4010 and PSU questions...

[The claw NZ]

I have just ordered a 4010 to replace my 306B (although I will keep it as a backup). I'm struggling a bit with the PSU requirements for the 4010 though

I have 2 24V PSU's, rated at 1,400W, 40A constant, 80A peak (i need to confirm these details, just going off the top of my head, but they will be close). I also have a 1KVA generator for field charging.

So keeping all this in mind, what would be the best approach for a setup that I can use at home (240V here in NZ) for both the 4010 and 306B if need be, and also portable for field charging???

I had thought about putting one PSU in a case with the 4010 (for taking to the field) and leaving the other setup at home for the 306B, but then will this be restricting the 4010 when it can take up to 50V input (i.e Running the 2 24V PSU's in series)? If it does, at what point does the restriction become apparent? I charge only 6S lipos at this stage, ranging from 1350 to 4500 mah. Would my generator be restricting the 24V PSU? How about as a 48V unit?

Thanks in advance for any insight

[Slyster]

I use 3 deep cycles (36v) for al my field charging... and get full output. Works really nice. I love the charger.

[The claw NZ]

The PSU's I have are Cosel ADA 1000f-24's. 1000w, 40A constant, 83A peak

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[RedOctobyr]

None of the current options (PSU or generator) will let you get the full output from the 4010, so you could say that they will limit you. You probably knew that.

The real question is probably what charge current do you want to use? If you want 6S 15A output, you're perfectly fine.

For 6S, max voltage is 25.2V. Say you wanted a 6S 30A output. 25.2V*30A=756W.

Your 1000W PSU could do that. Do consider that there are some inefficiencies. I've heard that coming from the wall, to the charger's output, overall might be around 80% efficient. Assuming that's right, your 756W output would need about 945W from the wall (this number would relate to the generator).

I don't know if your 1KVA generator is a Honda/Yamaha 1000W inverter. If so, those are rated for 800VA continuous, I think, and 1000VA peak. So "budget" based on 800VA, if those are what you have.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

The real question is probably what charge current do you want to use?

+1 No need to fully power both chargers if you don't need it. If you do need more power, you'd want to replace your generator and add a few more power supplies. Also if you are charging 6s packs, I would use a 36v or 48v power supply to avoid the buck/boost transitions that occur when the supply output is close in voltage to the charger output.

[The claw NZ]

Thanks guys, would like to charge at 2C minimum, 3C would be nice. Most of my lipo's are Pulse Ultra's so would stand 5C. I have 3 1350's, 6 3300's, 4 4400's & 2 4500's. Will be getting more of the 4500-5000 size to make up 12S stick packs for my Diabolo.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[RedOctobyr]

How many amps do you want at a time?

What you listed is a total of 50.5Ah (50450mAh) of packs.

Even 1C, for doing all those at once, is 50A, and 1260W.

That would crush your generator, and would also exceed what a single power supply can manage (I don't know if you can make use of both).

So without knowing the total amps you really want at one time, the question can't properly be answered. But "even" the (4) 4400's is quite a load, 2C is already 35A, 880W.

The 1000VA generator will definitely limit you. A 2000VA would be a lot better, and still couldn't manage 2000W to the charger. The Honda/Yamaha 2000 inverters are 1600VA continuous, not 2000. Plus there are some efficiency losses in the power supply & charger, so you won't get 1600 into the charger/packs. There are Yamaha 2400 & 2800 inverters that might be worth a look, if you really wanted full power, using an inverter generator (expensive, but quiet, and efficient).

The power supplies, if you can run them both together, preferably in series for 48V, should not limit you.

[Kiba]

Being you're in New Zealand with 240V power puts you at an advantage to those of us in the US. Pick up a single HP ESP120 power supply, they're 220/240V input, 48V @ 57A output for 2700 watts. They're cheap from ebay and perfect for a 4010-- plenty of power and no need to wire up multiple power supplies in series.

That's way more power than your current 1000W generator can provide but you'll be able to charge very quickly at home off your home outlets.

When running off the generator you can set the 4010 to limit the input current so you don't overload the generator and cause it to shut down. I'd start thinking about a 2000W (or larger) generator if you plan on charging all those packs, a 1000 watt generator feeding a 4010 is going to be a bit of a disappointment IMO. With my Yamaha 2000is (1600VA continuous) I can charge 6S packs on each channel of my 4010 simultaneously at about 26A; that's the output limit of the generator as with both channels charging 6S packs @ ~26A the charger and power supplies are pulling 1580VA (controlled by adjusting the input current limit of the 4010.)

