If your YGE gets warm....read here

[joe1l]

I dont claim to be a YGE expert but i do own quite a few of them and credit them not quitting this hobby. My first 7 months in this hobby left me with 4 ESC's (3 Castle 1 Scorpion) that caught fire...3 (Castle ) more that failed during flight causing crashes and 2 CC BEC PRO's which caused 3 different crashes. This is when i found YGE which if not for their reliability and quality i would of just quit the hobby. Anyhow all those fires and electrical failures taught me alot about the hobby. I've probably gained 10 years of setup expertise and in 2.5years. So even though my flying isn't stellar my setup is pretty darn good.

Ok back to the YGE. Right now I run a YGE100LV with Vbar gov on an X5, YGE80LV on TREX450 with SK720 gov, YGE120LV on Outrage 550, YGE90HV Fusion50. plus a new YGE120HV for upcoming X7... I also have 3 Jives.

Much of the below info is the same for most ESC's but since most YGE's do not have big heavy heat-sinks attached hence scaring people. Truth is with a proper setup you should never need one, unless you have a very little to zero airflow.

i've mixed matched these ESC's with various Scorpion, Xera and Neu motors amongst all my helis and have personally compared direct performance and measured heat differnces with my Jive80 LV, 100LV and 80HV and in every case i have that the YGE and comparable jive have performed almost identical with identical ESC temps if not lower Probably due to external BEC etc.

The below info assumes you have purchased an ESC that is sized properly for your heli with sufficient headroom. If you are using 100LV and are pulling 100amps continuous then you will have heat issues regardless which ESC you use.

When i have seen heat issues on the YGE or my attached motor it was usually one of a few things.

1.) First...pinion to main gear mesh being too tight. I saw this happen 2 times where my YGE post flight temp was much higher than it had ever been prior...what i found is if you are running say a 100LV on a Outrage550 with a motor rated for 90+amps like the 4025-1100, too tight a gear mesh will increase your current to the point that your ESC will start to run hot. You will also notice motor and battery temps increase too. I"m not suggesting a loose gear mesh but in my cases, i found that i my pinion was not meshing properly causing slight binding. For me I had simply switched pinions to the new Outrage pinions and found that top portion of the pinion which is larger and not as cut out was rubbing the top of my main gear.. Now performance seemed fine so it wasnt evident during flight but post flight would show hot motor/ESC. a simple adjustment reduced both motor and ESC temp alot.

2.) If your gear mesh and gear train is smooth and you are still having heat issues using an External GOVS (vbar/Sk720) you should double check your FBL/YGE Throttle Calibration. If you do not calibrate your throttle with YGE and FBL gov like vbar or SK720 you can have overheating. For instance if you calibrate your throttle using the YGE prog card and standard TX then use the vbar external gov without RE-Calibrating endpoints using prog card and Vbar you will most likely have issues. I'm not exactly sure why this causes overheating but it has been seen on a few controllers in the vbar forums....i want to thank Velocity90 for pointing this one out to me! If you are having heat issue using external gov and you think calibration was done correctly then i suggest re-setting your Throtte endpoints again using the Prog Card and std RX. Turn off the external gov and enable YGE std gov, flying it with a flat throttle of 75%. You should then compare temps. If no issue exists with YGE gov then it is most likely a calibration issue.

3.) PWM and timing. If your gear mesh and gear train is smooth and you are still finding that your Motor or ESC are running too hot then next thing to look at is timing/PWM. I have seen decreases in motor and ESC temps by as much as 30+ degrees (F)
First PWM...Scorpion recommends 8, Xera recommends 12. I have found that 8 works well with all my Scorpions but pwm of 12 did not work well AT ALL with any of my Xera's.
Instead here's a formula I ran across thats supposed to figure the proper PWM that so far has been working for me.
Kv x Volts (nominal you are using) x Pole count / 20
For my Xera 4025 motor is 8 pole 560kv running on 12s so
560(kv) x 44.4(voltage) = 24864 x 8 (poles) = 198912 / 20 = 9945 so i started by rounding up to a PWM of 10k & it has performed excellent where as at 12 i had issues. I also tried rounding down to 9 and it still worked excellent..smoother sounding gov. When I compared the motor temp between 12 and 10/9 it was a decrease of 20+ degrees.
I used the same formula for my Xera 4020 and 4030...all ended up working much better and feeling stronger at a different PWM then std 12 suggested!
So far all the scorpions i have owned have worked fine at 8...and when using the above formula...somehow ended up at 8 anyway so i usually suggest starting at 8 with a scorpion then adjusting if PWM calc comes out with a different result or if some reason you are having issues.
With my Neu1907's (recommended 12) I found that with the 1Y -1400kv a pwm of 12 -14 worked perfect but on my 1.5y 915kv 8 or 9 worked much better...again the same calc was used.

