AR7200BX in a fixed wing airplane?

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

So a buddy of mine is convinced he can drop an AR7200BX into a fixed wing plane (namely a Parkzone Extra 300) and it would function like a regular 3 axis gyro. I am convinced he is wrong. I was so convinced I offered to bet him a 300X on it, but he wasn't THAT confident. He is new to helicopters, and just bought a 450X coming from an MCPX, and has never even gone through a BeastX setup. I am thinking menu points H, J, K, and N would make it very difficult, if not impossible to get the BX to work properly as a 3 axis gyro for fixed wing applications.

So did I miss out on a great opportunity for a free 300X, or was I lucky he didn't take the bet?

[InFocus]

I think it might be possible.
How? maybe set the swash type to 'mechanical',

Plug the elevator, aileron, and rudder servos to the right slots.

collective range would have no meaning.
cyclic limits would determine the max throw's you could get in elevator and aileron.
tail servo endpoints you would use for rudder.

I think you for sure would want rudder in 'rate' mode, not heading hold.

What happens when you fly:
Say your flying level: and you give up elevator for a second or 2, then go back to center stick..
-response: elevator servo moves and when the airplane reaches the angle prescribed, the servo would re-center. and the plane would be an up angle X.
If the wind would try to make the plane change its angle, beastx would compensate with a servo command to compensate.

One part that may seem strange, if you give rudder, on most RC planes, this would usually cause it to also bank a bit. But the beastx would compensate for the bank, so the plane would remain flat.. This is also why piro compensation direction would still need to be correct..

on edit: I'm completely wrong. there is no way it could work.. But I might try it if your offering a 300x..

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Originally Posted by InFocus

I think it might be possible.
How? maybe set the swash type to 'mechanical',

Plug the elevator, aileron, and rudder servos to the right slots.

collective range would have no meaning.
cyclic limits would determine the max throw's you could get in elevator and aileron.
tail servo endpoints you would use for rudder.

I think you for sure would want rudder in 'rate' mode, not heading hold.

What happens when you fly:
Say your flying level: and you give up elevator for a second or 2, then go back to center stick..
-response: elevator servo moves and when the airplane reaches the angle prescribed, the servo would re-center. and the plane would be an up angle X.
If the wind would try to make the plane change its angle, beastx would compensate with a servo command to compensate.

One part that may seem strange, if you give rudder, on most RC planes, this would usually cause it to also bank a bit. But the beastx would compensate for the bank, so the plane would remain flat.. This is also why piro compensation direction would still need to be correct..

on edit: I'm completely wrong. there is no way it could work.. But I might try it if your offering a 300x..

I think in flight the rudder channel would be the biggest problem. On a helicopter there is very little aerodynamic resistance to yaw, so if you input rudder the nose of the helicopter yaws easily and stays at the angle until commanded otherwise. My understanding of how a FBL controller (not just BX, but we'll keep the discussion centered on it for now) works is that it interprets control stick movement as a desired rate of change, not just a desired servo/control surface deflection. This is why you need to be careful when on the ground. I see the same problem with yaw on a fixed wing application. If you were to input rudder, you would have the aerodynamic centering effect of the vertical stab working against that control input, thus the BX would continue to add in more rudder until you have a full on rudder hardover. It would constantly be fighting against the wind.

Now, I would absolutely LOVE for Horizon to produce a receiver with an integrated 3 axis gyro designed for fixed wing applications. It would be PERFECT for jets and 3D airplanes. I have both and love them, but they can be a bear to keep pointed straight, and the jets love to dance. An AR8000 with integrated AS3X would be absolutely AMAZING, and I would probably buy two immediately to go in my Habu 32 and Edge 540.

[Rago]

Don't they use a 3 axis gyro in that small beast airplane?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a4XN6ZhNRU[/ame]

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Yes, it has AS3X integrated into its RX, but to my understanding the AS3X has been specifically tuned for fixed wing applications. The same basic architecture of the heli applications is there, but the firmware is different. I bet you could flash a different firmware onto an AR7200BX to make it compatible with a fixed wing application, but the bet was that he could cut the 7200BX off of his 450X and plunk it down into the Extra 300 with little to no additional programming required.

[EEngineer]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Tanerite

So a buddy of mine is convinced he can drop an AR7200BX into a fixed wing plane (namely a Parkzone Extra 300) and it would function like a regular 3 axis gyro. I am convinced he is wrong. I was so convinced I offered to bet him a 300X on it, but he wasn't THAT confident. He is new to helicopters, and just bought a 450X coming from an MCPX, and has never even gone through a BeastX setup. I am thinking menu points H, J, K, and N would make it very difficult, if not impossible to get the BX to work properly as a 3 axis gyro for fixed wing applications.

So did I miss out on a great opportunity for a free 300X, or was I lucky he didn't take the bet?

On page 4 of the AR7200BX manual, there is a specific warning NOT to use the AR7200BX on flybarred helis or fixed wing aircraft.....

Besides, who needs a gyro to fly a Parkzone Extra 300...or any other fixed wing aircraft?

FWIW

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Originally Posted by EEngineer

On page 4 of the AR7200BX manual, there is a specific warning NOT to use the AR7200BX on flybarred helis or fixed wing aircraft.....

Besides, who needs a gyro to fly a Parkzone Extra 300...or any other fixed wing aircraft?

FWIW

Are you sure you're reading it right? The way I read it "flybarred" modifies both the words "helis" and "fixed wing aircraft".... I don't intend to use it on a fixed wing aircraft!

