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| SAB Goblin 630/700/770 SAB Heli Division 630/700/770 - Goblin Helicopters Factory Support |
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12-11-2012, 09:02 PM
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#181 (permalink) | ||||||
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Redding Ca.
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DATED: PROJECT & BUILD "ISSUES" DATA BASE
SETUP DETAILS (updated) Flight Style: Sport, Big Air, Lite 3D Headspeed: 1995 power / 2075 general / 2135 cruising Scorpion Motor 4035-560 (92 % eff.) .................................................. ... $250.00 Scorpion Motor Bearing Lubrication Kit............................................... $5.00 Scorpion ESC 130amp HV 12s with BEC............................................... $250.00 Scorpion Opto Isolation phase cable for V-BAR connection................. $6.00 Scorpion ESC Backup Guard w/Switched 500mah pack  ............. $25.00JR "y" connector for Opto cable to v-bar.............................................. $6.00 Motor pinion "19T" for new ratiof of 10.74:1.......................................... $16.00 FBL System: V-BAR Full size (blue) Ver. 5.2 ......................................... $319.99 Governor: v-bar RX: (2 remotes for DX7) Spektrum DSM2 Remote Receivers................. $70.00 Cyclic Servos: Outrage BL9180 (8.4v)............................................ ........ $380.00 Tail Servo: Outrage BL9188 (8.4v)............................................ ............. $138.00 Futaba replacement arms for Outrage servos # 04021.......................... $17.00 (arms replaced due to tight fit next to servo support frame) Servo Extension Tail servo............................................. ...................... $5.00 Main Blades: 690mm Stock SAB n/a Tail Blades: 115mm Stock SAB n/a Lipos: Turnigy 45C 6S 5000mah (x2).............................................. ....... $250.00 Wire red 10 guage .................................................. ............................. $4.00 Wire black 10 guage............................................. ................................ $4.00 EC5 connectors For Battery Harness (4 set)........................................... $6.00 M2.5x10 Screws (1bag)............................................ .............................. $4.00 (longer screws needed for mounting Torq servos) Shrink tube (green)........................................... .................................... $15.00 Wire mesh tubing (green)........................................... .......................... $12.00 Tri Flow synthetic grease with teflon............................................ ........ $10.00 Food grade silicon spray lubricant......................................... ............... $8.00 Battery straps............................................ ............................................ $10.00 Glue gun............................................... ................................................ $9.00 JB Weld.............................................. .................................................. $8.00 Shoe Goo............................................... ............................................... $6.00 Swashplate leveler (true-blood for trex 700 nitro)................................. $25.00 SAB GOBLIN 700 Flybarless Electric Helicopter Kit............................... $1000.00 MISC. COST FOR EXTRAS AND SHIPPING TAX..................................... $75.00 ___________ TOTAL $2934.00 __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Goblin "build issues" data-base. HEADSPEED CALCULATIONS: (Calculator at readyheli.com) http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html It also includes the update/repair for the wrong gear ratios (listed in the 1.3V manual) showing the pinion drive gear having 19 teeth not the actual 20. Example for a Scorpion 4525-520 motor Result for calculation using 21 tooth (OPTIONAL) motor pulley
"Tips and tricks" video thread in SAB Forum covers the following...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6lAyRuMwfz8 http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsJlqsgOu0&feature=channel&list=UL ALSO - See Mr Mels "V-BAR" video series in Mikado support area of Tech Forum. FRAME ISSUES Manual 1.3 - page 26 recommends de-burring the edges of the carbon frame but this should be done as the "first order of business", not after the heli is almost fully assembled. All the CF frame pieces are extemely sharp and should be dulled - it is an easy job if completed prior to assembly. MOTOR ISSUES The motor shaft should be cut - required length is 28.5mm If not cut, the maximum height of the battery is 50 mm If you cut, then maximum Battery height is increased to 60mm Heli Direct has Quantum motors with the shaft sized for the Goblin Maximum motor height is 68mm. For greater motor height it's necessary to modify the opening in the canopy. KDE 700XF-395 or KDE 495 motor will require cutting a hole in the canopy. SAB GOBLIN USA - (In answer to my question) says..."Quantum 4530 is delta wound and there is no issue using Kontronik Jive ESC with it." Align MX 700 is perfectly compatible Scoprion 4035-560 is listed as a motor suitable for general flight in the Goblin manual p28. but the mounting holes dont line up for all four screws and you will have to mount motor with only two screws! NOTE: (patern is 30mm spacing) Scorpion 4525-520 Ultimate - mounting pattern matches the 4 bolt motor plate Warning! check resistance from shaft to motor leads - should be infinite ohms. If not, the mounting screws could be too long touching motor windings, this could cause an ESC FIRE and failure in flight (This issue is a general warning not specific to the Goblin) MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - GRUB SCREW ASSEMBLY (part HC158) Be sure that the grub screws do not thread past the bottom of motor mount plate when securing with locktite. Otherwise (later on in the build) you will find upon final installation of the motor mount plate onto the aluminum drive tray that the grub screws will not clear the z60 pulley - preventing the motor mount plate from traveling back into the position where it belongs. SIDE NOTE: I used a small application of 5 min. epoxy to the bottom of the motor mount plate and the grub screws to strengthen their installation to keep them from turning when the nylon nuts are tightened down to hold the motor mounting plate in position. ROTOR-HEAD ASSEMBLY Tech note from SAB - "Use the special washer(s), page 23, if you planning to run over 2000 HS (washer is circled on page 15 of manual 1.3) The head is assembled without the H232 part. (only for early kits) If the headspeed is > 2000 rpm then the H232 part MUST be added (pag 33). These shims increase the damper preload therefore increasing head rigidity. Please make sure your main blades are tight on the grips, you should be able to violently jerk the head in both directions and the blades should not fold. Note: The rotorhead assembly is difficult to disassemble due to the strength of the factory applied Locktight. Many have achieved good results by holding the tip of a high wattage soldering iron on the blade grip bolt heads to soften and release the bolts. (Remember to check quality and quantity of grease in rotorhead bearings while disassembled.) Failure to tighten the blades properly and/or run incorrect dampening preload can result in a boom strike. If you remove the shims on the head you won't have any wobble issues at lower headspeeds. ("Wobble" is present around 1900 rpm.") But you will increase the risk of a boom strike without the dampening shims! SAB RECOMMENDATION: KEEP THE HEAD SUPER STIFF - EVEN BY USING EXTRA DAMPENER SHIMS IF NEED BE, (To avoid boom strikes). Low headspeed applications will be better suited for the "nondirect control" head assembly that will be avaliable at a later date.) Nearly everyone with the 700 is running the one thick and 2 thin shims per side, as advised by SAB, KEEP THE BLADES GOOD AND TIGHT IN THE GRIPS All later shipments of Goblins (after 1st batch) already have shims installed - BUT you may have to add additional shims! DFC Head (Direct Flight Control) CONTROL ARMS These items MUST have the "all- thread post" threaded in tightly with locktight. The plastic ball links MUST be threaded onto the "all thread post" untill they are blocked into the aluminum piece. (half of the "A" of the SAB labeling on the ball link will be hidden from sight when assembled into the barrel of the aluminum piece. HEAVY DUTY BLADE GRIP LINKS (SAB ANNOUNCEMENT 11/12) SAB Heli Division has improved parts avaliable free of charge. We making avaliable a new heavy duty blade grip link, made of steel for the 700. (previously part #H0081) to replace the aluminum grip link. (Applies to all kits sold - up to Sept.15 /12) Contact your retailer for details. THRUST BEARINGS Some are reporting that the Thrust bearing is bone dry, others reported bearing installed backwards. Note: You must disassemble factory head to make sure everything is greased and loctite is applied properly. SAB is recommending: Tri-Flow clear synthetic (PTFE, Teflon) grease for thrust bearing/bearings . You should be able to get this at any bicycle shop. MAINSHAFT Vertical play in the mainshaft occuring due to factory hole being larger than retaining bolt that attaches collet to shaft. This was "by design" to allow collet to be position to "take up" any axial/vertical slack in mainshaft, but the problem is that it also allows the collet to work its way down the shaft over time. One solution mentioned... Use align .5mm trex 700 main shaft washer in between collet and bearing, this will permanently fix it so that you need not relying on a friction fit of collet to hold the assembly in place. (I also did this and it worked great!) http://www.helipross.com/align-t-rex-700-main-shaft-spacer-hn7075.html DRIVE PULLEY WARNING (ALL 3 pulleys possibly) SAB Goblin 700 Service Advisory #2 - (20th March 2012) ..."Despite extensive testing, it has come to our attention that one or two main drive pulleys (H0016) have had the pulley flange loosen from the pulley during flight. UPDATE: - SAB Repalacement Parts now avaliable! Defective Tail drive Pulley REPLACEMENT FROM S.A.B. 37 Tooth [H0101-S] 36T (light weight version with larger inside flange) NOTE: Replacement tail drive pulleys H0101-S has an extra tooth from origional. Was 36, now 37, for added tail authority. But replacement tail drive pulley H0016 retains the origional 36 tooth count. NOTE: NEW PULLEYS AVALIABLE 26 AND 27 tooth REINFORCED tail pulleys (pulley located in the very back) Resource for pulleys - avaliable at Heli Direct! http://helidirect.com/sab-new-heavy-duty-tail-pulley-26t-goblin-700-h0102-s-p-26612.hdx CAUTION: Check that locktight is propery applied to all Pully Flange Bolts. Be careful not to over torque the small bolts. Flange bolts have been reported to fail during assembly, during flight and even one or two persons have mentionend that their flange bolts arrived in the kit broken! - ??? (Issue is ongoing as of 7-2012) Post - "Use a screwdriver style "Driver" and 2 fingers to tighten flange bolts, stop when the bolts are snug letting the green locktight do its job. People sometimes apply way to much force when securing small screws." Sidenote: If you are flying at low rpm (less than about 2000/2100 rpm) it is always recommended to use the tail pulley with 26 teeth. PULLEY SHAFT (Z60) Z60 pulley shaft must have a little up & down play in the range of 0.2-0.8 mm, Confirmed by SAB Tech Dept. SECONDARY SHAFT BOLT FAILURE "Advisory notice to all, the "pinion to shaft" bolt on the secondary shaft. (The upper one above the slanted pinion Z20) failed in flight on my Goblin. Drive Shaft Bolts - WARNING! There have been reports of bolt failures of those being used to secure pinions, gears