Scorpion HK-5035

[Fabe1202]

Very nice!

I'm going to rewind mine too.
I finally found a place to buy the isolation plates.

But I'm not sure which wire I should use, 1,7 or 1,8.

[_Dekker]

Originally Posted by Fabe1202

Very nice!

I'm going to rewind mine too.
I finally found a place to buy the isolation plates.

But I'm not sure which wire I should use, 1,7 or 1,8.

Have you decided what to do yet?

Here is another HK-5035 rewind.

Before:
Kv: 382rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 1,75A @12.5V
R: 13mOhm
Termination: Delta
Multistrand: 24x0.33mm
Copper surface: 23.6mm^2
Mass: 688gr (of which 123gr copper+insulation: 18% of motor weight)



Measured generator voltage over 2 phases:


After:
Kv: 433rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 2A @12.5V
R: 7.5mOhm
Termination: YY
Mono wire: 1.8mm
Copper surface: 28mm^2 (+18.5%)
Mass: 728gr (of which 163gr copper+insulation: 22% of motor weight)







Measured generator voltage over 2 phases:


Especially the waveform of the phase voltage is a big difference. If anybody is able to elaborate on this (yes the sine looks really good, but is it better for reliable esc operation and why?) feel free to contribute!

[HeliFX]

dekker

the scope really demonstrates an interesting visual display of the difference between the stock and rewind.

mark improvement on the `R` readings.

still learning so can't contribute as much as I'd like.

too bad Ralph is no longer available to provide his opinions and knowledge

thanks for sharing

[Todd Moriarty]

I am far from an EE, but the waveform looks much cleaner and more natural for the rewind. the original didn't peak smoothly

That jaggedness at the ends of the original waveform screams inefficiency at me

[powercroco]

12N10P5035evo 5+5x1,8YY.
evo has shorter winding room, it's a cooling optimized winding for a powerfull "suzi laos" with 3 blade rotorhead.






n spec= 436/V (yge 320UHV, 18°)
tested up to 55V (16S) and 275A for some seconds.

[Raptorapture]

Very nice. Interesting that the kv's are so close yet the windings would suggest a bigger difference. Must be the impact of EVO?

[_Dekker]

HKIII-5035 YY 11t 390kv 1.7mm
For Xxtreme 800

The HKIII has the EVO stator shape, with less space for copper as compared to the older smooth rotor version like Mikado sells for the Xxtreme 800
Upside is that you can fill this stator to the max without saturation risks.

Before:
Kv: 404rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 2.15A @13.4V
R: 11.8mOhm
Termination: Delta
Multistrand: 9.33 turns with 22x0.33mm
Copper surface: 17.5mm^2
Mass: 713gr without connectors





After:
Kv: 390rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 2A @13.4V
R: 9.0mOhm
Termination: YY
Mono wire: 11 turns with 1.7mm
Copper surface: 25mm^2 (+42%)
Mass: 765gr without connectors

[_Dekker]

HKIII-5035 DD 581kv 13t 1.6mm

Something different, intended for a ducted fan application:
Wound double delta with 6 identical winding groups.
Each phase has four wires.

Before: (looks like the one in previous post)
Kv: 404rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 2.15A @13.4V
R: 11.8mOhm
Termination: Delta
Multistrand: 9.33 turns with 22x0.33mm
Copper surface: 17.5mm^2
Mass: 713gr without connectors

After:
Kv: 581rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 3.2A @13.4V
R: 4.0mOhm
Termination: DD
Mono wire: 13 turns with 1.6mm
Copper surface: 26mm^2 (+48%)
Mass: 777gr without connectors

[Vinger]

Great work again, one day I shall be able to create motor porn like this!

[andersn]

does owner of new motor also have a 4540? would be great for comparison

[erk700]

Bert..love it
My xxtreme is alive now..
Thank you!!!

[WayFastWilly]

I am building a logo 800 stretch to 950 and I am looking for advice on what motor to use for this massive machine.....

My math is coming up with around 330kv requirement, I see that they have a pyro 850-31, would this be the way to go?

I currently run a pyro 800-40 competition in my other logo 800 with a kosmik 200 and I really like the way it flies, so I am looking for similar results in the 950mm heli.

Or would it be more efficient to do a scorpion 5035 rewind for less kv?

Would anyone (Mr. Dekker?) be willing to pm quote me a price to do a rewind???

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge everyone........

