Tail Wag Cures

[Dr.Chopper]

Are you refering to the flight style setting on the beast x ? I have mine set on pro... but really you can set anyway you want. I have 9257 servo with my special carbon tube over metal pushrod with CA holding the rod tight in the carbon tube mod. Much better no flex, also running se tail with weights and 37mm batwings. I am also running a gyro sensitivity program mix for the for the flight mode switch norm runs 36% gain st1 is 80% throttle and 32% gain and st2 is 100% throttle 29% gain. Also running scorpion 3900kv with15t and stock esc. Gyro gain must go down with a faster head / tail speed.

[rccrazydoc]

well guys finally some good news....my wag is fixed and has been flying great for about 8 packs of hovering and little bit of forward flight... re-adjusted the servo on the mounts in such a way that there is absolutely no bend in the control rod...and i reduced my end-points on the rudder channel to 100...previously 110...wag is fixed( about 95%) occasional mild side wards swing is seen but not significant....maybe when i get a quark i might have a solid tail ....meanwhile i have a question...i have tucked in the esc and motor wires within the main frame and the gyro and servo wires too! the motor/esc wires are almost touching the gyro and its wires from the inside....can this be causing some interference in the gyro performance?....need some help soon guys!!
thank you
rgds

[DerekB]

I found a new possible cause of wag not listed yet. I am using a motor pinion with a setscrew, don't remember the brand. The setscrew is a little too long and was contacting the main gear at every revolution of the motor. I lowered the pinion a little on the motor, and the setscrew now clears the main gear.
Unfortunately, I still have some wag.
I am using a kevlar belt, just changed tail hub, tail spindle, switched to a metal bell crank on the tail, new boom, new main shaft, new main rotor hub. Everything else is straight and vibration free. I have tried digital and non digital settings on the gyro. ESC BEC is set to 5.0 volts. I am wondering if the aftermarket pinion is now the problem. It is not a smooth anodized finish, but raw machined aluminum. It looks a little sharp edged and has left some dark residue on the main gear, even now that it clears better. The mesh is good. Anyone else using these pinions? This is the set of three, all use a grub screw to hold them on.

[rccrazydoc]

guys no responses!! we need help people!

[Ralston]

I use a pinion with a setscrew with no problem.

[Ralston]

Originally Posted by rccrazydoc

well guys finally some good news....my wag is fixed and has been flying great for about 8 packs of hovering and little bit of forward flight... re-adjusted the servo on the mounts in such a way that there is absolutely no bend in the control rod...and i reduced my end-points on the rudder channel to 100...previously 110...wag is fixed( about 95%) occasional mild side wards swing is seen but not significant....maybe when i get a quark i might have a solid tail ....meanwhile i have a question...i have tucked in the esc and motor wires within the main frame and the gyro and servo wires too! the motor/esc wires are almost touching the gyro and its wires from the inside....can this be causing some interference in the gyro performance?....need some help soon guys!!
thank you
rgds

Move the wires and make sure the gyro is mounted solid.

[Steve Joblin]

As far as I understand, the only two electronic components that need to be separated are the motor and the reciever. You should not have any wires touching the gyro case because you don't want vibrations transferred to the gyro, not because of any signal interference.

[DerekB]

I will "unwrap" the wires from my gyro tonight. I had he extra length looped around the case just to keep it out of the way.
As for the pinion, I think I need to take it off and carefully inspec I along with the main gear. The mesh is good, but there does seem to be a bit of roughness when turning by hand. Probably one of my numerous crashes has damaged some of the teeth.

[DerekB]

Well, tail wag cured. I tried just about everything everyone posted, added some ideas of my own and in the end, by putting Align CF main blades on (new, and balanced) there is no tail wag. None whatsoever.....
Hooray I guess. Now what to do with the 6 sets of plastic other brand blades........
Edit; after one pack, wag was back. So, I thought about what putting new blades on might have cured for only one flight and decided to tighten the main blade grip screws. Well, this worked. My gain is back up to 65% with no wag. I'm aftaid to hit enter this time, only to go back to a wagging 250!!!