and pulleys. Best Practice: Replace ALL shaft bolts with appropriately sized "shouldered" bolts. SAB announcement - (on their website 4-10-12) ..." We will replace all the bolts and send to distributors in about a week. New kits will have new shouldered bolts. All of our bolts are DIN 12.9, highest quality bolts and screws. Alternative resource for shouldered bolts if your cannot wait for SAB http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?...oducts_id=2385 ONE -WAY BEARING Posted - "Brass surrounding one way seized on intermediate shaft. Took it apart and sanded/cleaned and oiled, all good now. Another post - "One way" was dry as a sun baked bone, needed grease." Best Practice: The One Way Bearing should be greased during build! UPDATE: Upgraded Tripple Bearing 60T Pulley with "One Way" bearing avaliable for Goblin 700 for better auto rotations. (7-10-12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-tripple-bearing-60t-pulley-goblin-630700h0104-s-p-27404.hdx TENSIONING SPRING - (tail drive and main drive) Tail belt tensioning spring is not symmetrical, the length of the bends on the end are different. The short end goes up and the other end goes down, (the shorter side on the support, the longer on the arm.) SAB has updated later manuals. NOTE: The spring may be secured even better with a dab of epoxy in mounting hole. Drive Belt Tensioning Springs - Also could use a tiny dab of epoxy to glue the Drive Belt tensioning springs into the motor mount, - it just makes mounting the motor unit that much easier. DRIVE BELT LIFE? Depends on the type of flight ...average is over 100 flights Belt care - (main and tail)... Food Grade Silicon Spray works well to lubricate belts. Post: We have found that the main belt needs to be re-adjusted after the first few flights and even again after 5-10 more. Otherwise it will become loose and eat the teeth right off of the belt. The motor pulley may have to be repositioned (up or down a few mm). Double check belt alignment by spinning the head and observing the pulley/belt seating. BATTERIES Consider using Velcro to help hold batteries in tray – (back of tray is open) One lockstrap with velcro tape (to buffer sharp frame edges) per battery in place of or in conjunction with O-rings this may help save batteries from suffering cuts from upper edges of frame. (As has been reported by 3-D pilots) Helico-pteron pic Battery Tray can be installed in one of two positions to allow for slightly larger batteries if necessary. (keeping in mind to cut the motor shaft as stated above.) Here is a VERY nice and simple battery tray mod. to consider...
CANOPY TIPS May have to ream out mounting holes to make them line up correctly Use the foam pieces pushed out from the blade holder to make the canopy fit without sliding to one side. Measure and cut two pieces off with the rounded sides glued to the canopy. Duct tape inside of canopy over mounting holes to strengthen canopy from cracking when flexing during removal and mounting Update: SAB canopy grommet now avaliable - ( # HA111) I Had to ream out the canopie holes just a bit. With the new gromets mounted on the canopy they slipped over the face of the mounting studs and push into position with a little finger pressure. One detail - you need to ream the holes in the canopy large enough to allow the gromets to expand just a little bit for when you push them into position over the top portion of the mounting studs. Canopy placement and removal tip Always put the swash all the way down. Grip links facing front and back. Very easy to slide on the canopy that way - otherwise it can be a real fight! Canopy binding issue - CAUTION! If unaddressed the canopy will crack!! When installing the canopy check that the "front bottom" of the canopy is not being "flexed" or deformed as you bring the "back of the canopy" into position to bolt onto the mounting studs. You may find that the landing skids "canopy support area" is binding and causing the canopy to un-naturally flex and deform under undue pressure. If not corrected this will cause the canopy to crack or altogather break during flight stresses. - The solution is to file down the support area of the landing legs only enough to remove the binding pressure off the canopy. The landing legs must continue to securely hold the front of the canopy in place. FLYBAR SENSOR POSITION A FBL sensor does not need to be centred on the heli, it just needs to be square to the mainshaft and centerline of the heli. it is important that leads has some flex in it so as to not transfer any vibrations into the sensor. Reinforce sensor leads with tape or shrink tube where it passes through the frame. SWASH-PLATE QUALITY Swash has a little vertical float to the centern ball. Turns out that “I2 Swashes” are built with the same loose ball and are very good swashes - should not be an issue. TAILBOOM WARNING WARNING! Check clearance between the blade at "0 pitch" and top of boom. Min. distance is 145 mm, if less, - add "TAPE" under nylon bolts. FAILURE to rectify this issue may allow for a boom strike!! Please review the video linked below for specifics on addressing this isssue. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=395680 (Review "Head Assembly" information listed earlier for related issues surrounding boom strikes) "Shoe Goo" the servo lead (servo inside the boom) down and tape lead to servo, (glue gun application are already being reported to not stick long term to the inside of the boom) NYLON BOLT WARNING! Don't over tighten your nylon tail mounting bolts or they will snap! Post - "I snapped one off with the supplied wrench! Just get it snug, the carbon plate on top will hold it in place," Home Depot - sells nylon bolts that fit perfectly in case SAB nylon bolts snap. BOOM SPACER - Failure May want to consider not using CA but rather use epoxy Post - "I epoxied that sucker to the side of the boom. CA is worthless on metal, it will come loose" Overtighen - And you will stress crack boom from the inside out when securing it to the frame. Undertighen - And you will crack the boom where it mounts to the frame - when you tighten it to the frame. BOOM QUALITY Some early booms had issues and quality was very poor. Newer Booms are now "flawless" (Remember to still check boom/blades clearance) BALL LINK ISSUES Blank side of the ball link is pressed onto the ball- SAB stamp faces out. SERVO INSALLATION AND RELATED ISSUES Servos for swash must be installed using spacers provided (For Mikado and Outrage servos use rubber and carbon fiber spacers.) This will require longer screws. (see below)) Longer metal bolts are needed for Outrage Torq servo mounting - Replace the M2.5x8 screws with M2.5x10 screws. Servo extension needed for tail servo as a "safety break away". Glue gun (better yet Shoe Goo) is needed to glue servo cable to inner boom and to secure electrical componant connectors into the" V-bar" recepticles (if using v-bar fbl system) Servo arms with "Torqs servos" need to be replaced with mikado or Futabas - both work perfectly on my Torque 9180s. TAIL SETUP ISSUES Post- "I asked Bert K. (SAB Rep) if I should max out the throw on the tail on the G700, and if there would be any issues doing so, he replied to run it at maximum with no binding. I consider Bert an authority on this particular subject. :-)" Post- "All of us guys on the Canadian team max out the tail blade pitch with the vbar...kyle and Nick helped out with the vbar settings on the tail. Basically they said you are better off to just let the tail stall alittle, as it won't be spending much time at that much pitch. It really improved the tail, so we all max it out now. General consensus is to set servo at center, set servo horn at 90, tension belt properly, set pitch arm at 90 deg. to boom, properly lenghten and attach the pushrod and then complete the electronics setup in your flybarless controller. There is a slight amount of radial play in the tail grips because of the thrust bearings. Tail thrust bearing (factory assembled) -dry as a bone without grease. BEST PRACTICE: Disassemble factory tail to make sure all is greased and that loctite is applied properly. Flanged bearings - Check the flanged bearings (HC414-S) in your tail side plate / fin! They came loose in some machines and made a strange noise. A little bit of CA and everything was ok. TAIL BOX - Make sure tailbox is tightened in place in such a way as to maintane a 90 deg. relatonship of the tail shaft to the center line of the boom. TAIL CONTROL ROD Use epoxy to glue the screw inserts to the tail rod which holds the ball links. Securing with epoxy rather than CA will give a stronger connection. Also, scuff surface of inner rod prior to epoxy application. (Some crashes have been reported due to this issue) Keep in mind that the rod length may seem incorrect (to long) if the drive belt hasn't been tightened to its proper operational tension due to the variable position of the tail shaft assembly. (the entire tail shaft assembly will move back) ...Logo 600 CF tail control rod is longer than stock goblin rod and can be used to make a precision cut and fitted rod, (should be long enough to allow the servo to be turned 180 to allow servo cable to be positioned more accurately away from the tail belt as well) Tailblade grip bolts (SAB announcement 11/2012) SAB Heli Division has "new improved" tail blade grip bolts avaliable. Contact your Goblin retailer or Sab directly for delivery details to receive free upgraded parts. MAIN-GEAR (breaking-in) Manual specs... (for the original alum. Drive Pinion) "A lite lubricant such as WD-40 is recommended for break-in to allow gears to seat properly since there is no lash spacing on the goblin." A more effective lubricant will only prolong the break-in period. (Normally 5- 10 flights) WARNING: concerningn main-gear break-in. From experience: (as stated on the forum) "I did not use WD-40 as recommended by SAB. Instead I used triflow synthetic grease --> big mistake. The grease + black gear powder (from initial wearing) + dirt gummed up and together this combination somehow has worn the gear so quickly that after 10 flights, I already have tons of backlash which is definitely NOT good. Replaced the maingear with a new one and used WD-40 for BREAK-IN --> great success. After a few flights, WD-40 flew away and the gear backlash has been perfect!" Premature Drive Pinion Failure: Main Drive Pinion (Aluminum) Multiple sources are reporting extensive wear appearing on the pinion gear as early as 40 to 50 flights! Various lubrication attempts are seemily not the answer with limited success being reported. SAB SOLUTION... "Steel pinions will be available soon, look for them at distribution locations around 2nd week in July" (Bert K. 6/18/12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-steel-pinion-m25-goblin-700-p-27383.hdx New steel pinion gear SAB NOTE: STEEL PINION GEAR "BREAK-IN" PROCEEDURE "No break-in required with steel pinion, no grease or oil needed either"  (Bert Kammerer 6/19/12) SAB is now recommending the use silicon lubricant or tri-flow grease (every 30 to 40 flights) to minimize heat generation in the steel pinion and to prevent main-gear wear. (SAB 8/15/12) GEAR RATIO ERROR IN MANUAL 1.3 ( REVISION BELOW ) In the manual, the helical pinion (up top) is a 19 tooth gear, but in reality it is 20 tooth Corrected ratios for calculating head speed 16 TOOTH PINION = 12.75 18 TOOTH PINION = 11.33 19 TOOTH PINION = 10.74 20 TOOTH PINION = 10.20 21 TOOTH PINION = 9.71 22 TOOTH PINION = 9.27 23 TOOTH PINION = 8.87 24 TOOTH PINION = 8.50 26 TOOTH PINION = 7.85 SAB ADDRESSES "NOTED CONCERNS" BY CONSOLIDATING MULTIPLE MOD.'S INTO THE CURRENT KIT. The following picture serves as a great "quick reference" for all early kit recipiants who want an overview of every part that they should replace with avaliable upgrades. COMPREHENSIVE "TIPS" VIDEO FOR BUILDING AND MAINTAINING THE GOBLIN FROM S.A.B.
