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450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 10-20-2011, 03:17 AM   #41
isogloss3d
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Thanks for following up with your results Martin. It's good to see you getting the results you were after.

I know that spec sheets only tell part of the story but even Scorpion's numbers show the 2010 as producing 60 more watts of continuous output power than the 1630.

The new Align 1700kV specs show it producing 60 watts more than even the Scorpion 2010.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #42
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I do not rely too much on the Wattage in the motor spec, you have to take into the equation the % efficiency of the motor at a given watt.

You can produce a lot of Watt with a motor but with poor output real HP, most of the energy is spent in heat.

Another factor is the gear ratio, with a bigger pinion the energy is lower at the main shaft/rotor head.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
I do not rely too much on the Wattage in the motor spec, you have to take into the equation the % efficiency of the motor at a given watt.

You can produce a lot of Watt with a motor but with poor output real HP, most of the energy is spent in heat.

Another factor is the gear ratio, with a bigger pinion the energy is lower at the main shaft/rotor head.
Not quite accurate. Gearing is just a part of the equation. Lower kv motor of the same make, meaning everything in it is the same as with the higher kv version but the number of turn and type of termination, will have higher torque than the higher kv ones. That's why higher kv motor has to be geared at higher ratio, it doesn't have "strong muscle" although it has the "quickness". The opposite is true of the lower kv, strong but sluggish. So we gear it at lower ratio to take advantage of the "muscle power".

It's hard to generalize which one's better. I say whatever suites your taste. Like I chose -1630 (FWIW, its real kv is 1713kv), over -2010 (real kv, 1964kv). I like the grunt of the -1630, than the squealing - 2010.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:19 AM   #44
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This is not gas engine......

Ok, go and buy this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTMF2&P=6

Then, run 3S with your 1700kv motor with that pinion, governed @ 3300.

A little hint if you intend to test it, tight your blade as hard as you can..........
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:24 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
This is not gas engine......

Ok, go and buy this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTMF2&P=6

Then, run 3S with your 1700kv motor with that pinion, governed @ 3300.

A little hint if you intend to test it, tight your blade as hard as you can..........


Do the same on your -2010(1964kv) motor. I'll bet you'll prove your own theory. Don't bother tighten your blades. I have another theory. You won't need it....
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:07 AM   #46
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Playing around with my Trex Pro 450 6s setup.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:14 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades_Cuts View Post
Do the same on your -2010(1964kv) motor. I'll bet you'll prove your own theory. Don't bother tighten your blades. I have another theory. You won't need it....
Already done similar on a friend's 3S 450, he bought scorpion 2580kv by mistake instead of the 3500kv, he had to use 20T pinion, the result is the motor gets very very hot only for hovering, then the rotor disc almost stop when doing pitch pump, followed by a 180 tail kick.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:38 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Already done similar on a friend's 3S 450, he bought scorpion 2580kv by mistake instead of the 3500kv, he had to use 20T pinion, the result is the motor gets very very hot only for hovering, then the rotor disc almost stop when doing pitch pump, followed by a 180 tail kick.

Imagine that. Your -2010 on 3S with the giant pinion you suggested, to get 3200rpm HS. Mmmm, my theory could be right after all. Your heli might not even leave the ground. So, you dont need to tighten you blades too hard.

Makes me wonder why MHS picked -2580 for 3S on their mini-Protos. They should have asked you first.

Alright, let's go back to 6S motor on a 6S setup.....
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:43 PM   #49
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Hello everyone,

NOOB Here.

I Just got done with a few initial test flights on my Trex 450 Pro. I am using a DX6i and the stock GY780 gyro. I can't seem to find a "sweet spot" on the gyro gain. I understand that gain on the TX is not true gain and I am in HH mode. right now it seems happiest between 53-55% but if I move the tail I get an oscillation before it settles down. A rapid climbout creates a slight blowout and a oscillation as well. I started out at 70% on the TX gain and had a severe, continous wag, so I have been backing it down a little at a time.

Any Ideas ???

I have checked for binding and blade grip play, all seems well. The ball is 10mm out on the servo horn. The tail servo is not the stock one, long story. I am using a Savox SH-1250MG, basically the same as the Align servo but a high torque version.

Stock servo specs @ 6V
Torque= 34.7
Speed= .07

My servo specs @ 6V
Torque= 63.9
Speed= .11

Could that slight difference in speed be an issue ??? Servo horn longer, shorter ???

Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Flying !!!

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Old 10-30-2011, 06:41 PM   #50
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You've posted this in the wrong place.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:59 PM   #51
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I am posting this because a couple of people have PMed me this week.