Timing: this direct From the YGE manual but i missed it the first few times.
Inrunner 0 to 12°
Outrunner 18 to 30°

For instance if you come from a castle or you look at the Scorpion spec sheet you will see timing of 5 degrees or low. therefore many people select 6...instead a value of 18 should be chosen since it is considered low for Outrunners on the YGE.
I found that on all my Scorpions and Xera's setting the timing to 18 has worked perfect. I have experimented with 24 and 30 as well and usually the motor will run slightly warmer but slightly stronger. On my 4020-910 Special editions, i have run them at 24 and 30 when using smaller pinions (lower HS) and 18 with bigger pinions. The same is true with my Xera's on 6s. On 12S, the power is more than enough but have found similar results with increasing the timing to 24 and 30. Whenever i have tried running a scorpion/Xera at 0 through 12 i would have poor results and increased motor temps. This can even be more complicated if your PWM value is not correct. For instance with my Xera 560... following Xera's FAQ i set PWM to 12 and timing to 6. My power on 12S was still very good but motor would be at 150 degrees after a mild 5min flight... Changing the PWM to 10 and timing to 18 saw my motor temp drop to 118 F for the same 5 min flight and increase in performance feel. Even my YGE90HV dropped in temp by 10degrees but it wasn't really warm to start so it was less of a concern. I found that even after increasing my timing to 24 or 30 with the same Xera sill ran in the 120's once the PWM was changed.
Also after making any ESC prog changes with Prog card or not, Always be sure to restart the ESC and double checking your PWM and timing values using the Prog Card to ensure they did not get re-set. This can easily happen to anyone!

4.) Throttle Curve. When ever using internal gov you should plan your pinion choice /gearing using a flat throttle curve of 70 to 80% . If you find that 75% provides too high a HS then you should lower your pinion. I have flown as low as 60% without issue but only in cases where I am still able to run 80%. Running too low a throttle curve for extended periods will cause motor / ESC to run warmer and result in decreased flight time.
During very HOT Summer days too low a throttle curve for extended periods can cause thermal shutdowns. Many people (regardless ESC) will run a smaller pinion and higher throttle curves (85 to 90%) during hot weather.

[Wogboy]

Interesting info, and thanks for taking the time to post.

I was particularly interested in your thoughts on timing, since I've been feeling that my Logo 600 (90HV + Scorp 4035-500) feels a bit flat on performance. I originally setup 6 degree timing (as recommended by Scorpion) and felt this setup lacked punch, despite the headspeed. Now I'm running "Auto" timing, so no idea what it's actually running, and there's no noticeable improvement in performance. I have also wanted to try the higher range as recommended by YGE, but haven't yet had a chance. Hopefully this weekend I'll have time.

[wolfdown]

This is great info. I have run 5 flights on my YGE Gov mode @ 85%. I really didn't know what a good setting was, so I think i'll step it down to 80% this weekend. Would you say 90% is probably the absolute max?

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by Wogboy

Interesting info, and thanks for taking the time to post.

I was particularly interested in your thoughts on timing, since I've been feeling that my Logo 600 (90HV + Scorp 4035-500) feels a bit flat on performance. I originally setup 6 degree timing (as recommended by Scorpion) and felt this setup lacked punch, despite the headspeed. Now I'm running "Auto" timing, so no idea what it's actually running, and there's no noticeable improvement in performance. I have also wanted to try the higher range as recommended by YGE, but haven't yet had a chance. Hopefully this weekend I'll have time.

