Show your Pantera Pictures and Videos!

[forvols]

Posted this in another thread but decided to post here as well. No hot dog level flying here, in fact you'll see me putzing around after maneuvers trying to figure out what I want to try next. Completely unorganized flight and plenty of ugliness to provide a good laugh for those who can actually do the stuff correctly.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYVxWp99x9A[/ame]

[crash.n.dash05]

Not bad.. the camera man is smooth.... not gona lie tho, at the end i was hoping for the hot chick off the weather channel to pop-up and give me ....uh...uh....the weekend outlook.... ( and i mean that in a gooooood way.... btw) lol... Doubt that i get to visit panteradise this weekend... but ill get to let my 6yr old nephew fly my 4site again hopefully..when i go to mckinney tx saturday...

[forvols]

Originally Posted by crash.n.dash05

Not bad.. the camera man is smooth...

"who took the video - he's really smooth", "man that cameraman knows what he's doing doesn't he?", "how did the camera guy keep the helicopter in the picture the whole time", "That's some really good videography who shot that?".

All I hear is "blah blah blah blah blah". How come the camera guy is always the one to get all the glory huh? Did you folks ever stop to think about how hard it is for me to fly so that my helicopter is right smack dab in the middle of his frame of view for the entire flight? Of course not, nobody ever does. Me and Tereq Alsaadi were just discussing this strange phenomenon a few days ago - he too was a bit upset about how his flying gets down played while the camera man gets all the glory. Something's gotta change around here!


Seriously, Dale has spent a little bit of time behind a viewfinder during his life, and I think he's had the opportunity to take more than his fair share of pictures involving fast moving objects. From bike racing to drag racing and now rc helicopters - he's had some practice capturing pictures of non stationary items. He certainly did a wonderful job on this video! His ability to keep the Pantera well centered sure coverd up a lot of ugliness from the pilot.

Sorry if the music was boring, but the flying didn't seem to go well with head banging or heavy metal music I should have searched for some politcal campagning music because my flying sure was crooked!

[benwhite22]

You nailed it! Nothing I could type could explain Panteradise better than that video.

[crash.n.dash05]

music was fine... i liked it...

[The Dude II]

So - it started out as "look what i can do with left-overs & a $14 HK gyro".

Well, the gyro sucked! IT WAS $14!
It had an "endpoint not set as well as it should" - jammed the linkage inflight - piro to an early dirt nap. (Blades, Muffler, Landing gear, boom, Main, Tail, Spindle - boom supports, fuel tank and bearings).

So, GY-520 & BLS 251 - move the gyro & servo upfront, CF Push Rod & CF supports.

Pulled slow digital servo off throttle, added super fast (0.09) analog on throttle - activated throttle mixes (no gov on this bird).

Hung JBs metal Yoke and switched to middle holes on seesaw. Had some serious cyclic rate but also had some serious "over-shooting" of my maneuvers. Starts & Stops were not as crisp, rolls were barrel a bit...but it was FAST Cyclic!

Grabbed the Century Metal Swash off the FBL machine (it too had just turned soy-bean into tossed salad ) and replaced the stock.

MUCH better - but now it was clearly in a "too hot for Gus setup".

Considered backing swash Mix or AFRs down a bit - but recalled I was using the middle hole on the seesaw - swapped back to the outer hole- just aggressive enough - but no-longer "over-controlling"...and with the metal swash - is has about a 5-degree greater range of movement before binding on the main shaft - so if I need more - Swash mix can be "up'd".

Been too busy with Life to fly much lately - but made time tonight and brought the $15 camera wire-tied to the glasses. Worth every drop of nitro!


AND THEN THE VIDEO WAS TOO LONG!!!

F%^&^%&*K!!!

maybe tomorrow!

Now it's less than 10 minutes!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KvqNNvqR0[/ame]

[WessCo]

Is this the setup that you were telling me about? Can't wait to see the video.

[The Dude II]

Wess - yes - the one I mentioned.

Video is up now.

[forvols]

Nice flying! That thing sure looks quick on the cyclics! Dang... wish I could fly backwards

[The Dude II]

That thing sure looks quick on the cyclics!

It is and there's MORE I've left out - this is quick enough for my on-board processor!

