Transition/Upgrade

[nmsuman]

So I am now getting accustomed to 'nose in' hovering, circuts, and coordinated turns. Been doing so on MSRx, 120SR, V911. However, in order go maybe open up my flight opportunities with acuatl stick time away from the simulator I am looking to upgrade to a larger heli.

Criteria:
1. More weight/stability to combat the near insesint +6mph winds for this part of Germany.
2. Variable pitch tail for increased maneuverability and feedback for left coordinated turns as those on which I learn are poor at based on fixed pitch nature.
3. Compatibility with Futabe T6J or yet to be delivered Spektrum DX6


My 'image' of the next heli that I have thought of over the last 6+ months has been an Align 450 pro to mate with my Futaba T6J. At the same time, I see the Blade 200 SR X. That though still has a fixed pitch head and tail.

Would 500+ Class be worth the trouble. At that point repair costs become the question.

Looking for honest feedback.

[myxiplx]

I went with mCPX BL, and it was one of the best things I bought. I've flown it in 25mph storms and it still had power to spare. It'll bounce about a bit in wind, but that does wonders for your reflexes, and its small enough to bounce from most crashes (near 100% if you fly over grass and hit TH). If you have an indoor gym or warehouse available anywhere its great for indoor piro practice.

Anything larger will tend to come with higher crash costs. A 450 size would probably be a good option, and the Gaui X3 seems to have the best overall rating for surviving crashes well and flying great.

[DCflyer]

Congrats on your progress.

The question of whether to go 450 or 500 one that is asked frequently and will yield many different opinions. Many people will say to just get a 500 and skip the 450 since its more stable and easier to see. However, it will be more expensive to fix (not by much), and you will need a bigger space/field for it as the step up in power/blade size is quite significant.

There are "500's" that use 430mm blades and real true 500's like the Mikado 480, the HD Cell 500, Gaui X5, Logo 400, etc that use 470mm-520mm blades.

On the other hand, 450's have grown and matured vastly in the last year or so. All the new 450's with 6S setups swinging 350mm blades are very capable machines that fly much bigger than your typical 320mm 3S setups. You would not be disappointed moving up to one of these as it will be plenty of helicopter for you to grow into.

[aevans692]

Stepping up to a bigger heli ...

I would recommend the 450 , this does seem like the normal route for most , The kit and crash cost are inexpensive , the packs are cheap , you don't need expensive charging equipment ...

The down side is , they get small fast , and can be a little awkward to work on due to their size , and they seem to have a lower tolerance with regard to parts precision ..

If I were to buy another 450 , I would go for the 450L this is a great little heli ... the super combo's are a nice inexpensive way to get everything you need ...

[skunkworx]

I would be stuck on either the mCPX BL or a 450. Namely, the micro will likely take a beating and keep the learning curve costs significantly low, but then again a 450 is an extremely viable size to start off with (it's what I learned everything on and still the one I fly the most).

I don't know what prices are like in Germany, but a decent crash will run around $75+ on a 450 between blades, shafts, bearings, maybe a canopy or battery, and other incidentals. 25C packs will be sufficient all the way up to full-on 3D flying, so don't buy into anything more expensive because you simply don't need it (for the time being). Align 325D blades are brilliant IMHO and at $15-$20 per pair, they beat the brakes off just about any other blade by comparison for daily flying/price point. I do, however, recommend getting something without a torque-tube simply for cost reasons. If you do get something that has one (like a 450 Pro, etc...) then look into the tail block that allows for quicker swaps of the front gears because you're going to go through an astonishing amount of them (I probably blow out 10 of them in a month) and yanking the entire rear end of the heli off every time gets extremely annoying.

But that's where the upside of the mCPX comes in. It almost never breaks, and when it does, it's easy and cheap to fix for the most part and it'll do 95% of all the same moves and maneuvers you can do on a larger ship which will take quite a long time to achieve anyway. I used to be able to crash mine on purpose to demo just how tough the little thing was and I would simply put it back on its skids and keep flying (the majority of the time). I learned every last one of my orientations on it and I advanced what seemed years in my flying ability, in a very short amount of time because I was never scared to crash it.

There definitely comes a point where it starts to drop off in its effectiveness, but I spent a full year and a half on almost nothing but the mCPX and I think I'm 10X better off for it.

[short fuse]

With all due respect, I disagree on the mcpx bl. I think it's for more advanced pilots - not so much a trainer.
I'd go with a 500 or 450, and for me the choice would be determined by space first and repair costs second.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Originally Posted by short fuse

With all due respect, I disagree on the mcpx bl. I think it's for more advanced pilots - not so much a trainer.
I'd go with a 500 or 450, and for me the choice would be determined by space first and repair costs second.

That's awesome! I guess I am already quite advanced in this case as I LOVE mine!

All kidding aside, outdoors, the mCPX BL will surprise you. I have nothing but great things to say about it, and I do fly mine inside as well.

Yes, you need to be proficient with throttle hold for this crashability to be fully realized. Yes, it is fiddly to repair. But it does everything anyone in their first year could ever dream of doing I think. And nothing else will do it cheaper with full cyclic control.

And I personally guarantee there is no better trainer of subconscious collective management than flying circuits with an mCPX BL on a windy day. Wow!

I have my doubleBL with me always. Even a 250 is not that small. You'll find yourself flying in more places and on more occasions because you don't need to worry about severely hurting anyone.

They are hard to see if you let them get away, though.

obi

[Aryemis]

Yeah the part you missed is that a mcpx BL does not fly as well as a double brushless mcpx.
For whatever reason the BL feels less accurate in the air, not to mention the tail hold leaves alot to be desired. I had two BL's at one point, but they just did not fly well enough, it was harder to try new things with them than with the 450 because they are that much more inaccurate and the tail hold is really meh.
I sold them because even though I could fly them anywhere, it just wasn't fun.
I have progressed since then and I think I would manage a mcxp BL better now, but I certainly wouldn't recommend one to a beginner looking to begin cp.

