CPII : 3 way switch option

[ROGER G]

If you use a 3 way switch to control the CPII AND like to fly with it ON most of the time, then I found an interesting option that I tested , and it works extremely well ! What I have set up on the switch is :

Soft Level
Off
Hard Level

I have the basic settings as : Pitch and Roll GAIN 50 %
Stick priority at 100 %
Auto Trim at 3

Now, you can adjust sensitivity on either side of Off on your Xmitter by using the endpoint (ATV, servo travel, what ever you call it ) ajustment. So, what you get is on the SOFT side of of the Switch
Position, a nice, slower, smooth return to level. But when you switch to the HARD side of the switch, you get FULL copilot authority ! And what's nice is that since you have to move the switch thru OFF, it arms the emergency recovery option, if you have it turned ON . Also, you don't have worry about Stick Priority because when you have the GAIN turned down on the Soft side, the cyclic feels completely normal ! It doesn't feel like your fighting the copilot !
Now, one word of caution , when adjusting the endpoint on you Xmitter, you MUST HAVE the IR controller in the screen that shows the switch position your in and the % . When you adjust the Xmitter, look at ONLY at the % on the IR controller ! For some reason the % on the Xmitter does not correlate to the % on the IR controller. But HONEST, it really works great ! I fly my Heli around and it feels normal like I have the copilot off , but if I let go off the sticks, it returns to level in a Soft way! Another bonus I found is that when I get the Heli going forward in flight, I don't have to hold any forward stick ! It stays in level forward flight by itself. The % I have showing on the IR controller is 45 % ( I know that seems low, but it works) When you switch to position 2 on the switch, ( hard Level ) it should show. 100 %
So, the end result of all this, is that I have the best of both worlds! Nice and easy return to level flight OR hard and fast return to level flight at the flip of a switch !

Roger

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by ROGER G

And what's nice is that since you have to move the switch thru OFF, it arms the emergency recovery option, if you have it turned ON .
Roger

Roger,

Have you tested this? I've found that if you flip through Off really fast Co-pilot does not see it. It just sees the new sensitivity and not the momentary zero in the middle.

[ROGER G]

Craig, you could be correct. I flew probly 10 flights testing out this switch option, and maybe only one time did I put the heli in a attitude that would meet the ER parameters. To me, it SEEMED to be faster than normal level, but I also know the ER is active for only 2 seconds.
And I could have hesitated, long enough, in the Off position before going to ' HARD '. Thanks Craig , for pointing this out , and I apologize to everyone who reads the post if my testing was incorrect in regards to th ER function ! Have to go out to the field and check this out some more. But, the normal level in the ' HARD ' position is still pretty darn quick ! What I did over and over again was to roll or pitch the heli and while it was coming back to level in the SOFT mode, hit the switch, and the heli instantly ' snapped ' back to level. I put it in vertical 90 deg. Pitch and 90 deg. Roll attitudes and then hit the HARD position, and it, again, SEEMED to me, that the ER was active, because of how fast it snapped back to level. But, I could be incorrect in my assumptions !

Roger

[jperkosk]

Roger, I fail to see how the servo travel limits on the Tx would affect the SL (self level) speed of the CP2. Once the stick is centered, it's centered, and CP2 takes over, regardless of the cyclic endpoints on your Tx.

The SL speed is defined by:

• roll and pitch gains
• servo travel limit on the CP2

And neither of them are adjustable from the Tx, they're adjustable from IR programmer directly on CP2.


You maybe getting the feeling of different SL action because with longer servo travel limits on the Tx for a given stick priority the SL gets disabled faster (with smaller cyclic input), but what you're observing is actually SL action close to the center stick, not at the very center, as CP2 disables SL gradually with cyclic input. At the center stick there will be no Hard Level or Soft Level, there will only be Self Level.

