XXTREME - Extended Flight Times and Setup

[TGAMO]

Good afternoon,
I have spent quite some time reading threads and postings as they relate to Mikado heli's in an attempt to educate myself on the brand and thoughts on the product line. I have decided that I would like to build an XXTREME, and equip it so that a low head speed, and extended flight times are possible - (20 -25 mins.) But would like the flexibility to bump the head speed if so desired. All suggestions and comments are appreciated.


Please note that it is difficult to explain expressions when typing in a forum. Do not think that anything I am trying to relay is in a condescending manner, or any other form of pessimism. I am requesting help and suggestions – if you are willing to offer anything - it would be greatly appreciated. I have read the efficient flight project threads and this has given me some direction.


I do have certain things that I would ask that everyone whom is to offer information keep a few things in mind.


1.) I would appreciate that someone doesn't offer that a different brand, or different class of heli would suit my needs better. I am interested in this brand, and this size.


2.) When offering any ideas please keep in mind that I would like to stay high end, I am generally not attracted to budget based components unless it just makes sense. For example – batteries, or other type of consumables like blades. If generic batteries and blades or other consumables are cheaper and just as good – I always appreciate ways of saving money.

I have taken observation that a few manufacturers are coming up with new ESC’s for this class of heli to handle the higher amperage draws that the larger batteries and motors are demanding. Is it possible to set up - so that the same components can be programed for different head speeds without changing hardware? For example - can I have a few different programs that would enable 800RPM, 1000RPM, and maybe a 1700-1900RPM for when aggressiveness is desired? Or is that too much of a swing for one gear ratio to handle? I am aware that you can change programing to your desired throttle and head speed level, but most ESC’s do not seem to do well when programmed to lower voltage levels to slow down the rotor speed. They get hot and overheat. I guess my ignorance on what the bigger ESC’s are capable of is the factor here.

I have read that different pack configurations can also be used to lower the voltage to slow down the head speed so you can run the esc at a higher limit - but that seems to limit the head speed entirely based upon voltage at the pack. So as your head speed increases you need different packs configured for the appropriate voltage to correspond to the desired head speed. I don’t think that is the way to go - but maybe it is. Sounds like a bunch of batteries...


My radio setup is a JR12x - I am invested in this brand but not opposed to mixing hardware if it is better suited for the job – I see that many guys are leaning towards the Futaba hi-torque brushless servos, or the German servos listed at the Mikado site.

Lots of questions – Thanks in advance for any suggestions, and once again please do not take offense to anything that was typed, I am just hoping for suggestions, and it is difficult to ask so much without upsetting someone that may have misinterpreted the way I typed my questions…

[TGAMO]

Is this a Tar Baby or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[jtjohn1]

To early to be able to tell you anything. Nobody knows what pinons are going to be available for it etc,

I don't know how well the YGE ESCs handle low throttle percentages etc.

I am sure the bits you will need to do what you want will be available. Just not sure WHEN they will be available (IE Kontronics ESCs handle low throttle percentages REALLY well but we don't know when the Cosmic will be available etc)

[TGAMO]

Thanks for the reply - what are your thoughts on custom packs to control head speed based upon voltage? This seems a bit excessive to me.

[GimpyGolden]

I know you'd rather have one setup but I think 14S for 17-1800 and a set of 12S for the Low HS work. Seeing your shooting for 20+ minutes you may be satisfied with a 1 flight pack of each.

Maybe some asymmetrical blades too, they help a lot.
SpinBlades doesn't make em yet it seem but with the 800 class coming on I am sure they will, maybe contact them on this.

YGE is supposed to have FreeWheel same as Jive to help with lower throttle% but I don't think VB gov allows that much flexibility with %'s

[Laurens]

I'd suggest going 14s, and look for semi symmetrical blades. This is an easy way to be able to reduce headspeed.

What is your flying style? Light aerobatics?

[gravydrive]

Your packs might not have to be that "custom". Depending on the gearing, you could hook up your 2 x 7S packs in series (14S1P) for high headspeed, then in parallel (7S2P) for low headspeeds. All that would require is a series and parallel wiring harness, very easy to make, plus you would be using the same packs. This is what some do for low headspeeds on the 600SE.

