Do not buy something through paypal as a gift...

[GunnyGlow]

Originally Posted by John Cook

I disagree. I've sold ALOT of stuff on forums and invariably the people buying used or even new things off forums NOT ONLY want cheap prices, they then want to lowball the snot out of you, have you pay shipping, and then paypal fees on top of it. I'm more of the opinion I'll give the buyers a choice. You can send me a m/o, you can send pp gift/money owed, or you can pay the 3% fee. I'm trying to give someone an honest deal on a good product. Why should I pay extra for "your piece of mind". I have great feedback on the sites I trade on. If you need re-assurance, you can pay for it. I've also been ripped off like several other people both by people on forums and ALSO by paypal so I'm not really too high on letting paypal scam extra fees off me or anyone else for that matter. On most things I sell, unless it's a heli kit. I usually pay shipping, so I feel that offsets any pp fees a buyer might incur. In a store, the business marks things up to account for these "hidden" fees like CC fees etc.... On forums, sellers really can't account for that as a great number of buyers are simply cheapskates. I am too, to a degree, but we've got professional cheapskates in this hobby that will try to beat you down down down on anything, just so they can feel warm and fuzzy they are getting the absolute best deal ever. Sorry, but I'm a bit jaded when I sell things, take a beating on whatever I sell, and people come all up in arms b/c there is a fee!!!! Just a typical US citizen mentality. Why should I pay??? You can pay, you can afford to pay for me etc....!!!! I feel the way I do it, the buyer has a choice and nobody is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

How did you get a paypal account without agreeing to the terms they set forth for the service they provide?

[John Cook]

I've had a pp account for many years. In that time they've ammeded their terms MANY times. Also, if you are the paypal police, maybe you want to ammend your sig lol. I don't believe it's a violation of their terms to charge fees to buyers as long as it's not Ebay and in that case you can add the fees as a handling charge. So it's semantics. The point is, if I price something good enough that I don't want to take a further hit, then I'm honest about what I want in an add. I don't hold that against anyone else either if they do or don't. If people are too cheap to consider buying my parts b/c they have some moral high horse or opposition to being fair, then so be it. They can buy their parts somewhere else. I'm not twisting anyone's arm. I don't cheat people and any cases where someone hasn't been happy with something I've refunded their $ on item return. I can see where if you were dealing with someone unknown why you wouldn't want to do pp gift. I've been scammed myself on regular pp and paypal did nothing. Further, paypal has stolen $ out of my account for something I sold a LONG time ago on ebay that was 100% correct and the buyer said their acct got jacked and the part I shipped they didn't order, and never got to them, even though I had tracking info to say that it did. Basically, what happened is the buyer did a chargeback on their CC and PP didn't abide by THEIR policy and just took my $(so they wouldn't lose the $ they got shafted out of by that shady SOB), so wtf am I gonna do about it???? I stopped using pp for a long time as not only did PP take the $ for the cpu I sold, but like $150-200 extra out of my acct, which initially they denied, THEN said it was for some penalty or other charge of some sort, then later again denied. So all you guys can think of me what you want. But you WON'T get me feeling bad about NOT letting Paypal steal more of my $ than they already have!!!!!

[GunnyGlow]

Well, maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before.

But, it's my opinion that the best procedure for handling the 3% for paypal situation is to just figure it into your asking price. For me, as a seller, it's way better to be able to get the funds and then ship the item.....usually within days of striking a deal with a buyer. I get my money and you get your toy sooner rather than later. On large purchases from a reputable seller, I've used a MO to avoid PP fees.
Paypal offers a good service....albeit not perfect. I don't think it's unreasonable to profit from that service.

Would you be willing to pay the fees merchants are charged when you use your CC/DC for whatever it is you're buying in a store, gas station, etc?? I wouldn't.


As far as the payment as a gift. Thats BS in every way AND it's a GREAT tool for scammers.

[John Cook]

we already pay the fee to retailers, it's just built into the cost of products and if you happen to pay cash at store that's just more profit for them.

I've sold things both ways. It really just depends on what kind of mood I'm in when I list something. For instance I listed some parts here earlier today before I read this thread and didn't say anything about pp fees extra. But sometimes after getting beat up by cheapskate buyers for lower and lower selling prices for awhile it pisses me off and I want to make sure things get covered.

I'll give you a typical scenario.
I list say a part that's like new for $70. It's $100 new anywhere online at say the heli e-tailer shops and lets say the "going rate" used is $65-75 fair market used like new price. I'll get pm's that read
$55 shipped and I'll take it. Send me your pp info. If I decline, then I've gotten people who have gotten rather nasty basically trying to beat a seller into submission. They'll claim one just sold for that, or how their cousin Joe can get it new for $60 or w/e excuse they feel like. Or they start trying to up their offer by $1-2. It's just a big PIA.

If I listed the part for 75 or 65 it would still be the same thing. People know what something costs, but MANY buyers just won't buy it unless they get a screaming deal. I can't stand here all high and mighty as I've done similar things when I was on the fence about an item, so it happens. But then they want u to pay for shipping and then the couple bux for pp fees.