In all seriousness, the PZ Extra 300 was just going to be a low threat test sled for it. He's got a 1/3 scale Extra that would be nice to throw a gyro system in, and I would put it in my Habu and Edge 540T. While not essential to flight, gyros really do help with a lot of the high performance aircraft to dampen out things like dutch roll (on swept wing planes) or tail oscillations on short coupled 3D ships.

[azezeil]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Tanerite

Are you sure you're reading it right? The way I read it "flybarred" modifies both the words "helis" and "fixed wing aircraft".... I don't intend to use it on a fixed wing aircraft!

In all seriousness, the PZ Extra 300 was just going to be a low threat test sled for it. He's got a 1/3 scale Extra that would be nice to throw a gyro system in, and I would put it in my Habu and Edge 540T. While not essential to flight, gyros really do help with a lot of the high performance aircraft to dampen out things like dutch roll (on swept wing planes) or tail oscillations on short coupled 3D ships.

Hobbyking has a 3 axis gyro. I haven't tried it yet because I fly small (32 inch) foamies and can't spare the extra weight for it. I want to say its about 10g. It's a stand alone 3 axis unlike the as3x so you can use it with whatever you want.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Originally Posted by azezeil

Hobbyking has a 3 axis gyro. I haven't tried it yet because I fly small (32 inch) foamies and can't spare the extra weight for it. I want to say its about 10g. It's a stand alone 3 axis unlike the as3x so you can use it with whatever you want.

Ya, I've looked at that as well as the Eagle Tree guardian. I'm not going to trust a $1500 Habu to a $14 Hobby King gyro box. Gyros do a LOT of good for you, but you surrender your soul to the reliability of the gyro. It's a bit of a double edged sword in that regard.

[Elios000]

Futaba has a gyro out JUST for planks now you would just need 3 of them 1 for pitch and one for roll one on yaw

btw you can take of in HH mode on plank for yaw but you need to switch to rate once in the air

rate will just act like yaw damper in full scale

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Originally Posted by Elios000

Futaba has a gyro out JUST for planks now you would just need 3 of them 1 for pitch and one for roll one on yaw

btw you can take of in HH mode on plank for yaw but you need to switch to rate once in the air

rate will just act like yaw damper in full scale

I've done that in a few applications (F-86, Sbach 342). Works well, but I would like more! I'm greedy!

[wdelorme]

Hey the Beastx costs between 239 and 250. There are gyro systems for fixed wing aircraft that are much more cost effective eagletree systems offers the Guardian 2D/3D that is 75-80 dollars and works awesomely has heading hold or 3D mode all in the flick of a switch on your transmitter.

[prebres]

It's been done. 7200bx in a Dynam Sbach.

sent from my DX18QQ

[chrisconn2]

HH makes one http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...eiver-SPMAR635

[EEngineer]

What happens when you jockey the throttle?....

Doesn't the CCPM kick in?

Wouldn't the aileron, AUX 1, and pitch servo react together...causing, say, the port aileron going full up, the starboard wing servo going full down, and the elevator going full up.....

All you need know is some left rudder and you are doing snap rolls to port....

Depending upon linkage and reverse switches....

A snap roll button using the throttle stick.....

If there was a way to eliminate the CCPM action, I think it very well might work.

Perhaps that's what they're doing with the Park Zone "Visionaire".......

[toys2cars2toys]

Originally Posted by EEngineer

What happens when you jockey the throttle?....

Doesn't the CCPM kick in?

Wouldn't the aileron, AUX 1, and pitch servo react together...causing, say, the port aileron going full up, the starboard wing servo going full down, and the elevator going full up.....

All you need know is some left rudder and you are doing snap rolls to port....

Depending upon linkage and reverse switches....

A snap roll button using the throttle stick.....

If there was a way to eliminate the CCPM action, I think it very well might work.

Perhaps that's what they're doing with the Park Zone "Visionaire".......

This is a pretty old thread and as mentioned there is a dedicated plank version now available (and a cheap copy from HobbyKing too)

But to answer your questions
Collective pitch isn't mixed on the BX - just in the TX, so no problem there

In terms of the other channels, "infocus" got it earlier, set the swash mix to "mechanical" and that removes mixing with the BX, all channels will be treated seperately

[EEngineer]

Good to know, thanks.

[orbit]

Hi all,

FWIW, I tried one of those cheap HobbyKing 3 axis gyros, and even on the low gain settings it turned my 105mph pusher jet into an oscillating uncontrollable missile... the gyro in it did not seem to be able to work at anything above 50mph, it would just send the plane out of control ... so I wouldnt recommend them in any plane that is moving faster than that.

My opinion, leave the ar7200bx in the heli's, and if you really NEED to try a gyro in a plane, get a spmar635 so that you have a chance programming it and keeping it under control.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Elios000]

might want to try the AS3X RX from Spekturm
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...eiver-SPMAR635
this is tuned for fixed wing use

Eagle Tree also has one that might work that works with any RX
http://eagletreesystems.com/guardian/


both work great so take a look one of them

[lrs5]

I'm 99.9% sure James from the RC Today Show uses BeastX all the time in his airplanes. I've heard him quote a few times on the podcast that he likes to be able to switch between heading hold and rate mode on the tail. Their site is rctodayshow.com if your interested in trying to contact them. Also, Chris (also from the show) has an account on here. I think its "JustPlaneChris." They also have a forum of their own. Check them out, very nice guys, and always willing to help...