[benwhite22]

Looks good, Dude! You've got that thing humming right along. I'm gonna have to get me so better blades; those Rotortechs might be the ticket.

[The Dude II]

The individual who pushed me into the RotorTechs had to "push" for about 6 months till I broke-down and bought them.

I was a vBlades guy and "wouldn't look any further".

RT610 ROCK!

[rotormasher]

I like the way you fix the camera to your head gives us your pilot view... cool

By the way trying to get as good as you!! lol

[forvols]

Hey Gus, you mentioned that use a Century metal swashplate. Is this the one? http://www.centuryheli.com/products/...&currentid=351


Other than the fact that it's metal, is there some magic in the dimensions that makes it better for your flying style than the stock swash? If it's a diameter thing, couldn't you accomplish the same cyclic rate with the stock swash, or do you start putting abnormal stress where the ball screws to the swash as you start adding ball extensions?

I've seen several folks request a metal swash. I don't know what benefit is to be gained by full metal swash vs the stock P50 swash. The metal yoke makes perfect sense to me, but I don't understand what the "need" is for the metal swash.

Can you splain it to me?

[The Dude II]

So we think of the control system as a 1-way path.

• Our Brain tells the finger
• The finger moves the x-mitter stick
• The servos respond on the model
• The rotor disc changes pitch based upon the swash movement
• The heli moves in the exact manor we intended.

This "flight behavior model" is very true when the heli is near the origin of it's flight envelop.
AKA - hovering, gentle forward flight - maybe even some kinda fast forward flight - say 30 -40 MPH in smooth skies. Nothing to fast or quick on the cyclic - no "stabs" at the collective at 2100HS.


BUT...

the rotor disc also pushes back through the linkages...especially when the model is moving quickly or making abrupt changes in direction.

Small deviations in the control system result in the model "drifting" or wandering along the path desired rather than executing the move precisely.


The forces on the balls. (no 'Luke' and get some looser fitting pants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

Take a step back...to examine some of the forces at work here.

The seesaw arm in the stock configuration has the balls on the outer holes.

From the perspective of the swash...this gives ~ a 2:1 ratio; a reduction of movement/throw from the swash to the blade grip.

A 2:1 reduction in throw ALSO means a 2:1 gain in torque/force applied.
Opposite is true when viewed from the blades perspective.

Levers are a cool "simple machine".

Let's use a simple example (we will ignore the flybar system) and say it takes a combined force amongst the 3 ccpm servos of 45-oz of "force" (in the parlance of our servos unit of measure) to hold the swash at a given position.

Lets recall a bit of High School Science/Physics - Netwon's 3rd Law -
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.


This infers that the rotor blade(s) are pushing back with 90-oz of force(remember the ratio of the seesaw arm) - that's ~ 5-1/2 pounds of force - imagine hanging a 5lb bag of sugar off your rotor grip ball link.
Now, "let's" reference that to be equivalent to maybe a 40MPH, banked turn where the model is pulling 2 Gs.
A "powerful" maneuver - but doesn't hold a candle to the forces involved in a tic-toc or a 2-point roll (with full stick deflection) at 60MPH.

Recall, when spec 'n servos for this model - suggested minimums for 3D are in the 70-90oz/inch of torque on the servos. This is the "middle of the road" option.

I'm not up for tooling a swash in the vise tonight and putting a dial-indicator on it...
AND...
the toads have moved-on and only left lots of tadpoles - no arms to help calibrate!
If you really want to see what your swash plate does under load - grab it with your fingers and give it a squeeze - like the servos would in say an aileron roll - but recall the blades above are trying to push back.

It flexes.
Not a lot (suppose that's relative to how tight your back-side is and how good your piloting skills are).

Futaba S9252 are whats in the bird in the video above.

My FAI ship has pretty much the exact same head (the no longer available Audacity Metal Swash - a true beauty) - but flies even better (AKA cleaner, crisper, faster) when I have the 3D paddles (JBs paddles in the aft hole) and RT610 swinging.

Why does it fly better even though the "model" appears to be the same?

Servos and a regulated power system. - So it's an Arizona set to 6.0VDC for the cyclic - but the real CHARMER are the 3 BLS252 servos.
At $150 a servo - they'd better be charming & BMF's!

