Circuit and funnel flying tips

[Helli-Mike]

OK, I've been flying for 6 months now. Can hover and move around well (mostly nose away) can fly back and forth in front of me with (messy) turns at each end. Can even flip it backwards and sideways. But I cannot seem to get the hang of flying a circuit or funnels... can't figure out what controls to give it. Can someone give me a couple of good tips on how to get that going? I guess I need to understand the mechanics of it. Even the videos on here have not been successful and helping me get it! Thanks.

[gitbse]

Circuits are just constant turns. Nothing more complicated than that. FF turning to the left, you give left aileron to tilt the disc, then pull the circle around with back elevator, with a constant small amount of left rudder to correct the nose. Same thing to the right, except right aileron and right rudder.
Funnels are exactly the same, except rotated 90 degrees. You're still giving the same rudder correction, except you are pulling through the circle with aileron instead of elevator.

A good tip is to slow your sim speed down to half, then try it. Going that slow you will be able to see which direction to move the heli easier.

[Helli-Mike]

Won't the back elevator make the heli want to go backwards? How does it get it's forward momentum?

[SEBBY]

Because you tilt it over. So you are climbing but on a horizontal plane.

[Helli-Mike]

OK! That makes sense. Now I'm looking forward to trying it out! Thanks.

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by Helli-Mike

Even the videos on here have not been successful and helping me get it! Thanks.

even this one?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuMvvwu9kkg[/ame]

[stw1980]

i'm struggling with turns aswell..your videos are great and i have watched them all..only thing i find hard is the control movments are so fine its hard to define exacly what your fingers are doing..to you it's clear because you know what your doing..it would be great if the stick movements could be drawn in a graph to show exact movements and directions..in that case i would slow the video and study what the chopper does in relations to your stik inputs and corrections.if that makes sence..

[ziper_it]

There was a post in this forum where someone was explaining this by describing stick movements needed to correct the turn behavior.
I'm not able to explain by myself, but was something like: if the heli stops in a hover do this, if climb do this and do on.
Not sure if it is the right approach but would help to understand mistakes.

[SEBBY]

If the heli wants to climb up lean in more if the heli wants to climb 'out' of the funnel you are giving to much elevator through the turn. If the heli gets low lean out more.

[Helli-Mike]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

even this one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuMvvwu9kkg

That video was the best one I could find! Explained it very well, I thought! You make it look so easy.

But I'm still not getting it. Frustrating the &^%$ out of me too!!! Mostly banking too hard every time and crashing. Can't get the right amount of controls yet. Was hoping that any other tips might help... still working on them!

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by ziper_it

There was a post in this forum where someone was explaining this by describing stick movements needed to correct the turn behavior.
I'm not able to explain by myself, but was something like: if the heli stops in a hover do this, if climb do this and do on.
Not sure if it is the right approach but would help to understand mistakes.

Originally Posted by SEBBY

If the heli wants to climb up lean in more if the heli wants to climb 'out' of the funnel you are giving to much elevator through the turn. If the heli gets low lean out more.

It's much more involved than that. Sorry to bare bad news, but it's a delicate balance of all four controls: collective, rudder, aileron, and elevator. If you're "falling" for example, there are many ways to correct for this. For starters, how to correct highly depends on your forward speed, and the current radius of your turn. There's no one formula that you can follow, you have to correct for the given situation. You may need to correct your bank angle, the blade pitch, rudder input, or your turn radius. Most likely it will be subtle combination of all four. It's just something you'll get better at as you practice.

So Sebby, in your example I could argue that you could also correct for these mistakes with more or less rudder (or even less or more pitch) respectively. Which correction is "correct?" Depends on what the heli was doing before, and what you want the heli to do after (the correction). Each will have different results. How do you know what blend of corrections to make and which ones are "correct?" Experience...

[Helli-Mike]

When I first got this bird at Christmas, I couldn't even get it to hover! Now I CAN actually make it fly! So I know it's just patience and practice! But... it's frustrating!!!!! Guess that's what keeps the hobby so exciting. Thanks for all the input.

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by Helli-Mike

That video was the best one I could find! Explained it very well, I thought! You make it look so easy.