I'll be honest, i only use auto timing when i'm testing a motor i'm not familiar with or if i'm trying to track down some other type of issue and dont feel like playing with timing. I have had much better luck adjusting the timing manually.

As for your Scorpion i would just start with 18 then try 24 , then 30 keeping an eye on motor / battery temp at the end of your flights. I use a laser temp gun this way i can compare accurately. I actually had a scorpions motor run warmer when using 0 or 6 for timing. IF your motor is feeling flat on top then i'd definitely increase it. Keep in mind if you are running Gov Store mode you must reset your gov in order for the timing change to take affect. This is why i recommend using the std gov mode when first setting up a motor to get your settings then switch to gov store OR external gov when your satisfied.

One major update I wish YGE would make is an Auto PWM and better Auto Timing. The jive's Auto PWM and timing seems to work well on Scorpions usually giving you a solid setup but on other motors the power can feel a bit flat having better results using the YGE PWM and timing settings.

[Mystic3D]

Joe.

Excellent Information, your formula seems to work for my Xera also, 4035 and 4530 on YGE 160HV and VBar Gov.

Getting the PWM and Timing right results in more power and cooler ESC. My Motor temps have been pretty much the same around 140F so I just focus on ESC.

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by wolfdown

This is great info. I have run 5 flights on my YGE Gov mode @ 85%. I really didn't know what a good setting was, so I think i'll step it down to 80% this weekend. Would you say 90% is probably the absolute max?

It depends on the heli really but normal rule of thumb s to leave 15 to 20% headroom. On a very light 6S heli i've gone as high as 90% but on 12S i'd probably go to 85% max.

[mfremont]

Thanks for sharing this!

I've been a bit confused as to why YGE and Scorpion recommend such different values for timing. As a result, I was flying the 90HV and 4025-630 with 6º timing. Although the RPM was decent, the gov seemed to have enough headroom and the motor and ESC would come down fairly cool, the heli lacked punch. I thought it was mostly just the tired packs (around 70 cycles and IR starting to tick up).

Today I tried 18º timing and kept the PWM at 8kHz, as you recommend. At the same gov % head speed is now about 125 RPM higher, the gov seems to be better, the heli feels like it has more punch, and the motor and ESC even came down a little cooler (as measured with a non-contact IR thermometer). I don't have a logger at the moment, so I lack detailed data, but with similar flights the packs ended up at about the same final voltage. Of course, one flight was more fun.

[fusionsx00]

the settings joe1 gave me worked,

thanks,

im sure when i get it back ,,,, the same settings i used before will work just as good.


maybee we should start a sticky, with our setups and our settings???

this way it would be esy for a new user to get a starting point on there similar setup

[wolfdown]

Originally Posted by mfremont

Thanks for sharing this!

I've been a bit confused as to why YGE and Scorpion recommend such different values for timing.

Scorpion recommends 15 deg. What does YGE recommend?

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by wolfdown

Scorpion recommends 15 deg. What does YGE recommend?

YGE recommends 18 ( low for outrunner). Where did you see 15 degrees recommended?

[wolfdown]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...33&postcount=3

[uragano47812]

from your formula with Align 700MX 530kv (10 poles) on 12s motor the right pwm would be 11,766 so i can try 12 right (now i'm at 8)?

For the timing i have 18° now i will try to increase the value and see the power and temps. Now the motor is cold but here we are <10°C.

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by uragano47812

from your formula with Align 700MX 530kv (10 poles) on 12s motor the right pwm would be 11,766 so i can try 12 right (now i'm at 8)?

For the timing i have 18° now i will try to increase the value and see the power and temps. Now the motor is cold but here we are <10°C.

i would start with a PWM of 10 instead of 12. Rounding the pwm down usually has a performance advantage while rounding up should reduce motor temp slightly at a slight power cost. If it is performing well at 8 now without running warm then increasing the PWM may increase ESC temps while decreasing motor temp further. I always suggest rounding down and up when it comes to PWM (using the std gov only). You may find that increasing PWM will allow you to increase your timing giving your a little more power at higher RPM while maintaining decent motor temps.