UPDATED GOBLIN MAINTENANCE INSTRUCTIONS FROM S.A.B. (Valuable For downloading or printing out) http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...pter_rev01.pdf ESC INSTALLATION (heli jive 120) NOTE: Sideplate on heli must come off - or stall build untill ESC is mounted if mounting Heli Jive with pre-installed heatsink. Best practice for ESC mounting: Use the Base Plate as a heat sink! Use heat-sink compound or heat-sink tape and heat rated tie-wraps and don't use Jive with pre-installed heat sink, Clean and simple. Thermal tape resource: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/37..._148_0012.html KONTRONIC ESC… · Heli jive 120 + (+ means more output with cooling) · Latest version is 11.0 · KSA mode not used with scorpion motor · Mode 8 updated to work with V-bar external governor · Disconnet red power lead (patch cable between esc and v-bar) if using a separate external BEC Approved to work with V-bar · Home page has a support and news tab – both are useful · Newer programming disk – available if needed · Bail out funct. used with throttle hold set at 40% with full resume for 15 sec. Heli Jive notes regarding Scorp. 4525-520 ultimate stick to mode 4 or 5 21 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds of 2200+ 20 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds 2000-2200. The H-jive works best with throttle between 65 and 70, The H-Jive sweetspot is 65-70 it says so clearly in the manual Decrease pulley to 20 tooth will bring your throttle up to around 58-72. Much less work for all the electronics and better results SAB - say's to run first flights at 1700-1800 for breaking in gears. MIKADO V-Bar · full size 5.2– (blue) – more resistant to vibration than the black one · Requires 2 spectrum satellite receivers · Small emergency battery suggested (5 cell NiCd/NiHM 8v) charges off BEC · Pro software upgrade (after purchase – later on) · Western Robotics "HAS NOW" released a "Buffer Adapter" that will allow their super bec to work with emergency battery pack to power Vbar and servos. Mikado and Kontronics have partnered togather to allow programing VBAR v5.2 and heli jive v11.0 setup to be very straight forward - yea! Wiring diagram (general schemes) Landing Skids Modifications: Rubber trim application: Skid project details at the the following thread. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=400609 Build thread short-cut Thunder fighter did such a great job, I didn't want all his valuable work to get lost in the archives of post dated threads. - Check out his build procedure below... https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=391487 Build Video short-cut Here is the best time lapse build vid. out there - in my opinion.
Wiz 
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12-12-2012, 04:48 PM
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#182 (permalink) |
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Thank you WW.
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William James Crazy wife still trying to kill me.  |
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01-22-2013, 09:23 PM
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#183 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Redding Ca.
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It is time for me to re-post the data base to open it back up for ongoing edits,
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01-22-2013, 09:25 PM
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#184 (permalink) |
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Sorry guys for the ineffecient way to repost the data base with edits and still keep it on the top of the page.
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01-22-2013, 09:28 PM
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#185 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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The way inwhich I view information on the forum is with 10 post per page so this is why I do what I do assuming most people are setup for the same viewing
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01-22-2013, 09:30 PM
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#186 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Redding Ca.
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So five more quick post to set the DB with updates on the top of the page.
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01-22-2013, 09:34 PM
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#187 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Btw, the reason that I repost on top of a new page, in case anyone was wondering, is because the post is so large that if I put it back to back (when reposting to activate the "edit" feature) it is easy to lose your place when searching for a specific topic since this post goes on and on and on!
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01-22-2013, 09:35 PM
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#188 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Redding Ca.
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ttt 8
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01-22-2013, 09:36 PM
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#189 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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ttt 9
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01-22-2013, 09:37 PM
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#190 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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ttt 10
   
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01-22-2013, 09:43 PM
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#191 (permalink) | ||||||
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Goblin 700 Project Details and Build Database
DATED: PROJECT & BUILD "ISSUES" DATA BASE
SETUP DETAILS (updated) Flight Style: Sport, Big Air, Lite 3D Headspeed: 1990 power / 2070 general / 2129 cruising Scorpion Motor HK4530-500LE (115 amps cont.)................................... $400.00 Scorpion Motor Bearing Lubrication Kit............................................... ..... $5.00 Scorpion ESC 130amp HV 12s with BEC............................................... .... $250.00 Scorpion Opto Isolation phase cable for V-BAR connection................ $6.00 Scorpion ESC Backup Guard w/Switched 500mah pack ........... $25.00Motor pinion "21T" for new ratiof of 9.71:1.............................................. $16.00 FBL System: V-BAR Full size (blue) Ver. 5.2............................................. $319.99 Governor: v-bar RX: (2 remotes for DX7) Spektrum DSM2 Remote Receivers............. $70.00 Cyclic Servos: Outrage BL9180 (8.4v)............................................ ........... $380.00 Tail Servo: Outrage BL9188 (8.4v)............................................ .................. $138.00 Futaba replacement arms for Outrage servos # 04021....................... $17.00 (arms replaced due to tight fit next to servo support frame) Servo Extension Tail servo............................................. .............................. $5.00 Main Blades: 690mm Stock SAB n/a Tail Blades: 115mm Stock SAB n/a Lipos: Turnigy 45C 6S 5000mah (x2).............................................. .......... $250.00 Wire red 10 guage .................................................. ...................................... $4.00 Wire black 10 guage............................................. ........................................ $4.00 EC5 connectors For Battery Harness (4 set).......................................... $6.00 M2.5x10 Screws (1bag)............................................ ................................... $4.00 (longer screws needed for mounting Torq servos) Shrink tube (green)........................................... ............................................ $15.00 Wire mesh tubing (green)........................................... ................................ $12.00 Tri Flow synthetic grease with teflon............................................ ........... $10.00 Food grade silicon spray lubricant......................................... .................. $8.00 Battery straps............................................ .................................................. . $10.00 Glue gun............................................... .................................................. ......... $9.00 JB Weld.............................................. .................................................. .......... $8.00 Shoe Goo............................................... .................................................. ....... $6.00 Swashplate leveler for 700 Goblin........................................................... $25.00 SAB GOBLIN 700 Flybarless Electric Helicopter Kit............................ $1000.00 MISC. COST FOR EXTRAS AND SHIPPING TAX..................................... $75.00 ___________ TOTAL $3078.00 __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Goblin "build issues" data-base. HEADSPEED CALCULATIONS: (Calculator at readyheli.com) http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html It also includes the update/repair for the wrong gear ratios (listed in the 1.3V manual) showing the pinion drive gear having 19 teeth not the actual 20. Example for a Scorpion 4525-520 motor Result for calculation using 21 tooth (OPTIONAL) motor pulley
