a ncpx sitting on my shelf from my "backyard flying" days. Sold the 130s off and picked up an X2, thinking it would be my new backyard/parking lot heli. It flew perfectly with no tail kick or blowout at all. It, too, is a rocket, however. I think my belt is slipping (time to do the pulley mod). The X2 is a great little heli if it weren't for the belt mod necessity and the one-way bearings being made of glass. Hoping lynx will step up and make an upgrade but the X2 has been around a while so who knows if that'll ever happen.

They're releasing an Oxy2 in the next year or so, could be a viable 180CFX competitor!

Originally Posted by SHYguy

I must say now that the 180 CFX is out I really wouldn't recommend the X2 anymore. It was better than the 300X, but now the game has changed...

I'd say this is a good "best practise" size-step-plan:

1) Nano brushless
2) 180 CFX
3) 450 or 450 XL size (X3, Goblin 380, 450X and so on)
bigger...

The X2 is very cool looking and bloody fast. BUT:
-complex design
-VERY tiny screws
-not very long lasting (too quick wear)

Gaui should make a scaled down X3 - and make it the same size as the 180 CFX! I see the tail design is already a X3 copy

[agrobatic]

I'm just starting on my x2 build. It's actually my second heli now since I just finished building the Oxy 3.

I have the gaui 3600kv motor and the gaui 22A ESC, the gaui micro servos, and the nanotech 3 cell 1000mAh battery.

What range of headspeeds is recommended for the x2? What kind of throttle curves are used, and how do I calculate that?

What components are recommended, other than or including what I already have? Thanks.

[SHYguy]

I just went 100% flat.

Btw the stock ESC can be flashed with BLHeli so you get a governor.

The X2 is approx 100 grams lighter than an OXY 3.

it's tail heavy so move as much weight as you can forward.

[Murph_d]

Headspeeds come down to personal preference. For the X2, a workable range would be roughly 3800 to 4200. I would shoot for around 4000 to start and move up or down depending on your flying style.

For calculating, do an internet search for "Mr. Mel's headspeed calculator", it really helps get you in the ballpark you are looking for.

For throttle curve, depending on your AUW you can probably ignore a v-curve and go with a flat "curve" at a percentage that gets you in your desired headspeed range (Mr Mel's calculator), or use a governor if you prefer. With the stock pinion (15t ?) you're probably at around 70 to 80 %. In spite of what I said, try throwing a mild v-curve in there, you might like it. A v-curve somewhat mimics the feel of a governor.

I used the governor with my Talon25 ESC for awhile but I ended up going back to a flat "curve" . To me, it felt better without a governor. I ignore a normal mode and use 3 idle up modes. I like the lowest headspeed (UI1) for funnels and orientation practice, Middle headspeed (IU2) for the bulk of my mild 3d flying, and highest headspeed (IU3) for my feeble attempts at smack 3d or for windy conditions.

If you want to double check your headspeed there is an app (or apps) for mobile devices that work by sound. In my experience the one I use is pretty accurate.

A typical OXY3 weighs in around 600g or more (AUW). My X2 weighs 400g (AUW). I'm guessing that yours is around 460 or so. Considering the same size rotor disc, that much of difference will have a significant impact on how they fly. Again, personal preference, but I much prefer a lighter heli (with a little less power) to a pig heavy heli (with a little more power). Yes I have flown both.

To reference the previous response, my X2 is built with the motor mounted in the rear position, but depending on the battery I use, is still a little nose heavy (I put on a heavier tail servo to compensate) .

It just depends on how you build it.

As far as components, fly it with what you have and compare it to the Oxy3. I haven't used the Gaui servos or ESC and can't comment. I chose to go lightweight because of my experience with Trex250 and Blade 300x.

There are a couple of worthy mods, the most significant being the tail pulley mod (do a search in this forum). Depending on your flying style, it may or may not be a significant change, it's not an easy mod, but it will definitely give you more wiggle room with the tension adjustment of your tail belt ( and longer belt life).

Best of luck with your build. How do you like flying your OXY3?
Be sure to post your impressions after flying them both.
Actually, scratch that, I'm looking for a kindred spirit, If you don't like the X2 better, don't bother, I don't want to hear it.

[agrobatic]

Thanks guys. I haven't flown anything yet. Need more time on the simulator first. I'll keep you posted.

[SHYguy]

Originally Posted by Murph_d

To reference the previous response, my X2 is built with the motor mounted in the rear position, but depending on the battery I use, is still a little nose heavy (I put on a heavier tail servo to compensate) .

How on earth do you manage to get a nose heavy X2???

I've put all components as far forward as possible, even put the ESC under the battery, spaced forward the battery (950 mAh 3S) - still tail heavy... I'm contemplating moving the tail servo into the frame, under the FBL + a longer control rod...

You do check COG by holding the mains? (check both sides so it can "fall" with the help of the OWB)

[Murph_d]

Originally Posted by SHYguy

How on earth do you manage to get a nose heavy X2???

You do check COG by holding the mains? (check both sides so it can "fall" with the help of the OWB)

I was a little surprised, especially with the motor in the rear. My ar7200bx is flat in the belly which puts most of it forward of the main shaft and all wiring is up front hidden by the canopy.

Yeah, that's how I check the COG. With a glacier 1000mAh and the canopy on, it's just slightly nose heavy. With a hyperion 900mAh it's just slightly tail heavy.

If your 950mAh is a nanotech, those suckers are really light , ~68g or so, I use them in my trex250. A glacier 1000 is about 95g and gives me a good minute longer flight time.

I use the Lynx tailfin , I think it's lighter than stock but it can't be by much.

[SHYguy]

Aha, must be the battery then - thx!