Wiring details for home made 6S pack from 2x3S packs. The diagram is something I Googled. I do not use the extra wiring harness but instead join the two packs together with a pair of bullet connectors. I also leave the 2x3S to 6S balance connector on the charger to save weight. They are colour coded. Get them plugged in wrong and you puff the batts and charger (I've done that once).

Questions, just ask.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:08 PM   #52
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Hi Trex888 - thx for posting the info.
I take it that you do not roll your own lipos from individual cells.
That's what I'm most interested in.
And whether or not 60/40 rosin core solder will work.
And if I really need aluminum flux.

Unfortunately, I'm not finding a lipo cell supplier with good enuff pricing.
So far, HK lipos are still cheaper than rolling your own. Or it's so close
in price as to not make a whole lot of difference.

SO if anyone knows where I can buy individual lipo cells at a cheap
price then I'd love to hear it. I might buy in quantity, with quantity
being defined as 10 cells. Not 100 or 1000.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:30 PM   #53
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Individual LiPos have a metallic tab for soldering. Standard solder from RS should work.

I have soldered A123s using standard solder, but you need a real hot high wattage iron with a wide tip for those.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:52 AM   #54
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I tried to find myself single cell lipo, I've searched all over the web the best I could, but I'm not totally confident it was good lipo when there is no name on it, maybee you can ask branded lipo supplyer if they can sell you.

My last lipo I bought is 1300 outrage NRG, I find a store who sells their 2S for much cheaper than the cost of the 6S per cell, so I grabbed 3 of the 2S for half the price of the 6S, then joined them together.

Nano-tech turnigy are not bad for the price, a little better with a buddy price, you can built a 6S for around 15$ to 20$ from 2S, 3S, 4S of their pack.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:18 AM   #55
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I'm rebuilding my 450 Pro and converting it to FBL for a December project. I am on the fence of converting over to 6s with only one thing holding me back, the damn canopy.

Currently I am running a 4s setup and when I have the 480 stretch kit installed, I can barely fit my 4s 2200 GenAce batteries. I purchased a blue lipo 6s 1300 mah battery just to test it and there is no way I can get it to fit.

What is the easy way to get a battery pack to fit? I can lower the battery tray as I have a ICE 50 under there. I want to switch over for the power, efficiency, and cheap batteries (HK $10x2), just need to figure the canopy out. Does a V2 canopy installed on a V1 pro help?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:13 AM   #56
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I think you have no choice to lower the tray and moving the ESC on the side, it will be better for the ESC also.

Here is how I mount mine, much better for CG.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:50 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
I think you have no choice to lower the tray and moving the ESC on the side, it will be better for the ESC also.

Here is how I mount mine, much better for CG.
Wow that's a major nose job and I was first concerned with the little trimming I did. What size lipos are you running in that photo?

I've only run the Voltz 6S 1300 mAh 35C packs so far and 2 x 3S 1100 mAh Hyperions, both of which are the smaller packs out there. For all I know they may even fit under the stock canopy without any frame mod.

Moving the ICE50 to the side has not been a problem and the CG is near perfect running the Voltz packs at 214g (with deans connector).
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:55 PM   #58
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Perhaps there needs to be a sticky on what packs fit with the stock canopy and:

1. No frame modification
2. Minor frame modification (aka lowering the battery tray)
3. Major modificatoin (my guess is almost any pack?)
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:48 AM   #59
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In that photo it's a nanotech 1300 45C, i also have outrage NRG 1300 35C wich is the same size, and looking at the Voltz dimmension, they appear to be the same size as what I use.

I can fit much bigger lipo in the nose, or even mount 2 of my 6S but this is way too much weight.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:37 AM   #60
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Hi guys..

I have just put together a Pheonixtech TT360 based on the ideas and information bounced around here... The TT360 is basically a spliced together Rave using a 450 pro main frame and Rave 450 tail and main gear. I need help because I'm only getting a flight time of 6 mins just hovering..

My setup:

FBL: Microbeast V3
RJX rotor head
Motor: 2221-1630 Hyperion.
Main Gear tooth count: 177 T
Pinion: 14 T
Cyclics: 5065MG
Tail 9650 Futaba
Speedo: Hobbywing 40A Pentium (2s-6s)
BEC: Dimension engineering Sport..
Receiver: Multiplex 7-DR M-link Light

Batts: 2 x 3S Dualsky 30C 1000mAh

AUW: 940g.

Did I bust up my setup? Do i need to post pics?

*edit: Going to 6S 1300mAh will bring AUW to 980 g!!!

Last edited by MHN777; 12-08-2011 at 07:17 PM..
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