"Tips and tricks" video thread in SAB Forum covers the following...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6lAyRuMwfz8 http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsJlqsgOu0&feature=channel&list=UL ALSO - See Mr Mels "V-BAR" video series in Mikado support area of Tech Forum. FRAME ISSUES Manual 1.3 - page 26 recommends de-burring the edges of the carbon frame but this should be done as the "first order of business", not after the heli is almost fully assembled. All the CF frame pieces are extemely sharp and should be dulled - it is an easy job if completed prior to assembly. MOTOR ISSUES The motor shaft should be cut - required length is 28.5mm If not cut, the maximum height of the battery is 50 mm If you cut, then maximum Battery height is increased to 60mm Heli Direct has Quantum motors with the shaft sized for the Goblin Maximum motor height is 68mm. For greater motor height it's necessary to modify the opening in the canopy. KDE 700XF-395 or KDE 495 motor will require cutting a hole in the canopy. SAB GOBLIN USA - (In answer to my question) says..."Quantum 4530 is delta wound and there is no issue using Kontronik Jive ESC with it." Align MX 700 is perfectly compatible Scoprion 4035-560 is listed as a motor suitable for general flight in the Goblin manual p28. but the mounting holes dont line up for all four screws and you will have to mount motor with only two screws! NOTE: (patern is 30mm spacing) Scorpion 4525-520 Ultimate - mounting pattern matches the 4 bolt motor plate Warning! check resistance from shaft to motor leads - should be infinite ohms. If not, the mounting screws could be too long touching motor windings, this could cause an ESC FIRE and failure in flight (This issue is a general warning not specific to the Goblin) MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - GRUB SCREW ASSEMBLY (part HC158) Be sure that the grub screws do not thread past the bottom of motor mount plate when securing with locktite. Otherwise (later on in the build) you will find upon final installation of the motor mount plate onto the aluminum drive tray that the grub screws will not clear the z60 pulley - preventing the motor mount plate from traveling back into the position where it belongs. SIDE NOTE: I used a small application of 5 min. epoxy to the bottom of the motor mount plate and the grub screws to strengthen their installation to keep them from turning when the nylon nuts are tightened down to hold the motor mounting plate in position. ROTOR-HEAD ASSEMBLY Tech note from SAB - "Use the special washer(s), page 23, if you planning to run over 2000 HS (washer is circled on page 15 of manual 1.3) The head is assembled without the H232 part. (only for early kits) If the headspeed is > 2000 rpm then the H232 part MUST be added (pag 33). These shims increase the damper preload therefore increasing head rigidity. Please make sure your main blades are tight on the grips, you should be able to violently jerk the head in both directions and the blades should not fold. Note: The rotorhead assembly is difficult to disassemble due to the strength of the factory applied Locktight. Many have achieved good results by holding the tip of a high wattage soldering iron on the blade grip bolt heads to soften and release the bolts. (Remember to check quality and quantity of grease in rotorhead bearings while disassembled.) Failure to tighten the blades properly and/or run incorrect dampening preload can result in a boom strike. If you remove the shims on the head you won't have any wobble issues at lower headspeeds. ("Wobble" is present around 1900 rpm.") But you will increase the risk of a boom strike without the dampening shims! SAB RECOMMENDATION: KEEP THE HEAD SUPER STIFF - EVEN BY USING EXTRA DAMPENER SHIMS IF NEED BE, (To avoid boom strikes). Low headspeed applications will be better suited for the "nondirect control" head assembly that will be avaliable at a later date.) Nearly everyone with the 700 is running the one thick and 2 thin shims per side, as advised by SAB, KEEP THE BLADES GOOD AND TIGHT IN THE GRIPS All later shipments of Goblins (after 1st batch) already have shims installed - BUT you may have to add additional shims! DFC Head (Direct Flight Control) CONTROL ARMS These items MUST have the "all- thread post" threaded in tightly with locktight. The plastic ball links MUST be threaded onto the "all thread post" untill they are blocked into the aluminum piece. (half of the "A" of the SAB labeling on the ball link will be hidden from sight when assembled into the barrel of the aluminum piece. HEAVY DUTY BLADE GRIP LINKS (SAB ANNOUNCEMENT 11/12) SAB Heli Division has improved parts avaliable free of charge. We making avaliable a new heavy duty blade grip link, made of steel for the 700. (previously part #H0081) to replace the aluminum grip link. (Applies to all kits sold - up to Sept.15 /12) Contact your retailer for details. THRUST BEARINGS Some are reporting that the Thrust bearing is bone dry, others reported bearing installed backwards. Note: You must disassemble factory head to make sure everything is greased and loctite is applied properly. SAB is recommending: Tri-Flow clear synthetic (PTFE, Teflon) grease for thrust bearing/bearings . You should be able to get this at any bicycle shop. MAINSHAFT Vertical play in the mainshaft occuring due to factory hole being larger than retaining bolt that attaches collet to shaft. This was "by design" to allow collet to be position to "take up" any axial/vertical slack in mainshaft, but the problem is that it also allows the collet to work its way down the shaft over time. One solution mentioned... Use align .5mm trex 700 main shaft washer in between collet and bearing, this will permanently fix it so that you need not relying on a friction fit of collet to hold the assembly in place. (I also did this and it worked great!) http://www.helipross.com/align-t-rex-700-main-shaft-spacer-hn7075.html DRIVE PULLEY WARNING (ALL 3 pulleys possibly) SAB Goblin 700 Service Advisory #2 - (20th March 2012) ..."Despite extensive testing, it has come to our attention that one or two main drive pulleys (H0016) have had the pulley flange loosen from the pulley during flight. UPDATE: - SAB Repalacement Parts now avaliable! Defective Tail drive Pulley REPLACEMENT FROM S.A.B. 37 Tooth [H0101-S] 36T (light weight version with larger inside flange) NOTE: Replacement tail drive pulleys H0101-S has an extra tooth from origional. Was 36, now 37, for added tail authority. But replacement tail drive pulley H0016 retains the origional 36 tooth count. NOTE: NEW PULLEYS AVALIABLE 26 AND 27 tooth REINFORCED tail pulleys (pulley located in the very back) Resource for pulleys - avaliable at Heli Direct! http://helidirect.com/sab-new-heavy-duty-tail-pulley-26t-goblin-700-h0102-s-p-26612.hdx CAUTION: Check that locktight is propery applied to all Pully Flange Bolts. Be careful not to over torque the small bolts. Flange bolts have been reported to fail during assembly, during flight and even one or two persons have mentionend that their flange bolts arrived in the kit broken! - ??? (Issue is ongoing as of 7-2012) Post - "Use a screwdriver style "Driver" and 2 fingers to tighten flange bolts, stop when the bolts are snug letting the green locktight do its job. People sometimes apply way to much force when securing small screws." Sidenote: If you are flying at low rpm (less than about 2000/2100 rpm) it is always recommended to use the tail pulley with 26 teeth. PULLEY SHAFT (Z60) Z60 pulley shaft must have a little up & down play in the range of 0.2-0.8 mm, Confirmed by SAB Tech Dept. SECONDARY SHAFT BOLT FAILURE "Advisory notice to all, the "pinion to shaft" bolt on the secondary shaft. (The upper one above the slanted pinion Z20) failed in flight on my Goblin. Drive Shaft Bolts - WARNING! There have been reports of bolt failures of those being used to secure pinions, gears and pulleys. Best Practice: Replace ALL shaft bolts with appropriately sized "shouldered" bolts. SAB announcement - (on their website 4-10-12) ..." We will replace all the bolts and send to distributors in about a week. New kits will have new shouldered bolts. All of our bolts are DIN 12.9, highest quality bolts and screws. Alternative resource for shouldered bolts if your cannot wait for SAB http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?...oducts_id=2385 ONE -WAY BEARING Posted - "Brass surrounding one way seized on intermediate shaft. Took it apart and sanded/cleaned and oiled, all good now. Another post - "One way" was dry as a sun baked bone, needed grease." Best Practice: The One Way Bearing should be greased during build! UPDATE: Upgraded Tripple Bearing 60T Pulley with "One Way" bearing avaliable for Goblin 700 for better auto rotations. (7-10-12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-tripple-bearing-60t-pulley-goblin-630700h0104-s-p-27404.hdx TENSIONING SPRING - (tail drive and main drive) Tail belt tensioning spring is not symmetrical, the length of the bends on the end are different. The short end goes up and the other end goes down, (the shorter side on the support, the longer on the arm.) SAB has updated later manuals. NOTE: The spring may be secured even better with a dab of epoxy in mounting hole. Drive Belt Tensioning Springs - Also could use a tiny dab of epoxy to glue the Drive Belt tensioning springs into the motor mount, - it just makes mounting the motor unit that much easier. DRIVE BELT LIFE? Depends on the type of flight ...average is over 100 flights Belt care - (main and tail)... Food Grade Silicon Spray works well to lubricate belts. Post: We have found that the main belt needs to be re-adjusted after the first few flights and even again after 5-10 more. Otherwise it will become loose and eat the teeth right off of the belt. The motor pulley may have to be repositioned (up or down a few mm). Double check belt alignment by spinning the head and observing the pulley/belt seating. BATTERIES Consider using Velcro to help hold batteries in tray (back of tray is open) One lockstrap with velcro tape (to buffer sharp frame edges) per battery in place of or in conjunction with O-rings this may help save batteries from suffering cuts from upper edges of frame. (As has been reported by 3-D pilots) Helico-pteron pic Battery Tray can be installed in one of two positions to allow for slightly larger batteries if necessary. (keeping in mind to cut the motor shaft as stated above.) Here is a VERY nice and simple battery tray mod. to consider...