[worldofmaya]

Originally Posted by GimpyGolden

YGE is supposed to have FreeWheel same as Jive to help with lower throttle% but I don't think VB gov allows that much flexibility with %'s

VBar doesn't really care about that, low-throttle gov behaviour is better than for example low throttle gov on a Jive. But this really stresses Escs.
Freewheel causes many problems with YGE. At least that's my observation using them on different models and helping solve problems on other pilots machines...

Speaking about the new Logo... it's not on the market, there's no one besides some Mikado team pilots and of course Dave Dahl having experience with this model...

Longer flight time in general is pretty much always the same, lower head-speed, optimized gearing, smooth flight style, weight and blades. When using really low head-speeds like 1000rpm and below asymmetrical blades like the ones by Spinblades are a nice option. Just check out threads for the Logo 600 SE and the TDR...
-Klaus

[TGAMO]

Thanks for all the input guys.
As far as answers are concerned - Laurens - Yes light Acrobatic, and mild 3d rarely - just not my style...
I am really hoping for a scale body kit for this - (I have read rumors that it is being considered.) Maye a larger version of the 500 But I believe that it was the EU - that was being considered.
Also Thanks for the suggestion on the series and parallel harness Gravydrive. I hadn't considered that, even though now that you mention it I do remember vaguely reading something on this a while back.
I am still very interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the new ESC's are capable of.
Thanks again.

[prototype3a]

Maybe it is just me but even for light aerobatic flying, 7s in a 800 size seems like a terrible idea. I would be concerned that a current spike at 7s would blow up my ESC.

Remember that reducing the voltage by half will double the current and at least quadruple the stress on the ESC.

As most others are saying, it is probably best to wait for the LogoXX to be released and then see what options are available. I'm surprised Dave hasn't chimed in yet since I've read that he has been experimenting with lower headspeeds on it.

[gravydrive]

I have no idea how it will affect amp draw, I'm just throwing out ideas because I know it's been done before. Headspeed will be halved, so I don't think current draw will quite be doubled, but again, I have no idea.

[TGAMO]

Thanks for all the feedback guys - this is what I was looking for.

[dahld]

@ prototype3a,

"I'm surprised Dave hasn't chimed in yet since I've read that he has been experimenting with lower headspeeds on it."

Comment: I don't think I've much to add, as the original poster wants to go out to 20+ minutes...something I've no experience with on the XXtreme.

All I've done in the past is adjust the production set-up to a lower head speed via the throttle to achieve flights in the arena of 10 minutes, using 1400ish head speeds.

I think what the OP wants is comments on possible custom set-ups using ultra-low speeds, for ultra long (20+minute) flights. That means possibly different cell counts, battery capacities, pinions, motor kv's, and ESC's. None of which I have tried or tested for the purpose of ulrta-long flight times.

And I usually try and not run-on and speculate about stuff I've no experience with or never personally tired (-:

(-: Dave

[TGAMO]

dahld;I think what the OP wants is comments on possible custom set-ups using ultra-low speeds, for ultra long (20+minute) flights. That means possibly different cell counts, battery capacities, pinions, motor kv's, and ESC's. None of which I have tried or tested for the purpose of ulrta-long flight times.

And I usually try and not run-on and speculate about stuff I've no experience with or never personally tired (-:

(-: Dave
__________________________________________________ ____________________
Dahld - thanks for visting the thread - that is exactly what i am looking for - just having a hard time getting info. thanks again for helping....

Regards

[TGAMO]

So anyone try to see how far they can turn down the stock ESC for extended flight times - I am still debating if I should wait for the Kpontronic/Pyro combo, or can the stock Scorpion set up handle the lower speeds without overheating. - Should this thread be moved to the XXtreme Sub?

[aviatorflyer]

I've got my low end at 1000 rpm. You can almost see the blades turn. No problems so far.

[TGAMO]

1000 RPM how much flight time can you get out of your setup? - Is it possible to fly at 750 - 800 RPM?

[aviatorflyer]

After 10 minutes I still have 26.9 in the batteries. It will go longer still breaking the batteries don't want to discharge to low.

[maarset]

Does anyone really want to fly more than min????


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[TGAMO]

Yes I am interested in the xtended flight times 20 -25 mins as I would like to get a scale body and I know that the heavier body will decrease the overal flight times considerably. Has anyone heard rumors of the maybe's on the scale model body I heard the Euro Copter, but what model of the EU?