When I list something for $70 shipped via pp gift or add the 3% I get WAY fewer low ball offers. Just my experience anyway. I will agree that scammers can and will use the gift option as a way to cheat people. Thieves will continue to find new and clever ways to cheat honest people out of $. Dirty bastards should be taken out and beaten black and blue, but that's for another discussion. But that doesn't make everyone out there a scammer who asks for payment via gift. Or in my case, who gives the buyer an option of how to pay.

[jassenko]

hi, i was reading trough this post and i could not leave without posting my thoughts. i am relatively new here and i do not post often but i am really wondering how eBay can have full paypal protection and this and other sites not?
regards jasenko

[Skiddz]

Um, because this site is *not* Ebay/Paypal? They make their own policies...

[TowPilot]

Another point or two to consider. eBay and PayPal are businesses and are associated with each other.

Forums are separate entities, with no business ties to eBay or PayPal.

Remember, it is up to you to research who you are buying from here. You are buying from an individual. What you two arrange is between you two. You simply met here on HF.

If you decide to meet and pay in cash, that is your arrangement.

PayPal has become a convenient way to send money. Using PayPal as a service is again, up to you. It is your responsibility to read what the conditions are when you enter into doing business with PayPal to pass your money to an individual.

In short, HF is not associated with or tied to PayPal or the people you buy from.

Regards,
Mike

[K2Freak]

hi, i was reading trough this post and i could not leave without posting my thoughts. i am relatively new here and i do not post often but i am really wondering how eBay can have full paypal protection and this and other sites not?

Not sure what you mean. If you pay with PP (and don't pay as a gift) you actually have "buyer protection" (or "screw the seller" I have found on occasion). Unhappy? File a "significantly different" or an "item not received" claim.

[Trickycopter]

I feel it is the sellers responsibility to cover the fees I have sold a few items I no longer needed and I always list it with paypal and shipping included just charge what I feel I need to cover all of this

[GunnyGlow]

Must be b/c you're an Okie. Seems like most people there still have some common sense left.


I grew up in the panhandle/no mans land. If it weren't for the Black Mesa...the rest of the state woulda forgot about us out there in the west.

[twahlert]

OK, I'm new to the club so forgive me in advance. I have a paypal account but it's changed so much over the years I can't figure out how to use it to pay for items here in HF. I've looked for a forum on the subject but haven't found one. If someone can direct me in the right direction or give me a run through on the matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

[rlclemmons]

Pm the seller of the item for their email address. Login to Paypal and choose send money. Just full out the form and you are done.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[TrAuMaChAsER]

Originally Posted by John Cook

we already pay the fee to retailers, it's just built into the cost of products and if you happen to pay cash at store that's just more profit for them.

I've sold things both ways. It really just depends on what kind of mood I'm in when I list something. For instance I listed some parts here earlier today before I read this thread and didn't say anything about pp fees extra. But sometimes after getting beat up by cheapskate buyers for lower and lower selling prices for awhile it pisses me off and I want to make sure things get covered.

I'll give you a typical scenario.
I list say a part that's like new for $70. It's $100 new anywhere online at say the heli e-tailer shops and lets say the "going rate" used is $65-75 fair market used like new price. I'll get pm's that read
$55 shipped and I'll take it. Send me your pp info. If I decline, then I've gotten people who have gotten rather nasty basically trying to beat a seller into submission. They'll claim one just sold for that, or how their cousin Joe can get it new for $60 or w/e excuse they feel like. Or they start trying to up their offer by $1-2. It's just a big PIA.

If I listed the part for 75 or 65 it would still be the same thing. People know what something costs, but MANY buyers just won't buy it unless they get a screaming deal. I can't stand here all high and mighty as I've done similar things when I was on the fence about an item, so it happens. But then they want u to pay for shipping and then the couple bux for pp fees.

When I list something for $70 shipped via pp gift or add the 3% I get WAY fewer low ball offers. Just my experience anyway. I will agree that scammers can and will use the gift option as a way to cheat people. Thieves will continue to find new and clever ways to cheat honest people out of $. Dirty bastards should be taken out and beaten black and blue, but that's for another discussion. But that doesn't make everyone out there a scammer who asks for payment via gift. Or in my case, who gives the buyer an option of how to pay.

Why do you care if people complain about your price and give you a lowball offer? Just don't sell it. You put the price you want and don't take anything else. If someone doesn't like the price why do you feel obligated to change it for them? Lol. You have the worst argument I ever heard.