What you're achieving by your method is effectively equal to changing Stick Priority with the flip of the switch on the Tx, which is indeed a very interesting concept, I have never thought of it

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

Roger, I fail to see how the servo travel limits on the Tx would affect the SL (self level) speed of the CP2. Once the stick is centered, it's centered, and CP2 takes over, regardless of the cyclic endpoints on your Tx.

I use this all the time. I use a slider on the TX to adjust the sesitivity. If you select the "slider" option when doing the quick set-up, then you can use a switch to adjust the sensitivity. You have to use the end-points on the CP-II control channel to adjust the CP-II sensitivity.

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by ROGER G

Craig, you could be correct. I flew probly 10 flights testing out this switch option, and maybe only one time did I put the heli in a attitude that would meet the ER parameters. To me, it SEEMED to be faster than normal level, but I also know the ER is active for only 2 seconds.
And I could have hesitated, long enough, in the Off position before going to ' HARD '. Thanks Craig , for pointing this out , and I apologize to everyone who reads the post if my testing was incorrect in regards to th ER function ! Have to go out to the field and check this out some more. But, the normal level in the ' HARD ' position is still pretty darn quick ! What I did over and over again was to roll or pitch the heli and while it was coming back to level in the SOFT mode, hit the switch, and the heli instantly ' snapped ' back to level. I put it in vertical 90 deg. Pitch and 90 deg. Roll attitudes and then hit the HARD position, and it, again, SEEMED to me, that the ER was active, because of how fast it snapped back to level. But, I could be incorrect in my assumptions !

Roger

In the pre-flight menu, on the screen where the CP-II sensitivity is displayed, it tells you if emergency recovery is trigered. Just lay the heli on its side and flip the switch while keeping an eye on the programmer. You will see it ER is triggered.

[jperkosk]

Originally Posted by Adventurer

I use this all the time. I use a slider on the TX to adjust the sesitivity. If you select the "slider" option when doing the quick set-up, then you can use a switch to adjust the sensitivity. You have to use the end-points on the CP-II control channel to adjust the CP-II sensitivity.

So if you select slider you can't switch the CP2 off?

[nightflyr]

You can I would guess if you select either the low, mid or high end point as the off position during quick setup

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

So if you select slider you can't switch the CP2 off?

Yes you can - one end of the switch/slider range is full on, and the other is completely off. CP-II learns this range during setup.

I used to use a 3 position, switch with the three positions being 0% - 32% - 100%. You need the 0% position to initialise an FBL unit, and 32% feels like CP-II is off, but smooths-out turbulent wind nicely on a 450 and 100% is for those oh-s..t moments. Now I use a slider, with it fully forward for initialise and normal flight, and I can dial-in a bit of stabilisation (15% - 30%) when its a bit choppy, or if I want to relax, and I can still bang it all the way back during the pucker moments.

[jperkosk]

As I never set-up a CP2 with a slider or a knob, please help me understand. When I select 2 or 3-pos switch then CP2 recognizes a channel output level assigned to switch position exclusively as a command to select a programmed flight mode.

What's different about the slider mode? Is the channel output still used to select a flight mode? Or is it used to control pitch and roll gains?

[ROGER G]

In response to the question by jperkosk, I was told either in the instructions or verbally on the phone with FMA, that the GAIN adjustments on th IR controller controls the OUTPUT OF THE OP AMPS in the SENSORS. And that when you use the control knob on the Xmitter. You are controlling SERVO TRAVEL. They both do the same thing, REDUCE SENSITIVITY, but just in a different way. That's we're I got the idea to use the SERVO TRAVEL ( ATV) on the Xmitter to get two levels of sensitivity on one switch ! The KNOB on the Xmitter is probly the best way to adjust , but the problem with that, THE BIG PROBLEM ,is that I have to take my fingers off of the cyclic stick to use it ! And I have to take my eyes off of the Heli to FIND the darn knob !! With the 3 way switch , I can put it in any position , with one finger and still keep my thumb on the collective stick !!! Anyway, this is just a forum that I can pass along anything I find out or learn and so I don't pretend to be a EXPERT, just an average Heli flyer !