But I'm still not getting it. Frustrating the &^%$ out of me too!!! Mostly banking too hard every time and crashing. Can't get the right amount of controls yet. Was hoping that any other tips might help... still working on them!

Sounds like you are forgetting to "let go" of the aileron (or elevator) so to speak. Once you get the pitch angle of your banked turn established, you do not need any more input on the stick other than minor corrections to maintain it.

For example in a normal left hand turn you'll give a little left to bank the heli and pull through the turn with the elevator. Well once you get the heli banked a bit to the left you have to center the aileron stick or the heli will keep rolling over and go into the ground. This holds true with funnels too, except you are now using the elevator as the "aileron"...

Watch my video again and you'll see i give nearly no aileron inputs at all when I'm doing a nose or tail forward circuit (except for minor corrections). And no elevator inputs when doing a tail up or down funnel.

[DemonSpawn78]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Sounds like you are forgetting to "let go" of the aileron (or elevator) so to speak. Once you get the pitch angle of your banked turn established, you do not need any more input on the stick other than minor corrections to maintain it.

For example in a normal left hand turn you'll give a little left to bank the heli and pull through the turn with the elevator. Well once you get the heli banked a bit to the left you have to center the aileron stick or the heli will keep rolling over and go into the ground. This holds true with funnels too, except you are now using the elevator as the "aileron"...

Watch my video again and you'll see i give nearly no aileron inputs at all when I'm doing a nose or tail forward circuit (except for minor corrections). And no elevator inputs when doing a tail up or down funnel.

I too have been struggling with funnels. I've found your videos very helpful and easy to follow, I'm gonna try your tips later tonight.

Had s question on your piro flip video. I've been doing half piro flips starting inverted and going to the right on rudder, in your videos you say go left and you are rolling the cyclic the opposite, do you have to go the opposite way on the rudder?

[Rªzª]

Originally Posted by DemonSpawn78

I too have been struggling with funnels. I've found your videos very helpful and easy to follow, I'm gonna try your tips later tonight.

Had s question on your piro flip video. I've been doing half piro flips starting inverted and going to the right on rudder, in your videos you say go left and you are rolling the cyclic the opposite, do you have to go the opposite way on the rudder?

Yes left rudder is always cw cyclic movement, and right rudder is always ccw on the cyclic. This never changes.

[DemonSpawn78]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Yes left rudder is always cw cyclic movement, and right rudder is always ccw on the cyclic. This never changes.

Thank you for the reply, that's what I thought. Now I just need to figure out how to string them together.

Have you done any videos on tic tocs?

(sorry, got off topic a little)

[Luigi_tuga]

It may be easier if you start doing the funnels wide and very horizontal, because you don't need much speed to do it and everything will happen at a slower pace.
Then you will be able to increase the banking angle, increasing also the pitch to keep the centrifugal forces that keep the heli flying.
In a few weeks you will be doing them hard and fast, keep on working.
Funnels are a lot of fun
Right now i'm working on transitions between funnels, in all orientations, a lot of sim work!

[gitbse]

Cut your sim speed to half so you can actually watch the heli while it's moving. You will be able to see it and also have time to think about where it's going. At full speed if you need to think, it's in the ground. That's why slow sim speed can help.
If a video doesn't help you, no forum advice will help you move the sticks. Cut the sim speed to like 30% if you have to, the slower the better.

*Warning though ... bring it back up to full speed before flying a real bird. If you go from 30 or 50% straight to a real heli .. you're asking for trouble.

[Helli-Mike]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Sounds like you are forgetting to "let go" of the aileron (or elevator) so to speak. Once you get the pitch angle of your banked turn established, you do not need any more input on the stick other than minor corrections to maintain it.

For example in a normal left hand turn you'll give a little left to bank the heli and pull through the turn with the elevator. Well once you get the heli banked a bit to the left you have to center the aileron stick or the heli will keep rolling over and go into the ground. This holds true with funnels too, except you are now using the elevator as the "aileron"...

Watch my video again and you'll see i give nearly no aileron inputs at all when I'm doing a nose or tail forward circuit (except for minor corrections). And no elevator inputs when doing a tail up or down funnel.

I think you've hit on a problem for sure. I am holding onto the aileron.

[Helli-Mike]

That definately made the difference. Flew my first circuit!!!! Thanks again.