[powercroco]

you read this answer to your question in 4540 thread ?

https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=88

I only ask, because of there was no answer / reaction from your side to the linked post.

[1BOHO]

Originally Posted by _Dekker

Have you decided what to do yet?

Here is another HK-5035 rewind.

Before:
Kv: 382rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 1,75A @12.5V
R: 13mOhm
Termination: Delta
Multistrand: 24x0.33mm
Copper surface: 23.6mm^2
Mass: 688gr (of which 123gr copper+insulation: 18% of motor weight)



Measured generator voltage over 2 phases:


After:
Kv: 433rpm/V (YGE 18deg)
Io: 2A @12.5V
R: 7.5mOhm
Termination: YY
Mono wire: 1.8mm
Copper surface: 28mm^2 (+18.5%)
Mass: 728gr (of which 163gr copper+insulation: 22% of motor weight)







Measured generator voltage over 2 phases:


Especially the waveform of the phase voltage is a big difference. If anybody is able to elaborate on this (yes the sine looks really good, but is it better for reliable esc operation and why?) feel free to contribute!

Hello Dekker,
Great question.With respect to esc operation I wonder what the nice generation wave means too since most sensorless commutations algorithms look at the zero cross points of the non driven phase not the peaks for timing. Is a better comparison made when its wound at the same kv and termination as the factory ? Meaning a delta wind at the same kv for the rewind. Youve certainly created a generator with a cleaner sine voltage.Id think without real test the uniformity of your wiring is what is responsible for the cleaner sine generation. Maybe you should look at commutation of the active terminals on the scope both winds driven by the esc for better answers.....

I also wonder how you take your kv numbers. ? If the frequency is 96.62 and the Peak to Peak voltage is 5.64 it seems to suggest a kv of 1027.

If this is indeed 433kv please correct my incorrect calculations or confirm the scopes readings.

[WayFastWilly]

"you read this answer to your question in 4540 thread ?
https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=88
I only ask, because of there was no answer / reaction from your side to the linked post."


For some crazy reason I never saw that...... couldn't find it... still learning helifreak site I guess.... I am interested in what a prototype 5040 would run.....

just figured out how to subscribe to a thread!! Sorry for that

[Bladecpnitro]

Dekker, your winding skills are beyond amazing man, much like Powercroco's. Are you winding the 1st phase of every group first so the parallel pliers work well?

[_Dekker]

Originally Posted by 1BOHO

Hello Dekker,
Great question.With respect to esc operation I wonder what the nice generation wave means too since most sensorless commutations algorithms look at the zero cross points of the non driven phase not the peaks for timing. Is a better comparison made when its wound at the same kv and termination as the factory ? Meaning a delta wind at the same kv for the rewind. Youve certainly created a generator with a cleaner sine voltage.Id think without real test the uniformity of your wiring is what is responsible for the cleaner sine generation. Maybe you should look at commutation of the active terminals on the scope both winds driven by the esc for better answers.....

I also wonder how you take your kv numbers. ? If the frequency is 96.62 and the Peak to Peak voltage is 5.64 it seems to suggest a kv of 1027.

If this is indeed 433kv please correct my incorrect calculations or confirm the scopes readings.

Late reply, only saw it just now..
You have to use the correct rpm in the formula, so 96.62Hz needs to be divided by 3 (it's a three phase motor). I can confirm the scope readings are correct.
In that case you end up at "only 342rpm/V" but this method is the so called drill press kv measurement and seems to give very low numbers compared to what an actual esc does. I checked this with various other measurements I did.
With my test esc I indeed measured 433rpm/V.

[_Dekker]

Originally Posted by Bladecpnitro

Dekker, your winding skills are beyond amazing man, much like Powercroco's. Are you winding the 1st phase of every group first so the parallel pliers work well?

Thanks.
If you mean that I wind the uneven teeth first then yes that is what I try to do to get more consistent windings. Indeed the pliers work well in this situation.

[_Dekker]

This is my first bi-filar wind. The reason was I did not have very thick wire laying around and did not want to use extra thick isoplates to handle such thick wire (it adds wire length). And I wanted to spare my hands
So I wound it with 2x1.4mm wire which equals one 1,98mm wire.

After:
Kv: 536rpm/V
Io: 3.3A @14.6V
R: 4.9mOhm
Termination: YY
Double wire: 8 turns with 1.4mm
Copper surface: 24.6mm^2 (+ ~40%)
Mass: 764gr without connectors