[rccrazydoc]

guys one more thing i have noticed, which i guess was mentioned earlier in one of the threads is that there is a sideways slop in the metal rotor unit between the 2 bearing units/!! and am sure this slop magnifies into a wag under high load and RPMs...i tried turning it around so that the outside is facing in....but thats a tight fit and the rotor doesnt move smoothly....one more solution i figured out was to file the ends of the small metal bolt that holds the 2 end screws together just a little bit, enough to remove the slop when you tighten the 2 screws....i hope this helps....

[DerekB]

To remove the tail blade slop you need to very very slightly file each end of
the hub. This seems to be a common Align tail hub issue. File off enough so that when reassembled and you pull outward on the tail grips there is no play. On mine, there was still some side to side play but taking off more material from the hub will cause the bearings to bind. Filing he ends of the screw should actually have no effect on the play.

[DWSchmidt]

Here is something that worked for me, and I haven't seen it posted before.

I have always heard that the tail blades should be just slightly snug in the grips. For the 250, I tightened the screws holding the tail blades a bit more than usual and all the wag went away. I can still move the blades if I push on them, but they wont move if I give the whole heli a shake. I have to retighten the tail rotor blade screws every few flights, but that seems like a small price to pay to have a solid tail.

For reference, I have the original 250 setup with the stock gyro and a JR3500 servo. I do have the metal tail support, but that's about it. I would call myself an "advanced beginner", as I can fly without training gear and do a bit of forward flight. (I'm better with my big Raptor). Hence a solid tail to me is no twitching in a hover and straight forward flight.

I am toying with the idea of trying the carbon control rod that others have used and adding a flybarless system, but right now, I am still learning the heli. I may upgrade if/when I crash.

Works for me.

D.W.

[Steve Joblin]

Here is a thread that has a few other thoughts and ideas to consider:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=275289

[aarsevin]

I second this! It solved my wag problems. My larger helis like loose blades in the tail. I think the 250 doesn't have enough weight in each tail blade lead-lag properly(This is a guess). I have cf tailblades, a 3g sensor mounted on the kde bottom plate. I also have the microheli grips and the align metal control arm. None of it solved the wag until I tightened the blades up. I have a cf control rod tube on the way, it may not even be a necessity now, but I will install it. I also knew it wasn't vibrations in the sensor because I have relatively high gains on the other two axes.

Originally Posted by DWSchmidt

Here is something that worked for me, and I haven't seen it posted before.

I have always heard that the tail blades should be just slightly snug in the grips. For the 250, I tightened the screws holding the tail blades a bit more than usual and all the wag went away. I can still move the blades if I push on them, but they wont move if I give the whole heli a shake. I have to retighten the tail rotor blade screws every few flights, but that seems like a small price to pay to have a solid tail.

For reference, I have the original 250 setup with the stock gyro and a JR3500 servo. I do have the metal tail support, but that's about it. I would call myself an "advanced beginner", as I can fly without training gear and do a bit of forward flight. (I'm better with my big Raptor). Hence a solid tail to me is no twitching in a hover and straight forward flight.

I am toying with the idea of trying the carbon control rod that others have used and adding a flybarless system, but right now, I am still learning the heli. I may upgrade if/when I crash.

Works for me.

D.W.

[DWSchmidt]

Glad to hear someone else can validate my results!

On a side note, I had a small mishap last Monday, so I went ahead and ordered the Align FBL head, microbeast FBL unit and parts to make the all carbon tail rod.

Hopefully it works as well! I have heard a lot of good reports, so I am very optimistic.

[Crashbash]

Hi,
Just finished my new 250 SE, all stock, very slight wag in hovering, I am running a Futaba 7C and am trying to find a happy medium for the gyro gain in normal curves before I go through the previously posted cures. I have tried lowering the delay to 50 and increased to 80 but no luck, just wondered if anybody has the same set up as me and can post there delay setting in normal HH for me to work on.
Cheers

Rob

[Steve Joblin]

You don't want any delay for a 250.

[Crashbash]

Thanks, one question on your first post you recommend to have the gain at 100%,on Futaba do you know what percentage would give me no gain.

Thanks
Rob

[aarsevin]

I have mine set to "A 14"(up) on the futaba 7c for heading hold and N 14(down) for rate. I only use the heading hold though really. I started at 20. Then it oscillated and I had to bring it down. I think no gain is literally 0 and would cause the heli to spin constantly.

[Crashbash]

Thanks for that, will try lower % settings tomorrow and take it from there.

Regards Rob