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[BlazinBones]

Originally Posted by TrAuMaChAsER

Why do you care if people complain about your price and give you a lowball offer? Just don't sell it. You put the price you want and don't take anything else. If someone doesn't like the price why do you feel obligated to change it for them? Lol. You have the worst argument I ever heard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

And you just responded to a statement that was made 3 years ago, seriously? Smh

[John Cook]

Originally Posted by TrAuMaChAsER

Why do you care if people complain about your price and give you a lowball offer? Just don't sell it. You put the price you want and don't take anything else. If someone doesn't like the price why do you feel obligated to change it for them? Lol. You have the worst argument I ever heard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Really? I thought it was well laid out in rationale. Some of us who have been in the hobby more than a month or so have experienced the good, bad, and ugly of buying/selling used here and on other forums. I don't mind using gift if I trust the person or I'll pay the 3% if I feel its a good deal.

Some people however won't sleep at night unless they know they know they've won on every facet of a deal.

Sell a hundred items and get back to us about how to sell pal, you'll be an expert by then and maybe have something valid to contribute other than malice lol.

[TrAuMaChAsER]

Originally Posted by BlazinBones

And you just responded to a statement that was made 3 years ago, seriously? Smh

Just came upon it unread list...sorry I dint know threads had an expire or use by date. I'll make sure not to read threads...a week or two weeks old? I don't know? What threads should I not read and respond to because of their date?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[esmoglo]

Originally Posted by GunnyGlow

WARNING
Just FYI....b/c I see alot of people here asking to be paid via the Paypal "gift" option.

Why would you pay for something and mark it as "Gift"?? Well, most times the seller will ask you to do this. It saves him/her from having to pay the paypal fee.

I speak from experience in reference to selling and why even the seller needs protection. If a seller sells an item whatever that item may be and an unscrupulous buyer opens a case, more often than not with PP the buyer always wins the case. How do I know this as fact? Because it has happened to me.

I sold a Canon 70-200 lens for $900 on a photography forum much like this one. We reached an agreement funds sent thru PP, and I shipped it. Two weeks later the buyer made a false claim saying something was wrong with the lens, got a BS unverifiable letter from someone saying it was not working gave the letter to PP as evidence (they don‘t ever check or do follow-ups on evidence). PP froze my account and reversed the funds. A week later I got the lens back and guess what happed the unscrupulous buyer damaged the lens while in their possession. Damage that was not there it looks like he had left it outside in wet weather yep water damage. See the buyer did not want to be out his $900 bucks for his mistake so it was super easy to file a claim and get back the money and they did. What did I get out of this? A $900 dollar damaged lens and weeks of hassle, frozen PP acct, and a repair bill of $400 from Canon USA.

This has also happened to me with servos sold, sent out a perfect set four weeks later I get a message saying “one is not working now” really four weeks of use and abuse and whatever that person did to the servos and they expect me to warranty it? Then make threats to open a claim against me? Really? Common sense needs to prevail on both ends buyers and sellers need to look at established feedback from members that have a good reputation.

For high priced items like this one that I sold in 2012 https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=387773
A money order was used but the buyer and I spoke in length with each other to establish the terms and conditions.

Now for $3300 if the buyer (did not happen in this case with my TDR sale) was an unscrupulous buyer and plowed the heli into the ground then opens up a PP case against me I am out of $3300 plus the heli. For me as an established seller and buyer I am not wiling to take that kind of risk and that’s why for high priced items I ask that PP be sent as GIFT, then again I am not in a rush a money order works fine too.

Its not simply a one sided approach to selling and buying

[John Cook]

Great point Angelo.

I've had other hobbies where someone claimed they never got item. They knew I would be out of town and unreachable for weeks. When I returned, I had emails from PP asking for information about the "case" and when I didn't reply, they gave the buyer back his $ and let him keep item(claims he never got it, but I know he did). Now, in hindsight I shouldn't have been honest with the "buyer" that I would be out of touch for some time, due to circumstances out of my control. This was many years ago and prior to smartphones and internet everywhere. I was out not ONLY the $500+ for the CPU I sold him, but PP also froze my acct, and confiscated the rest of the $ that was in my PP acct at the time, which was several hundred more $ than what that CPU was sold for. Attempts to get the acct unfrozen were stonewalled and I never did get that $ back. I hate PP and only use it b/c it seems to be the "standard" by which people want to use to transact internet sales. I would much prefer a money order.

[esmoglo]

John,

Yea its become an epidemic with buyers playing the system, PP has no control its only perceived control only.

I agree money order cashiers check all work fine providing they clear the bank that's my only stipulation because of the 1 dollar money order trick. Yep buy money order for one for a dollar and make up your own amount. Yep seen this one many times.

[kuato781]

Just did 2 purchases as "friends and family" - I did after thoroughly researching the users and asking for pictures that *prove* what I was purchasing was real. Why was I willing to do this? ...PayPal now requires a tax ID when selling as "goods and services" and will 1099 you at the end of the year if you sold >= $600 thru your paypal account. ...not a *major* thing for me, as I've always filed a schedule C for various extra curricular activities ...so sure I'll file a schedule C for stuff sold on paypal and will also deduct the cost of the item. ...but I can understand why others may not want to deal with complicating their tax returns

Attached is the email you will get 1st time you sell something as goods and services this year (I just got this yesterday as I sold my first item to a user not willing to buy as friends and family)