Roger

[ricoalonso]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

As I never set-up a CP2 with a slider or a knob, please help me understand. When I select 2 or 3-pos switch then CP2 recognizes a channel output level assigned to switch position exclusively as a command to select a programmed flight mode.

What's different about the slider mode? Is the channel output still used to select a flight mode? Or is it used to control pitch and roll gains?

It will be used to select either OFF or Flight Mode (only one will be available).

I only used the control knob once and not for long but the way I remember it is that you have to specify to CPII that you are using a control knob for the Remote Switch and CPII will know that your Remote Switch can only send signals for one FLight Mode and OFF.

[ROGER G]

The IR controller will ask what type of switch you are using. When you enter slider or knob, it will ask you to move it to it's full off position then enter that, then it will ask you to move the control to it's full on position and you enter that. So it's like a switch in that you have to move the slider or knob from off to full on. BUT, you have a variable sensitivity in between off and on ! Which is great IF you can get to the slider or knob easy enough and if you can turn or slide it fast enough to go from say a mid setting to full on for ' bail out ' . I could not on my dx7s . That's why I prefer the 3 way switch. However, I am thinking of going inside the Xmitter and seeing if I can move the knob to where the 3 way switch is ! Now that would work great for me !

[jperkosk]

I think I understand it now, just two more questions and a suggestion:

• So if the knob (slider) channel (Aux2 in our case) goes to sensitivity adjustment on CP2, does anyone know what it's actually changing? Servo travel/throw? Aile/Pitch gains? Something else, not accessible otherwise from IR programmer?
• In knob/slider mode, would the ER still activate?
• Whatever it is, if you're going to use it for bailout, imho you're better off leaving it on the switch, the knob will be way too slow to turn in emergency.

Rich, could you please nudge Tim to wake up and clarify this please, he's beginning to take this weekend-with-family thing too seriously

[sutty]

Interesting, and I have been following this with interest. It is kind of more and more on isn't it. I thought I had read this elsewhere, that it is not just on or off, if you have a slider, maybe night had mentioned it. Perhaps it simply gives you 0 - your curent gain settings, proportionally? That would be my bet.

Hopefully we will find out soon.

Cheers

Sutty

[Adventurer]

Originally Posted by jperkosk

[*]In knob/slider mode, would the ER still activate?

Short Answer: Yes

I use CP-II in "slider mode" and if I bang the slider all the way from off to full-on[1] then ER does activate. I've confirmed this by watching the programmer while doing it.

[1] This is very easy to do on the A9, as your index finger rests on the slider if you thumb, and all you have to do is curl your finger like you're pulling a trigger.

[nightflyr]

Giving that the channels end point are say 0 / 100 or - 100 / 0 / 100....
And say you select a 3 way switch for example.

If you set the "off" position at mid point and your 2 other flight modes at either end from there.
The CPII will know what the travel limits are required for each mode...
Now if you "slider " to a value less than the max recorded limit, it would seem logical that you will reduce the over all control CPII will exert on the helicopter.

Only gating question is how it would affect ER...
Normally in that case you go from CPII off (0) to full on (100) or (-100) to (100) when the helicopter is put into an extreme attitude.

How the CPII will see the slider ramp up from "off" to full on is the question..
I would guess if your quick enough on the slider it should function.

[ROGER G]

I was told it was the amount of servo travel you were adjusting on the knob or slider. But in the end it really doesn't matter as long as the GAINS are set at the right levels on IR controller. The knob or slider will give you off to full on, up to your gain settings, AND VARIBLE sensitivity . As a matter of fact, one of the screens on the IR controller is MAX SERVO TRAVEL. It's default is 100 % . I tried turning this down to 85 % just to see what would happen, and it slowed the return to level a good amount, but the copilot performed normally. And yes this would defeat ' bail out ' . As far as the ER goes, to make that work, the switch or knob or slider HAS TO start From the OFF POSITION no mater what type of switch your using. And as discussed, I can't move the knob qiuick enough at it's location on the DX7s .