I would recommend getting a nano cpx to master the basics of CP, and then move on to a 450 (the X3 is the best right now in my opinion). Also, the nano cpx won't do as much 3D as a mcpx BL, but it can really be flown anywhere.

[mba83]

MCPX BL. Just need to get a better tail blade for good tail hold. It's a great first CP heli because it's durable. You will crash a lot, and with a 450 you will end having to repair it after every crash. With the BL: you just pick it up and fly again.

MBA

[ronm3313]

In my opinion Fixed Pitch doesn't prepare you for Collective pitch. It certainly didn't prepare me. I think this is a pretty commonly held opinion.

My advice is to pick up a stock mCPx. It can even be used. The goal is to get some real life collective pitch stick time. As others have stated the mCPx crash cost is minimal. I suspect you'll crash quite a bit as you make the transition to CP.

It's becoming more popular for guys to learn on a micro and then buy a 500 or larger! In other words use the mCPx to get over the crash phase and then move to something larger.

[Crowbar]

I'd go for an mCPX BL. Very sturdy, plenty powerful in the wind (constant wind is good, gusts are annoying) and the tail is actually holding,

Put the bullet blades on it, a glass fiber canopy (I like the Microheli canopies for this heli, very visible and durable) and 333 mAh LiPos (myLipo.de). All of this will make it very gentle and stable. Work on hovering, small stall turns and figure 8s.

If you can fly around without crashing as long as you're only doing the things you're comfortable with, look into the T-Rex 450 Pro or the Gaui X3. The T-Rex is cheaper (3S batteries, 325mm blades, servos included) but doesn't crash too well. Usually servo gears, tail drive gears, main gear, DFC links, main and tail shaft, some bolts, tail boom and tail supports. The Gaui X3 is a bit more expensive (here's a good set, only needs servos and FBL-System added: http://www.rcheli-store.de/Gaui/Bauk...=16211&p=16211) but people here say it crashes very well and you can order all the parts.
Another good option for a first proper heli would be the Protos 500. Cheap, sturdy, nice sounding.

[HeliHamish]

WALKERA V120D02S

It's a CP, much more reliable than the 130X and a perfect first step into CP, just look at some reviews on this thing

It's a variable pitch tail rotor, a little bigger than the MCPX, and there is now a version out that is compatible with Futaba, it's a win win!

[myxiplx]

Hamish, how do the servos on the V120D02S hold up after crashes? I've heard good things about that little bird, but I had a bad experience with the servos on my Super CP.

It's one thing I love about the mCPX BL, there's a bit of slop of those linear servos but they're tough as nails, 50+ crashes and I've never had to touch the servos.

The V120 is still tempting me though :-)

[skunkworx]

Honestly, part of how 'crappy' the micros fly is what makes them so good at teaching you how to fly. You are forced to learn quick reactions and how to lead the heli, not let it lead you, so I maintain that they are perfect for learning on. You don't really bust out 3D stuff in your first year, so why spend all that money on a competition edition machine if all you're going to do is wad the thing up every time you go fly?

I didn't start out with a micro, but now that they are around I guess I get to appreciate how much better I've become as a result of flying them. Trust me, you'll take years getting comfortable doing inverted pirouetting-8's on a 450 because even as small as they are they can take a limb off if you hit yourself with it. A micro will just bounce and at worst you get a papercut (unless something really catastrophic happens and you take out an eye or something).

[TucsonFlyer]

Originally Posted by myxiplx

Hamish, how do the servos on the V120D02S hold up after crashes? I've heard good things about that little bird, but I had a bad experience with the servos on my Super CP.

It's one thing I love about the mCPX BL, there's a bit of slop of those linear servos but they're tough as nails, 50+ crashes and I've never had to touch the servos.

The V120 is still tempting me though :-)

The servos hold up pretty well on the cyclic, especially if you don't go in at full pitch. Personally I had more issues with tail servos but it's all luck really.

If you do the slipper clutch mod for the tail and fly over grass you'll have lots and lots of no damage crashes in your future. I also recommend replacing the carbon canopy rod with a straightened paper clip. Some folks also have gotten certain types of wire to work as "fuses" as the main gear pin so the wire shears before you hurt your servos.

Good luck!

[Jermo]

500 or larger size that you can afford to repair. Look around to see what has local support and/or find a local pilot/group to see what they are doing. See if you can find a mentor.

Fly what's common in your area as it will likely have the best support.

As the rotor gets larger the stability goes up dramatically.

[Luigi_tuga]

Originally Posted by Jermo

500 or larger size that you can afford to repair. Look around to see what has local support and/or find a local pilot/group to see what they are doing. See if you can find a mentor.

Fly what's common in your area as it will likely have the best support.

As the rotor gets larger the stability goes up dramatically.

I can't agree on this one.
OP has no experience with CP. All the stick time he has is on FP.

A small heli to transition is the best thing to do IMHO.

A MCPX bl (better then the v2) is as unbreakable as helis get, and it costs maybe the same as crashing a 500 once

It will never have the stability from a bigger bird but it will save tons of cash. will always be a nice tool to progress, allowing to try new stuff with no fear at all.

[kpod]

I seem to always hear, go 450, then get a 550, then use the 550 packs and get a 12s 700. I'm kinda liking my current setup for a cheaper progression. Start on a micro over grass for learning hovering, orientations, and basic stuff. Then get a 500. Then use those packs in a 12s 600.

Now I need to find an 18s 3300mah powered 800.