I highly suggest getting a tach and some type of digital thermometer or laser temp gauge to help tune PWM and timing. The other important thing to use is your ears. You want to listen that the motor/gov are nice and smooth. simply put the heli in a hover and try your idle up1 , 2 and 3. I set them to 70, 80, and 90 when testing. If the gov sounds ruff or you see tail shaking from a PWM adjustment then you may have gone too high. I have found that too high a PWM will cause the motor to run rough at higher throttle positions 80%+. Timing adjustments will also change the tune of your motor hence its always good to set your PWM first then adjust your timing.
When testing your PWM only do very slow flying...try not to pull too much current as it may be difficult to duplicate between flights. I would set my timer to just under 4 min and hover it for most of the time varying between your preset throttle conditions. I'd do small figure 8's then land and measure the motor temp, esc temp and lipo temps. Before each flight take a temp reading of the ESC, motor and Lipos as a baseline. I'd start with pwm of 8 in your case (good starting point for any Outrunner) and then increase it to the rounded down value based on PWM calculation for your motor (10 for you) then try the rounded up value 12. Be sure you not adjust timing till you have settled on a PWM. You want a PWM that shows the least increase in temp among the motor, esc and Lipos. Depending on your ESC, motor and lipo this can vary. For instance with a PWM of 10 you may find that the motor is slightly warmer than it is with 12 but the ESC and lipos are cooler at 10. Once you choose your PWM you can try increasing your timing. Most of the time changing the timing from 18 to 24 will result in a slightly warmer motor, esc and lipo. 24 is considered medium timing for Outrunners which can cause some motor to run very hot or your packs to increase in temp alot. You do not want to use higher timing if you notice too great a change. You want to pay close attention to how your motor sounds when changing timing. Usually it will get smoother as it is increased but in some cases it can cause it to sound more harsh or even chirp in which case going back down would be better.

A very important tool to have handy is a tach. A tach will detect if your gov is running healthy or not. Under normal conditions the YGE using std gov should hold a headspeed with a small variance of about 40 to 60 rpm. If you find that the headspeed is varying by over 100 or is very jumpy then you are having issues. These issues can be caused by a bad PWM , timing value or most common EFI/ noise from a switching BEC.
A healthy setup should hold the Headspeed with only small change 40rpm or so, while maintaining consistent reasonable operating temps for Motor, ESC and Lipos.

[jacquesjb]

I have a X-Era 4020-1000 on my first Outrage and I use the recommanded setting from X-Era FAQ (18 degré timing and PWM at 12 Khz). I have a lot of power and everything stay cold.
I bought another X-Era for my second Outrage and before configuring my second YGE, I wondering if that setting are optimal.
By your formula, I should use 9 Khz as PWM instead 12Khz.
Is there any benifit to change 12 Khz to 9 Khz ?

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by jacquesjb

I have a X-Era 4020-1000 on my first Outrage and I use the recommanded setting from X-Era FAQ (18 degré timing and PWM at 12 Khz). I have a lot of power and everything stay cold.
I bought another X-Era for my second Outrage and before configuring my second YGE, I wondering if that setting are optimal.
By your formula, I should use 9 Khz as PWM instead 12Khz.
Is there any benifit to change 12 Khz to 9 Khz ?

Yes you will find that your motor runs smoother with more power. Too high a pwm has no benefit and actually can hurt gov performance.

[jacquesjb]

If I change the PWM, should I redo the Gov store setting?

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by jacquesjb

If I change the PWM, should I redo the Gov store setting?

Yes as PWM changes full throttle rpm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacquesjb]

What should I do in order the Esc redo the gov store calibration?

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by jacquesjb

What should I do in order the Esc redo the gov store calibration?

to redo gov store you just need to re-select gov store again from prog-card menu. Remember , whenever you select gov or gov store, you will always need to recycle your settings as it resets pwm and startup speeds back to defaults. The way i do it is select freewheel on, then select gov store... I then proceed to the blank line on the programming card (last line on page). I then hold down the select button, which then recalls then refreshes the settings. I then change heli soft to Slow, and PWM to whatever i want...(default is 8)

[wolfdown]

Originally Posted by joe1l

I then hold down the select button, which then recalls then refreshes the settings.

Can you explain what this step does, and why you put it in?