Why Flybarless ?

[steve28]

Ok this whole flybarless thing is cool and all but can sombody explain why I would want to spend all that money to remove the flybar ? The mechanics of the flybar work really well does it not ? Its a tradoff , simplifying the mechanics by increasing the complexity of the electronics . Does it fly differently than a flybar heli ? is it worth it ? whats the point ?

[Mikee]

Less rotational mass... and very quick cyclic response

A couple of guys fly with this setup in our club and it's impressive to see them flying

Worth it ??? maybe to be correct on a scale model yes.. otherwise mechanical is good and less complicated... with less chance of failure

[Pinecone]

Plus cool factor.

[DebianDog]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

Plus cool factor.

Which you can "hardly" put a price on.

[Caleb Phillips]

Originally Posted by DebianDog

Which you can "hardly" put a price on.

Sure you can:
$750 for a V-bar or about $550 for a CSM

Go watch some videos of Daniel Jetschin or Matt Botos and you'll see what Pinecone is talking about.

[Big Fil]

I believe with the flybarless setups you can tailor the response rate from mild to wild right from the radio. Is this correct?

[fogger]

Not exactly; you can tailor the cyclic pitch and roll rate via a laptop or bluetooth on the v-bar setup (bluetooth being an optional accessory)

Essentially the flybarles setup means having a rate mode gyro on all axes of the helis motion. Thus the system will attempt to get the heli to pitch or roll at the rate you set, no matter what the external influences are, up to the limit of the system mechanically, IE dependent on servo strength, pitch availability, rpm, etc.

So for the upside of the setup, you get less rotating mass and aerodynamic drag (therefore more efficiency to the tune of up to 15% from what I've read), tunable roll / pitch rate, faster cyclic response, and a simpler head design. The downsides are the added cost and the setup learning curve.

-Fog

[skydude]

Originally Posted by jonphilli

Sure you can:
$750 for a V-bar or about $550 for a CSM

Go watch some videos of Daniel Jetschin or Matt Botos and you'll see what Pinecone is talking about.

Yeahh. That is why he had the hardly accented.


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[Caleb Phillips]

Originally Posted by skydude

Yeahh. That is why he had the hardly accented.


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Strange, I didn't eve notice that. I guess I need to read a little more carefully.

[DebianDog]

Me watch videos? LOL unless they are very new... I saw them, or filmed them. Remember... I shot Daniel Jetschins flybarless setup this year and last year at IRCHA. It is on the HeliFreak DVD(s)

When I said "hardly put a price on cool." I was trying to be funny. I guess I failed... again.

Originally Posted by jonphilli

Sure you can:
$750 for a V-bar or about $550 for a CSM

Go watch some videos of Daniel Jetschin or Matt Botos and you'll see what Pinecone is talking about.

[Caleb Phillips]

Wow, this got screwed up. I meant the "go watch some videos..." for the original poster, not you Dog (sorry about that). And I was trying to be funny when I said "Sure you can: $700...." but I guess I was the one that really failed.

[MrMel]

Power, alot more power.

Possibility to get any cyclic rate at any headspeed, meaning lower the headspeed and get longer runtimes, keep the cyclic rate just like you want to.

Possibility have several different setups just by flick of a switch, everything from superstable to super-agile.

Biggest drawback its a steep learning curve to setup, and you need a laptop at the field, however, with Vbar's latest software they now have mobile phone support...

[skydude]

Mr. Mel.

You mention steep learning curve. Is that the setup learning curve mentioned earlier? Never mind. I see that is what you mention. Can a setup really be that difficult? Is flying the same?

It would appear to have the complexity/failure???? Not as bad as it looks or would seem???

Maybe you would want to really tone down the crashing???




Dawg. I thought your post was funny! Subtle. The way most humor should be.

Flybarless sure does have the cool factor.

[MrMel]

Yes, its the setup, its kind of "takes some time, once your done your done"

Once its setup good it will fly great,

My friend ran the CSM stuff but didnt like it due to the fact it cant handle piro moves as good because its not a single unit.
(inbetween aileron/elevator need more input then normal, so for a piroflip you had to move the stick in a square, thats ok to relearn if all your helis have same thing, but else its not good. VBar dont have that problem since its a single unit)

Regards to crashing, ive planted my L14 numerous times (dumb thumb it), making basically big holes in the ground, crashes have been cheaper then with flybar, however, otherthings will break more often then it normally would.
I actually had servo gears jump out of the servo...
its because the blade grips are now pretty much a straight line to the swash then to the servo, something gotta give...

I havent had a crash due to the flybarless system as of today, and I had the VBar since it was released.

Ive ran it on Logo 14, Stratus and Ion-X2.

[skydude]

That's really cool. Thank you.

[Bobbyk]

Doesn't the V-bar have a built in tail gyro?

Robert

[th3tick]

Yes, the V-Bar includes the tail gyro...

And yes, the setup is a bit of a pain. But, even me, as a novice, dinked around with it a bit and got a very responsive, yet appropriately stable, setup. For the same 6S I have on my T-Rex 600, I'm adding 2 minutes of flight time, plus insane levels of power. Now, I'll admit I've lost a few cm of tail boom length, and 4cm of rotor, but WOW.

So, while the efficiency is hard to compare, the difference is clear. Flybar-less is the way to go, even if it's the somewhat more expensive way.

[Max_Throws]

Originally Posted by MrMel

My friend ran the CSM stuff but didnt like it due to the fact it cant handle piro moves as good because its not a single unit.
(inbetween aileron/elevator need more input then normal, so for a piroflip you had to move the stick in a square, thats ok to relearn if all your helis have same thing, but else its not good. VBar dont have that problem since its a single unit)

I test flew a Century Swift with the CSM flybarless setup at the weekend for one of the guys in the club. Piro-flips felt normal and I could lock em in without too much problem. I didn't feel like I had to add more stick between aileron/elevator in any piro move with this heli. Anyone else want to share their experiences?

The Swift flew really well and locked in to manoeuvres very nicely indeed. I was actually quite surprised and it felt more locked in all-round than my Sceadu 50. Not an absolute apples with apples comparison but you'd imagine the Sceadu's extra size would give a more stable feel. I'm not sure if this more stable feel was due to the flybarless system or the Swift itself. I liked it though and it certainly made me a lot more interested in flybarless systems.

[skydude]

So let's see. I need to get my eRazor. And THEN get the flybarless (I don't think I will be able to stop myself). Hmmm. I will have to put off retirement until ......when.......the 22nd century?


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[skydude]

I just realized I won't have to buy a separate tail gyro. Retirement....maybe late 21st century.