CANOPY TIPS May have to ream out mounting holes to make them line up correctly Use the foam pieces pushed out from the blade holder to make the canopy fit without sliding to one side. Measure and cut two pieces off with the rounded sides glued to the canopy. Duct tape inside of canopy over mounting holes to strengthen canopy from cracking when flexing during removal and mounting Update: SAB canopy grommet now avaliable - ( # HA111) I Had to ream out the canopie holes just a bit. With the new gromets mounted on the canopy they slipped over the face of the mounting studs and push into position with a little finger pressure. One detail - you need to ream the holes in the canopy large enough to allow the gromets to expand just a little bit for when you push them into position over the top portion of the mounting studs. Canopy placement and removal tip Always put the swash all the way down. Grip links facing front and back. Very easy to slide on the canopy that way - otherwise it can be a real fight! Canopy binding issue - CAUTION! If unaddressed the canopy will crack!! When installing the canopy check that the "front bottom" of the canopy is not being "flexed" or deformed as you bring the "back of the canopy" into position to bolt onto the mounting studs. You may find that the landing skids "canopy support area" is binding and causing the canopy to un-naturally flex and deform under undue pressure. If not corrected this will cause the canopy to crack or altogather break during flight stresses. - The solution is to file down the support area of the landing legs only enough to remove the binding pressure off the canopy. The landing legs must continue to securely hold the front of the canopy in place. FLYBAR SENSOR POSITION A FBL sensor does not need to be centred on the heli, it just needs to be square to the mainshaft and centerline of the heli. it is important that leads has some flex in it so as to not transfer any vibrations into the sensor. Reinforce sensor leads with tape or shrink tube where it passes through the frame. SWASH-PLATE QUALITY Swash has a little vertical float to the centern ball. Turns out that I2 Swashes are built with the same loose ball and are very good swashes - should not be an issue. TAILBOOM WARNING WARNING! Check clearance between the blade at "0 pitch" and top of boom. Min. distance is 145 mm, if less, - add "TAPE" under nylon bolts. FAILURE to rectify this issue may allow for a boom strike!! Please review the video linked below for specifics on addressing this isssue. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=395680 (Review "Head Assembly" information listed earlier for related issues surrounding boom strikes) "Shoe Goo" the servo lead (servo inside the boom) down and tape lead to servo, (glue gun application are already being reported to not stick long term to the inside of the boom) NYLON BOLT WARNING! Don't over tighten your nylon tail mounting bolts or they will snap! Post - "I snapped one off with the supplied wrench! Just get it snug, the carbon plate on top will hold it in place," Home Depot - sells nylon bolts that fit perfectly in case SAB nylon bolts snap. BOOM SPACER - Failure May want to consider not using CA but rather use epoxy Post - "I epoxied that sucker to the side of the boom. CA is worthless on metal, it will come loose" Overtighen - And you will stress crack boom from the inside out when securing it to the frame. Undertighen - And you will crack the boom where it mounts to the frame - when you tighten it to the frame. BOOM QUALITY Some early booms had issues and quality was very poor. Newer Booms are now "flawless" (Remember to still check boom/blades clearance) BALL LINK ISSUES Blank side of the ball link is pressed onto the ball- SAB stamp faces out. SERVO INSALLATION AND RELATED ISSUES Servos for swash must be installed using spacers provided (For Mikado and Outrage servos use rubber and carbon fiber spacers.) This will require longer screws. (see below)) Longer metal bolts are needed for Outrage Torq servo mounting - Replace the M2.5x8 screws with M2.5x10 screws. Servo extension needed for tail servo as a "safety break away". Glue gun (better yet Shoe Goo) is needed to glue servo cable to inner boom and to secure electrical componant connectors into the" V-bar" recepticles (if using v-bar fbl system) Servo arms with "Torqs servos" need to be replaced with mikado or Futabas - both work perfectly on my Torque 9180s. TAIL SETUP ISSUES Post- "I asked Bert K. (SAB Rep) if I should max out the throw on the tail on the G700, and if there would be any issues doing so, he replied to run it at maximum with no binding. I consider Bert an authority on this particular subject. :-)" Post- "All of us guys on the Canadian team max out the tail blade pitch with the vbar...kyle and Nick helped out with the vbar settings on the tail. Basically they said you are better off to just let the tail stall alittle, as it won't be spending much time at that much pitch. It really improved the tail, so we all max it out now. General consensus is to set servo at center, set servo horn at 90, tension belt properly, set pitch arm at 90 deg. to boom, properly lenghten and attach the pushrod and then complete the electronics setup in your flybarless controller. There is a slight amount of radial play in the tail grips because of the thrust bearings. Tail thrust bearing (factory assembled) -dry as a bone without grease. BEST PRACTICE: Disassemble factory tail to make sure all is greased and that loctite is applied properly. Flanged bearings - Check the flanged bearings (HC414-S) in your tail side plate / fin! They came loose in some machines and made a strange noise. A little bit of CA and everything was ok. TAIL BOX - Make sure tailbox is tightened in place in such a way as to maintane a 90 deg. relatonship of the tail shaft to the center line of the boom. TAIL CONTROL ROD Use epoxy to glue the screw inserts to the tail rod which holds the ball links. Securing with epoxy rather than CA will give a stronger connection. Also, scuff surface of inner rod prior to epoxy application. (Some crashes have been reported due to this issue) Keep in mind that the rod length may seem incorrect (to long) if the drive belt hasn't been tightened to its proper operational tension due to the variable position of the tail shaft assembly. (the entire tail shaft assembly will move back) ...Logo 600 CF tail control rod is longer than stock goblin rod and can be used to make a precision cut and fitted rod, (should be long enough to allow the servo to be turned 180 to allow servo cable to be positioned more accurately away from the tail belt as well) Tailblade grip bolts (SAB announcement 11/2012) SAB Heli Division has "new improved" tail blade grip bolts avaliable. Contact your Goblin retailer or Sab directly for delivery details to receive free upgraded parts. MAIN-GEAR (breaking-in) Manual specs... (for the original alum. Drive Pinion) "A lite lubricant such as WD-40 is recommended for break-in to allow gears to seat properly since there is no lash spacing on the goblin." A more effective lubricant will only prolong the break-in period. (Normally 5- 10 flights) WARNING: concerningn main-gear break-in. From experience: (as stated on the forum) "I did not use WD-40 as recommended by SAB. Instead I used triflow synthetic grease --> big mistake. The grease + black gear powder (from initial wearing) + dirt gummed up and together this combination somehow has worn the gear so quickly that after 10 flights, I already have tons of backlash which is definitely NOT good. Replaced the maingear with a new one and used WD-40 for BREAK-IN --> great success. After a few flights, WD-40 flew away and the gear backlash has been perfect!" Premature Drive Pinion Failure: Main Drive Pinion (Aluminum) Multiple sources are reporting extensive wear appearing on the pinion gear as early as 40 to 50 flights! Various lubrication attempts are seemily not the answer with limited success being reported. SAB SOLUTION... "Steel pinions will be available soon, look for them at distribution locations around 2nd week in July" (Bert K. 6/18/12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-steel-pinion-m25-goblin-700-p-27383.hdx New steel pinion gear SAB NOTE: STEEL PINION GEAR "BREAK-IN" PROCEEDURE "No break-in required with steel pinion, no grease or oil needed either" (Bert Kammerer 6/19/12) SAB is now recommending the use silicon lubricant or tri-flow grease (every 30 to 40 flights) to minimize heat generation in the steel pinion and to prevent main-gear wear. (SAB 8/15/12) GEAR RATIO ERROR IN MANUAL 1.3 ( REVISION BELOW ) In the manual, the helical pinion (up top) is a 19 tooth gear, but in reality it is 20 tooth Corrected ratios for calculating head speed 16 TOOTH PINION = 12.75 18 TOOTH PINION = 11.33 19 TOOTH PINION = 10.74 20 TOOTH PINION = 10.20 21 TOOTH PINION = 9.71 22 TOOTH PINION = 9.27 23 TOOTH PINION = 8.87 24 TOOTH PINION = 8.50 26 TOOTH PINION = 7.85 SAB ADDRESSES "NOTED CONCERNS" BY CONSOLIDATING MULTIPLE MOD.'S INTO THE CURRENT KIT. The following picture serves as a great "quick reference" for all early kit recipiants who want an overview of every part that they should replace with avaliable upgrades. COMPREHENSIVE "TIPS" VIDEO FOR BUILDING AND MAINTAINING THE GOBLIN FROM S.A.B.
