'corkscrew' manuever. how do you do it

[neverland]

hi. a few days ago the interesting looking 'corkscrew manuever' was discussed on the general section but it is pretty difficult to learn. ive studied carefully the youtube video that compares this with piro tic tocs, and replicated the stick movements in the sim, but its a big old mess. yeah i know, you cant just replicate stick inputs and expect a manuever to happen like magic. we all know it doesnt work like that haha. anyway, can someone please describe exactly how to do it.

[OnTheSnap]

It's just a variation on horizontal funnels.

Nick Maxwell One Tank Tip: Horizontal Funnels (2 min 42 sec)

[Number]

The way I learned it was to come towards yourself (well, not exactly straight towards yourself obviously because safety lol) and give right aileron/left rudder simultaneously. It will end up tail down/out and nose up/towards you. If you keep doing this movement continuously and get the timing right you can turn it into a corkscrew. As seen at 0:36 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA1_...g93kYi&index=1

Eventually you'll get the movement and you won't have to start it that way and you'll be able to just do it. Eventually you'll be able to do a woohoo, which is basically just a single, stationary corkscrew. Note: He does right rudder in these, but it's basically the same thing.

woohoos 2:30 in this video, corkscrews at 2:09

LOGO 690 SX | VTX 697 (3 min 49 sec)

[neverland]

thanks for the advice on this one guys. there seems to be a lot of different variations and orientations, making it tricky work out. one observation (and correct me if im wrong). i said in the other thread that to me a 'corkscrew' was an open barrel roll. now the funny thing (and it would be cool if it was true) is if you highly 'abbreviate' that set of inputs to be on the spot, you get a very similar looking 'rolling twisting thing' to this corkscrew. the stick inputs look similar too. so is it correct that the two maneuvers are related? its the only way ive found an 'in' on this so far. although nick maxwells vid is help full its still not easy to see what hes doing. Just a variation of horizontal funnels is not helpful is you dont know how to do horizontal funnels

[richardv]

How are your single-piro piro tictocs? I imagine if you have control of those, you can start minimising the stirring just down to aileron with corrections.

[neverland]

Im good on piro tic tocs. Can reverse them and all sorts. Not sure if i can miss an input out. You know what muscle memory is like with these things. Might have to forget these as i really dont understand them. Oh well , cant do everything.

[OnTheSnap]

Yah, focus on mastering funnels, and also tightening funnels until they stay in one place. Once you can do this, try it horizontally managing the collective to keep it in the air.

[neverland]

i can do funnels in all orientations, but its nothing like a funnel. you train for a long time to do them flat and horizontal so shifting them from horizontal to a weird angle is going to be very difficult. and there is no collective up down input with funnels either. but i shall have another go (one thing i am is persistent lol), but cant promise i will get any where. im an old pilot and a bit set in my ways

thanks for the advice though

[richardv]

This is how I'm trying to learn them. Stabilised piro TT into Corkscrew and back again.

[neverland]

nice piro tic tocking. but i cant really see any change to another maneuver. maybe this one is more for the performer than the audience

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by neverland

nice piro tic tocking. but i cant really see any change to another maneuver. maybe this one is more for the performer than the audience

Depends how well you execute it. Really clean piro tic tocs can be pretty flat and crisp. Like a normal tic toc but with yaw rotation. Where the 45 degree funnel (corkscrew) rotates the angle of the disk quite a bit.

I'm not the cleanest at it, but I can drive the heli around while doing the piro tic toc (like in a vertical loop). To do this you have to have some control of the disk angle through the maneuver. So mine haven't gotten kind of flatter as I improved with them.

1:25 in this video is my standard PTT where I intentionally try to work it into a center and lower position. Actually when you practice any maneuver that's stationary, it's good to try and intentionally move it around to learn the corrections.

Protos Max Leggero Winter Flight at Bayside (3 min 23 sec)

[kfjensen]

Hey neverland, you might want to adjust your tail piro rate faster or slower so that you can replicate the stick movements in the video from Jonas. What sim are you using? Maybe slow down the simulation speed to 50% or so and then then tune the tail so that you can replicate the the maneuver at full stick deflection. Watching the video from Jonas, his tail piro rate seems to be around 520°/sec. To get a similar looking speed in Phoenix I'm at 420°/sec.

[neverland]

I use phoenix too and always slow the tail piro rate down a lot as they are set far too fast. I will just keep practicing, hoping something will fall into place. I still think im on to something with my comparison with barrel rolls. Have you tried a barrel roll in place to see what i mean. Surely thats a sideways funnel of sorts