With the 4010 and EF2000is at the field I can charge a 12S5000 flight pack at 3C on each port (30A max, throttled to about 26A depending on pack voltage to keep the power draw at 1580VA) and turn them over every 14-15 minutes. Including time to remove/install packs in the heli and put the just-flown pack on the charger they're nearly back to back flights with only a few minutes of down time.

[The claw NZ]

Great information Kiba! (and RedOctobyr and Greg) Exactly what I was looking for! Luckily the Generator I have was free to me (belongs in my parents house bus) so I will look for something with 2kva (at least) output. I'll start looking for a 48V PSU as well. Will off load one of the 24V ones I have and setup the 48V one in a case with the 4010 and leave the 306B and other 24V PSU setup at home. Thanks again!

[RedOctobyr]

Wow, that PSU is awesome I found one on eBay for $40, for 2950W, 48V. That is impressive. Too bad you need 200-240V to use it, kinda leaves the US out

It lists a 51.4V output. The 4010 Duo specs show 50V max input. Is that a problem? Can the PSU output be adjusted down, to avoid potentially damaging the charger?

[The claw NZ]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

Wow, that PSU is awesome I found one on eBay for $40, for 2950W, 48V. That is impressive. Too bad you need 200-240V to use it, kinda leaves the US out

It lists a 51.4V output. The 4010 Duo specs show 50V max input. Is that a problem? Can the PSU output be adjusted down, to avoid potentially damaging the charger?

I have done a little reading, looks as though it is possible to restrict output, but it isn't simply a case of turning a dial unfortunately... Will do some more research and also look closer to home for alternatives.

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

Too bad you need 200-240V to use it, kinda leaves the US out

For 120v users, there is the DPS-1001AB. They are rated at 700w on 120v (1000w on 220v). I've run a single unit up to 860 watts on 120v, no ssues. These units can be run in parallel and I currently have two running in parallel. There's even a low current 12v output. Only issues that they are kind of heavy.

[gothicbunny]

You are running them in parallel increasing the current or series increasing the voltage? From my understanding power supplies do not normally do well acting in parallel without some form of load balancing circuit. Otherwise the load is pretty much handled by whichever has even the tiniest voltage higher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[dwelzel]

On a related note, I have a 1200 watt PSU driving my 4010. It is currently plugged in to a 110 outlet which if I do the math correctly, should be able to drive the PSU.

However, I have a 240v outlet in the garage for charging my car and the PSU can accept 240 input.. is there any advantage to using it?

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by gothicbunny

You are running them in parallel increasing the current or series increasing the voltage? From my understanding power supplies do not normally do well acting in parallel without some form of load balancing circuit. Otherwise the load is pretty much handled by whichever has even the tiniest voltage higher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

They are 48v supplies running parallel. The supplies include a load sharing pin that must be connected on all supplies connected in parallel. Many of the server supplies include this feature. Its just rarely used since most supplies are 12v and most application require 24v. The series connection works, but the supplies were not designed to run that way and need ground modification. The supplies are designed to run in parallel without modification.

[gothicbunny]

Thanks for the info. I am going to have to do some more research on this. I haven't been a fan of the floating ground mod for series connections. My next charging sett up I will do a little more planning on, but what I have works for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Kiba]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

Wow, that PSU is awesome I found one on eBay for $40, for 2950W, 48V. That is impressive. Too bad you need 200-240V to use it, kinda leaves the US out

It lists a 51.4V output. The 4010 Duo specs show 50V max input. Is that a problem? Can the PSU output be adjusted down, to avoid potentially damaging the charger?

True; initially that's cause for concern but there are many users here and on RCGroups using the ESP120 with the 4010 without issue.

If you're truly worried, here are instructions how to modify the power supply and adjust the output voltage:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1823759

Provided you have 220/240V to feed it the ESP120 is probably the most bang for the buck in terms of powering the 4010-- cheap, simple (single power supply), and powerful.

I have several 240V outlets in my garage and considered ESP120's to power my 4010's but that wouldn't work in the field as my EF2000is generator is 120V.

[The claw NZ]

My interim setup, when running in series they output 48v, 42A constant (so 2,000W) and peak at 82A. Set them up as 2 standalone PSU's, with a jumper cable to run them in series. Got some plexiglas to put over the PSU'S once I finalise the wiring etc



Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2