UPDATED GOBLIN MAINTENANCE INSTRUCTIONS FROM S.A.B. (Valuable For downloading or printing out) http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...pter_rev01.pdf ESC INSTALLATION (heli jive 120) NOTE: Sideplate on heli must come off - or stall build untill ESC is mounted if mounting Heli Jive with pre-installed heatsink. Best practice for ESC mounting: Use the Base Plate as a heat sink! Use heat-sink compound or heat-sink tape and heat rated tie-wraps and don't use Jive with pre-installed heat sink, Clean and simple. Thermal tape resource: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/37..._148_0012.html KONTRONIC ESC · Heli jive 120 + (+ means more output with cooling) · Latest version is 11.0 · KSA mode not used with scorpion motor · Mode 8 updated to work with V-bar external governor · Disconnet red power lead (patch cable between esc and v-bar) if using a separate external BEC Approved to work with V-bar · Home page has a support and news tab both are useful · Newer programming disk available if needed · Bail out funct. used with throttle hold set at 40% with full resume for 15 sec. Heli Jive notes regarding Scorp. 4525-520 ultimate stick to mode 4 or 5 21 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds of 2200+ 20 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds 2000-2200. The H-jive works best with throttle between 65 and 70, The H-Jive sweetspot is 65-70 it says so clearly in the manual Decrease pulley to 20 tooth will bring your throttle up to around 58-72. Much less work for all the electronics and better results SAB - say's to run first flights at 1700-1800 for breaking in gears. MIKADO V-Bar · full size 5.2 (blue) more resistant to vibration than the black one · Requires 2 spectrum satellite receivers · Small emergency battery suggested (5 cell NiCd/NiHM 8v) charges off BEC · Pro software upgrade (after purchase later on) · Western Robotics "HAS NOW" released a "Buffer Adapter" that will allow their super bec to work with emergency battery pack to power Vbar and servos. Mikado and Kontronics have partnered togather to allow programing VBAR v5.2 and heli jive v11.0 setup to be very straight forward - yea! Wiring diagram (general schemes) Landing Skids Modifications: Rubber trim application: Skid project details at the the following thread. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=400609 Build thread short-cut Thunder fighter did such a great job, I didn't want all his valuable work to get lost in the archives of post dated threads. - Check out his build procedure below... https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=391487 Build Video short-cut Here is the best time lapse build vid. out there - in my opinion.
Wiz Last edited by windwizard; 01-23-2013 at 03:34 AM.. |
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05-14-2013, 04:26 PM
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#192 (permalink) | |
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Registered Users
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Quote:
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05-14-2013, 08:29 PM
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#193 (permalink) | |
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Registered Users
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Southeastern Massachusetts
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Quote:
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SAB KRAKEN JIVE 120, BK CYCLIC, BK TAIL, PYRO 750-500, THUNDERBOLT, VBAR GOBLIN BT SPORT HELIJIVE 120, BK CYCLIC, BK TAIL, XNOVA 4525 530, SWITCH, VBAR GOBLIN 570 JIVE 120, MKS SERVOS, XNOVA , SWITCH MAINS, KBDD TAILS, VBAR |
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05-14-2013, 08:47 PM
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#194 (permalink) |
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Ah, that makes more sense, but I am still curious which "SAB thread" it refers to.. Could be some other interesting info there I might have missed..
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05-20-2013, 11:16 AM
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#195 (permalink) |
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HF MR Support
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Tail Rotor Hub issue
This is a preassembled part you might want to check before you fly.
The set screw is super tight in the hub, but not fully seated tight against the tail shaft. It will get looser as you fly, which will make a clicky click sound. The easy fix is to chase and finish the threads with a 4mm bottom tap to allow the set screw to seat fully against the shaft. JD  Last edited by clouseau; 05-25-2013 at 09:10 PM.. Reason: 4mm tap not 3 |
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06-26-2013, 01:11 AM
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#196 (permalink) | ||||
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Registered Users
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Redding Ca.
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DATED: PROJECT & BUILD "ISSUES" DATA BASE
SETUP DETAILS (updated) Flight Style: Sport, Big Air, Lite 3D Headspeed: 1990 power / 2070 general / 2129 cruising Scorpion Motor HK4530-500LE (115 amps cont.)................................... $400.00 Scorpion Motor Bearing Lubrication Kit............................................... ..... $5.00 Scorpion ESC 130amp HV 12s with BEC............................................... .... $250.00 Scorpion Opto Isolation phase cable for V-BAR connection................ $6.00 Scorpion ESC Backup Guard w/Switched 500mah pack ........... $25.00Motor pinion "21T" for new ratiof of 9.71:1.............................................. $16.00 FBL System: V-BAR Full size (blue) Ver. 5.2............................................. $319.99 Governor: v-bar RX: (2 remotes for DX7) Spektrum DSM2 Remote Receivers............. $70.00 Cyclic Servos: Outrage BL9180 (8.4v)............................................ ........... $380.00 Tail Servo: Outrage BL9188 (8.4v)............................................ .................. $138.00 Futaba replacement arms for Outrage servos # 04021....................... $17.00 (arms replaced due to tight fit next to servo support frame) Servo Extension Tail servo............................................. .............................. $5.00 Main Blades: 690mm Stock SAB n/a Tail Blades: 115mm Stock SAB n/a Lipos: Turnigy 45C 6S 5000mah (x2).............................................. .......... $250.00 Wire red 10 guage .................................................. ...................................... $4.00 Wire black 10 guage............................................. ........................................ $4.00 EC5 connectors For Battery Harness (4 set).......................................... $6.00 M2.5x10 Screws (1bag)............................................ ................................... $4.00 (longer screws needed for mounting Torq servos) Shrink tube (green)........................................... ............................................ $15.00 Wire mesh tubing (green)........................................... ................................ $12.00 Tri Flow synthetic grease with teflon............................................ ........... $10.00 Food grade silicon spray lubricant......................................... .................. $8.00 Battery straps............................................ .................................................. . $10.00 Glue gun............................................... .................................................. ......... $9.00 JB Weld.............................................. .................................................. .......... $8.00 Shoe Goo............................................... .................................................. ....... $6.00 Swashplate leveler for 700 Goblin........................................................... $25.00 SAB GOBLIN 700 Flybarless Electric Helicopter Kit............................ $1000.00 MISC. COST FOR EXTRAS AND SHIPPING TAX..................................... $75.00 ___________ TOTAL $3078.00 __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Goblin "build issues" data-base. HEADSPEED CALCULATIONS: (Calculator at readyheli.com) http://www.readyheli.com/headspeed-calculator.html It also includes the update/repair for the wrong gear ratios (listed in the 1.3V manual) showing the pinion drive gear having 19 teeth not the actual 20. Example for a Scorpion 4525-520 motor Result for calculation using 21 tooth (OPTIONAL) motor pulley
"Tips and tricks" video thread in SAB Forum covers the following...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6lAyRuMwfz8 http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsJlqsgOu0&feature=channel&list=UL ALSO - See Mr Mels "V-BAR" video series in Mikado support area of Tech Forum. FRAME ISSUES Manual 1.3 - page 26 recommends de-burring the edges of the carbon frame but this should be done as the "first order of business", not after the heli is almost fully assembled. All the CF frame pieces are extemely sharp and should be dulled - it is an easy job if completed prior to assembly. MOTOR ISSUES The motor shaft should be cut - required length is 28.5mm If not cut, the maximum height of the battery is 50 mm If you cut, then maximum Battery height is increased to 60mm Heli Direct has Quantum motors with the shaft sized for the Goblin Maximum motor height is 68mm. For greater motor height it's necessary to modify the opening in the canopy. KDE 700XF-395 or KDE 495 motor will require cutting a hole in the canopy. SAB GOBLIN USA - (In answer to my question) says..."Quantum 4530 is delta wound and there is no issue using Kontronik Jive ESC with it." Align MX 700 is perfectly compatible Scoprion 4035-560 is listed as a motor suitable for general flight in the Goblin manual p28. but the mounting holes dont line up for all four screws and you will have to mount motor with only two screws! NOTE: (patern is 30mm spacing) Scorpion 4525-520 Ultimate - mounting pattern matches the 4 bolt motor plate Warning! check resistance from shaft to motor leads - should be infinite ohms. If not, the mounting screws could be too long touching motor windings, this could cause an ESC FIRE and failure in flight (This issue is a general warning not specific to the Goblin) MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - GRUB SCREW ASSEMBLY (part HC158) Be sure that the grub screws do not thread past the bottom of motor mount plate when securing with locktite. Otherwise (later on in the build) you will find upon final installation of the motor mount plate onto the aluminum drive tray that the grub screws will not clear the z60 pulley - preventing the motor mount plate from traveling back into the position where it belongs. SIDE NOTE: I used a small application of 5 min. epoxy to the bottom of the motor mount plate and the grub screws