I flew the model for quite some time with the 9252s but felt there was more. I had a chance to hang some S9155 - an aircraft/heli servo with 192-oz/in of torque - still at a speed of 0.13 @ 6VDC - not the fastest - but PLENTY STRONG!

Unfortunately - or maybe not (depends on what you want to get out of Life and what get's your rocks-off) - these servos (9155) have a metal gear train. Metal is strong, metal has a very little back-lash at first - but the back-lash is best the day you first fly them - otherwise it's a constant down-hill race to slop!

When the 9155 were new - the heli was truly superior to its Brother with the 9252s (by this time - I had started the Heli #1 - first run equipment and #2 - the hand-me-down).

As the 9155s aged, I could feel the precision slipping away (this is over cases and months of flying).
Bit more than a year ago the BLS252 came available - got a pair (I had a neuticle added cause I like to be different - so 3 is a pair to me).

Best $450 upgrade!!!

Same progression was made with the FBL machine - it had the 9252s at a point - wobbly-goblin...that first rev or 2.
When the vBar came along - the 2nd set of BLS252 - rock solid!

For me, the "whole heli game" is all about moving the blades precisely, repeatedly.
There was (and still are) a time when I just flew and punched holes in the sky - I was just happy to have a model together and flying it.

Now I've experienced IMAC style flying for a few seasons with large airplanes. The same "aerobatic & precision" concept of flying is applied to helis in the AMA 1,2 & 3 classes - followed by the FAI-F3C.
RCGeek & I spent a day last week at the AMA headquarters watching several rounds (maybe 20 -30 flights) of Pattern flying.

Sure we watched the EXACT SAME MOVES in EACH FLIGHT - in the same sequence with VERY Simular but yet different "classed" planes.

Boring to some - or maybe you don't know what you're looking at till you watch closer and then figure out what you ARE looking at!

Precise, smooth, constant speed, symmetrical geometry, Vertical Up & down-lines, 2,4 & 8-point rolls that happen with "snap" - well - I'm going into the Pattern rabbit-hole on a heli forum!

Guess the point I'm trying to close with - we take these machines to various levels of performance with the parts we stick in them.
As a general rule, we don't know what we are missing till someone else shows us there IS another plateau.
As long as the price of admission isn't too high - you step-up.
After awhile you look back upon your new found success and realize where you were and now where you're headed.

Keep an open eye and even a more open mind...there's more fun to be had!

(insert your own dirty joke here)

[The Dude II]

to forvols - the Century swash has nearly enough the same dimensions...after a slight adjustment.

When ordering - you do need to get a set of long balls (not BIGGER - it's all in the mind anyway) for the century - as 2 are long -2 are short.
For quicker cyclic you really want all 4 to be long.

The 3 outer balls on the stock century swash are slightly shorter than the Audacity swash - just swap these across - same thread-size.

As far as why you might want to try a metal swash - the plastic flexes!

In the video above - which isn't all that hard of flying relative to some of the stick-banging that goes on when you guys aren't watching me (really - I aspire to 3D Master but can only compete with boring FAI stuff ) - that same flight is not nearly as "precise" and smooth and "easy for me to fly" as I'm constantly making corrections - yes - it's partly in the stock swash.

The hardware path to the next plateau(s) -

good blades. (that's PERIOD - and notice it's the first thing listed - hint-hint)
good servos (built specifically for heli, 100-oz/in on torque .14 or faster)
Heavy Duty servo arms - prefer METAL - yes these too flex in plastic
Servo output stabilizers
Hard dampers (at this time - you should be either running a gov or know "how to" apply throttle curve mixes and likely running 30% nitro)
Metal Yoke
Metal Swash
Regulated voltage system

Now, if you go this far and still want more - try making all your flights look smooth, yet snappy. Wax the blades between flights, drink Red-Bull and only wear clean under-wear on Monday - commando the rest!

I'm off of here - gett'n slap-happy

[dharwood]

My new best girl *** Snowflake ***

[edhall]

Nice bird!

And she's sporting a CPII !

[forvols]

Cleancut, bright, bold. Me likey!!!! Also detecting a bit of a glossy shine on the nose there bud woot!!!

Are you sure that's "Snowflake"? Sure looks like a full grown kitty!

[The Dude II]

SnowFlake my butt...that's a serious Bug-Killer!

Good looking bird!