to strengthen their installation to keep them from turning when the nylon nuts are tightened down to hold the motor mounting plate in position. ROTOR-HEAD ASSEMBLY Tech note from SAB - "Use the special washer(s), page 23, if you planning to run over 2000 HS (washer is circled on page 15 of manual 1.3) The head is assembled without the H232 part. (only for early kits) If the headspeed is > 2000 rpm then the H232 part MUST be added (pag 33). These shims increase the damper preload therefore increasing head rigidity. Please make sure your main blades are tight on the grips, you should be able to violently jerk the head in both directions and the blades should not fold. Note: The rotorhead assembly is difficult to disassemble due to the strength of the factory applied Locktight. Many have achieved good results by holding the tip of a high wattage soldering iron on the blade grip bolt heads to soften and release the bolts. (Remember to check quality and quantity of grease in rotorhead bearings while disassembled.) Failure to tighten the blades properly and/or run incorrect dampening preload can result in a boom strike. If you remove the shims on the head you won't have any wobble issues at lower headspeeds. ("Wobble" is present around 1900 rpm.") But you will increase the risk of a boom strike without the dampening shims! SAB RECOMMENDATION: KEEP THE HEAD SUPER STIFF - EVEN BY USING EXTRA DAMPENER SHIMS IF NEED BE, (To avoid boom strikes). Low headspeed applications will be better suited for the "nondirect control" head assembly that will be avaliable at a later date.) Nearly everyone with the 700 is running the one thick and 2 thin shims per side, as advised by SAB, KEEP THE BLADES GOOD AND TIGHT IN THE GRIPS All later shipments of Goblins (after 1st batch) already have shims installed - BUT you may have to add additional shims! DFC Head (Direct Flight Control) CONTROL ARMS These items MUST have the "all- thread post" threaded in tightly with locktight. The plastic ball links MUST be threaded onto the "all thread post" untill they are blocked into the aluminum piece. (half of the "A" of the SAB labeling on the ball link will be hidden from sight when assembled into the barrel of the aluminum piece. HEAVY DUTY BLADE GRIP LINKS (SAB ANNOUNCEMENT 11/12) SAB Heli Division has improved parts avaliable free of charge. We making avaliable a new heavy duty blade grip link, made of steel for the 700. (previously part #H0081) to replace the aluminum grip link. (Applies to all kits sold - up to Sept.15 /12) Contact your retailer for details. THRUST BEARINGS Some are reporting that the Thrust bearing is bone dry, others reported bearing installed backwards. Note: You must disassemble factory head to make sure everything is greased and loctite is applied properly. SAB is recommending: Tri-Flow clear synthetic (PTFE, Teflon) grease for thrust bearing/bearings . You should be able to get this at any bicycle shop. MAINSHAFT Vertical play in the mainshaft occuring due to factory hole being larger than retaining bolt that attaches collet to shaft. This was "by design" to allow collet to be position to "take up" any axial/vertical slack in mainshaft, but the problem is that it also allows the collet to work its way down the shaft over time. One solution mentioned... Use align .5mm trex 700 main shaft washer in between collet and bearing, this will permanently fix it so that you need not relying on a friction fit of collet to hold the assembly in place. (I also did this and it worked great!) http://www.helipross.com/align-t-rex-700-main-shaft-spacer-hn7075.html DRIVE PULLEY WARNING (ALL 3 pulleys possibly) SAB Goblin 700 Service Advisory #2 - (20th March 2012) ..."Despite extensive testing, it has come to our attention that one or two main drive pulleys (H0016) have had the pulley flange loosen from the pulley during flight. UPDATE: - SAB Repalacement Parts now avaliable! Defective Tail drive Pulley REPLACEMENT FROM S.A.B. 37 Tooth [H0101-S] 36T (light weight version with larger inside flange) NOTE: Replacement tail drive pulleys H0101-S has an extra tooth from origional. Was 36, now 37, for added tail authority. But replacement tail drive pulley H0016 retains the origional 36 tooth count. NOTE: NEW PULLEYS AVALIABLE 26 AND 27 tooth REINFORCED tail pulleys (pulley located in the very back) Resource for pulleys - avaliable at Heli Direct! http://helidirect.com/sab-new-heavy-duty-tail-pulley-26t-goblin-700-h0102-s-p-26612.hdx CAUTION: Check that locktight is propery applied to all Pully Flange Bolts. Be careful not to over torque the small bolts. Flange bolts have been reported to fail during assembly, during flight and even one or two persons have mentionend that their flange bolts arrived in the kit broken! - ??? (Issue is ongoing as of 7-2012) Post - "Use a screwdriver style "Driver" and 2 fingers to tighten flange bolts, stop when the bolts are snug letting the green locktight do its job. People sometimes apply way to much force when securing small screws." Sidenote: If you are flying at low rpm (less than about 2000/2100 rpm) it is always recommended to use the tail pulley with 26 teeth. PULLEY SHAFT (Z60) Z60 pulley shaft must have a little up & down play in the range of 0.2-0.8 mm, Confirmed by SAB Tech Dept. SECONDARY SHAFT BOLT FAILURE "Advisory notice to all, the "pinion to shaft" bolt on the secondary shaft. (The upper one above the slanted pinion Z20) failed in flight on my Goblin. Drive Shaft Bolts - WARNING! There have been reports of bolt failures of those being used to secure pinions, gears and pulleys. Best Practice: Replace ALL shaft bolts with appropriately sized "shouldered" bolts. SAB announcement - (on their website 4-10-12) ..." We will replace all the bolts and send to distributors in about a week. New kits will have new shouldered bolts. All of our bolts are DIN 12.9, highest quality bolts and screws. Alternative resource for shouldered bolts if your cannot wait for SAB http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?...oducts_id=2385 ONE -WAY BEARING Posted - "Brass surrounding one way seized on intermediate shaft. Took it apart and sanded/cleaned and oiled, all good now. Another post - "One way" was dry as a sun baked bone, needed grease." Best Practice: The One Way Bearing should be greased during build! UPDATE: Upgraded Tripple Bearing 60T Pulley with "One Way" bearing avaliable for Goblin 700 for better auto rotations. (7-10-12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-tripple-bearing-60t-pulley-goblin-630700h0104-s-p-27404.hdx TENSIONING SPRING - (tail drive and main drive) Tail belt tensioning spring is not symmetrical, the length of the bends on the end are different. The short end goes up and the other end goes down, (the shorter side on the support, the longer on the arm.) SAB has updated later manuals. NOTE: The spring may be secured even better with a dab of epoxy in mounting hole. Drive Belt Tensioning Springs - Also could use a tiny dab of epoxy to glue the Drive Belt tensioning springs into the motor mount, - it just makes mounting the motor unit that much easier. DRIVE BELT LIFE? Depends on the type of flight ...average is over 100 flights Belt care - (main and tail)... Food Grade Silicon Spray works well to lubricate belts. Post: We have found that the main belt needs to be re-adjusted after the first few flights and even again after 5-10 more. Otherwise it will become loose and eat the teeth right off of the belt. The motor pulley may have to be repositioned (up or down a few mm). Double check belt alignment by spinning the head and observing the pulley/belt seating. BATTERIES Consider using Velcro to help hold batteries in tray (back of tray is open) One lockstrap with velcro tape (to buffer sharp frame edges) per battery in place of or in conjunction with O-rings this may help save batteries from suffering cuts from upper edges of frame. (As has been reported by 3-D pilots) Helico-pteron pic Battery Tray can be installed in one of two positions to allow for slightly larger batteries if necessary. (keeping in mind to cut the motor shaft as stated above.) Here is a VERY nice and simple battery tray mod. to consider... CANOPY TIPS May have to ream out mounting holes to make them line up correctly Use the foam pieces pushed out from the blade holder to make the canopy fit without sliding to one side. Measure and cut two pieces off with the rounded sides glued to the canopy. Duct tape inside of canopy over mounting holes to strengthen canopy from cracking when flexing during removal and mounting Update: SAB canopy grommet now avaliable - ( # HA111) I Had to ream out the canopie holes just a bit. With the new gromets mounted on the canopy they slipped over the face of the mounting studs and push into position with a little finger pressure. One detail - you need to ream the holes in the canopy large enough to allow the gromets to expand just a little bit for when you push them into position over the top portion of the mounting studs. Canopy placement and removal tip Always put the swash all the way down. Grip links facing front and back. Very easy to slide on the canopy that way - otherwise it can be a real fight! Canopy binding issue - CAUTION! If unaddressed the canopy will crack!! When installing the canopy check that the "front bottom" of the canopy is not being "flexed" or deformed as you bring the "back of the canopy" into position to bolt onto the mounting studs. You may find that the landing skids "canopy support area" is binding and causing the canopy to un-naturally flex and deform under undue pressure. If not corrected this will cause the canopy to crack or altogather break during flight stresses. - The solution is to file down the support area of the landing legs only enough to remove the binding pressure off the canopy. The landing legs must continue to securely hold the front of the canopy in place. FLYBAR SENSOR POSITION A FBL sensor does not need to be centred on the heli, it just needs to be square to the mainshaft and centerline of the heli. it is important that leads has some flex in it so as to not transfer any vibrations into the sensor. Reinforce sensor leads with tape or shrink tube where it passes through the frame. SWASH-PLATE QUALITY Swash has a little vertical float to the centern ball. Turns out that I2 Swashes are built with the same loose ball and are very good swashes - should not be an issue. TAILBOOM WARNING WARNING! Check clearance between the blade at "0 pitch" and top of boom. Min. distance is 145 mm, if less, - add "TAPE" under nylon bolts. FAILURE to rectify this issue may allow for a boom strike!! Please review the video linked below for specifics on addressing this isssue. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=395680 (Review "Head Assembly" information listed earlier for related issues surrounding boom strikes) "Shoe Goo" the servo lead (servo inside the boom) down and tape lead to servo, (glue gun application are already being reported to not stick long term to the inside of the boom) NYLON BOLT WARNING! Don't over tighten your nylon tail mounting bolts or they will snap! Post - "I snapped one off with the supplied wrench! Just get it snug, the carbon plate on top will hold it in place," Home Depot - sells nylon bolts that fit perfectly in case SAB nylon bolts snap. BOOM SPACER - Failure May want to consider not using CA but rather use epoxy Post - "I epoxied that sucker to the side of the boom. CA is worthless on metal, it will come loose" Overtighen - And you will stress crack boom from the inside out when securing it to the frame. Undertighen - And you will crack the boom where it mounts to the frame - when you tighten it to the frame. BOOM QUALITY Some early booms had issues and quality was very poor. Newer Booms are now "flawless" (Remember to still check boom/blades clearance) BALL LINK ISSUES Blank side of the ball link is pressed onto the ball- SAB stamp faces out. SERVO INSALLATION AND RELATED ISSUES Servos for swash must be installed using spacers provided (For Mikado and Outrage servos use rubber and carbon fiber spacers.) This will require longer screws. (see below)) Longer metal bolts are needed for Outrage Torq servo mounting - Replace the M2.5x8 screws with M2.5x10 screws. Servo extension needed for tail servo as a "safety break away". Glue gun (better yet Shoe Goo) is needed to glue servo cable to inner boom and to secure electrical componant connectors into the" V-bar" recepticles (if using v-bar fbl system) Servo arms with "Torqs servos" need to be replaced with mikado or Futabas - both work perfectly on my Torque 9180s. TAIL SETUP ISSUES Post- "I asked Bert K. (SAB Rep) if I should max out the throw on the tail on the G700, and if there would be any issues doing so, he replied to run it at maximum with no binding. I consider Bert an authority on this particular subject. :-)" Post- "All of us guys on the Canadian team max out the tail blade pitch with the vbar...kyle and Nick helped out with the vbar settings on the tail. Basically they said you are better off to just let the tail stall alittle, as it won't be spending much time at that much pitch. It really improved the tail, so we all max it out now. General consensus is to set servo at center, set servo horn at 90, tension belt properly, set pitch arm at 90 deg. to boom, properly lenghten and attach the pushrod and then complete the electronics setup in your flybarless controller. There is a slight amount of radial play in the tail grips because of the thrust bearings. Tail thrust bearing (factory assembled) -dry as a bone without grease. BEST PRACTICE: Disassemble factory tail to make sure all is greased and that loctite is applied properly. Flanged bearings - Check the flanged bearings (HC414-S) in your tail side plate / fin! They came loose in some machines and made a strange noise. A little bit of CA and everything was ok. TAIL BOX - Make sure tailbox is tightened in place in such a way as to maintane a 90 deg. relatonship of the tail shaft to the center line of the boom. TAIL CONTROL ROD Use epoxy to glue the screw inserts to the tail rod which holds the ball links. Securing with epoxy rather than CA will give a stronger connection. Also, scuff surface of inner rod prior to epoxy application. (Some crashes have been reported due to this issue) Keep in mind that the rod length may seem incorrect (to long) if the drive belt hasn't been tightened to its proper operational tension due to the variable position of the tail shaft assembly. (the entire tail shaft assembly will move back) ...Logo 600 CF tail control rod is longer than stock goblin rod and can be used to make a precision cut and fitted rod, (should be long enough to allow the servo to be turned 180 to allow servo cable to be positioned more accurately away from the tail belt as well) Tailblade grip bolts (SAB announcement 11/2012) SAB Heli Division has "new improved" tail blade grip bolts avaliable. Contact your Goblin retailer or Sab directly for delivery details to receive free upgraded parts. MAIN-GEAR (breaking-in) Manual specs... (for the original alum. Drive Pinion) "A lite lubricant such as WD-40 is recommended for break-in to allow gears to seat properly since there is no lash spacing on the goblin." A more effective lubricant will only prolong the break-in period. (Normally 5- 10 flights) WARNING: concerningn main-gear break-in. From experience: (as stated on the forum) "I did not use WD-40 as recommended by SAB. Instead I used triflow synthetic grease --> big mistake. The grease + black gear powder (from initial wearing) + dirt gummed up and together this combination somehow has worn the gear so quickly that after 10 flights, I already have tons of backlash which is definitely NOT good. Replaced the maingear with a new one and used WD-40 for BREAK-IN --> great success. After a few flights, WD-40 flew away and the gear backlash has been perfect!" [FONT=Tahoma]Premature Drive Pinion Failure: Main Drive Pinion (Aluminum) Multiple sources are reporting extensive wear appearing on the pinion gear as early as 40 to 50 flights! Various lubrication attempts are seemily not the answer with limited success being reported. SAB SOLUTION... "Steel pinions will be available soon, look for them at distribution locations around 2nd week in July" (Bert K. 6/18/12) http://helidirect.com/sab-new-upgrade-steel-pinion-m25-goblin-700-p-27383.hdx New steel pinion gear SAB NOTE: STEEL PINION GEAR "BREAK-IN" PROCEEDURE "No break-in required with steel pinion, no grease or oil needed either" (Bert Kammerer 6/19/12) SAB is now recommending the use silicon lubricant or tri-flow grease (every 30 to 40 flights) to minimize heat generation in the steel pinion and to prevent main-gear wear. (SAB 8/15/12) GEAR RATIO ERROR IN MANUAL 1.3 ( REVISION BELOW ) In the manual, the helical pinion (up top) is a 19 tooth gear, but in reality it is 20 tooth Corrected ratios for calculating head speed 16 TOOTH PINION = 12.75 18 TOOTH PINION = 11.33 19 TOOTH PINION = 10.74 20 TOOTH PINION = 10.20 21 TOOTH PINION = 9.71 22 TOOTH PINION = 9.27 23 TOOTH PINION = 8.87 24 TOOTH PINION = 8.50 26 TOOTH PINION = 7.85 SAB ADDRESSES "NOTED CONCERNS" BY CONSOLIDATING MULTIPLE MOD.'S INTO THE CURRENT KIT. The following picture serves as a great "quick reference" for all early kit recipiants who want an overview of every part that they should replace with avaliable upgrades. COMPREHENSIVE "TIPS" VIDEO FOR BUILDING AND MAINTAINING THE GOBLIN FROM S.A.B.
UPDATED GOBLIN MAINTENANCE INSTRUCTIONS FROM S.A.B. (Valuable For downloading or printing out) http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/sho...pter_rev01.pdf ESC INSTALLATION (heli jive 120) NOTE: Sideplate on heli must come off - or stall build untill ESC is mounted if mounting Heli Jive with pre-installed heatsink. Best practice for ESC mounting: Use the Base Plate as a heat sink! Use heat-sink compound or heat-sink tape and heat rated tie-wraps and don't use Jive with pre-installed heat sink, Clean and simple. Thermal tape resource: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/37..._148_0012.html KONTRONIC ESC · Heli jive 120 + (+ means more output with cooling) · Latest version is 11.0 · KSA mode not used with scorpion motor · Mode 8 updated to work with V-bar external governor · Disconnet red power lead (patch cable between esc and v-bar) if using a separate external BEC Approved to work with V-bar · Home page has a support and news tab both are useful · Newer programming disk available if needed · Bail out funct. used with throttle hold set at 40% with full resume for 15 sec. Heli Jive notes regarding Scorp. 4525-520 ultimate stick to mode 4 or 5 21 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds of 2200+ 20 tooth pulley if you want headspeeds 2000-2200. The H-jive works best with throttle between 65 and 70, The H-Jive sweetspot is 65-70 it says so clearly in the manual Decrease pulley to 20 tooth will bring your throttle up to around 58-72. Much less work for all the electronics and better results SAB - say's to run first flights at 1700-1800 for breaking in gears. MIKADO V-Bar · full size 5.2 (blue) more resistant to vibration than the black one · Requires 2 spectrum satellite receivers · Small emergency battery suggested (5 cell NiCd/NiHM 8v) charges off BEC · Pro software upgrade (after purchase later on) · Western Robotics "HAS NOW" released a "Buffer Adapter" that will allow their super bec to work with emergency battery pack to power Vbar and servos. Mikado and Kontronics have partnered togather to allow programing VBAR v5.2 and heli jive v11.0 setup to be very straight forward - yea! Wiring diagram (general schemes) Landing Skids Modifications: Rubber trim application: Skid project details at the the following thread. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=400609 Build thread short-cut Thunder fighter did such a great job, I didn't want all his valuable work to get lost in the archives of post dated threads. - Check out his build procedure below... https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=391487 Build Video short-cut Here is the best time lapse build vid. out there - in my opinion.
Wiz
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06-26-2013, 04:22 AM
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#197 (permalink) |
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Registered Users
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but how do you tell what the updates are in this thread?
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Trex family.....100, 450L, 550E 3GX. Goblin 770.Goblin 700 speed machine. Goblin 380. JR X9503. |
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03-29-2014, 04:07 AM
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#198 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I wish this sticky was the ONE exception for windwizard to be allowed to modify his FIRST post so he doesn't have to keep making updated page after page after page...
I mean, you mods DID sticky this for him...could maybe let him do a bit of 'modding' to his own sticky... Or not...just a smart thought IMO. We are now what, 10 pages deep? Couldve been just a couple of non-confusing pages w/ one 'build issues' post in the beginning. This is the ONLY rc forum that has a time limit w/ post modification...not cool ESPECIALLY for a sticky  |
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07-15-2014, 10:04 AM
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#199 (permalink) |
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Registered Users
Join Date: Mar 2014
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I think I am annoying people with my "stupid newb question threads but I have another stupid newb question.
Do you really cram those mainblade shims into the grips with the stock blades? If so HOW? The blades fit in a little snug with no shim and that is some pretty thick aluminum to be trying to spread apart. But it DOES seem like something should be in there. |
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