Futaba/BD3sx Question

[LoveToFly1]

i really hate to do this, but i have to ask, i cannot figure this part out on my own.

i have switched from the DX9 to the 14SGH. and the futaba programming is killing me. nothing like spektrum. i have most of what i need figured out, but a few things are still bugging me.

i cannot seem to setup 3 different tail gains on a switch other than the flight mode switch. the ONLY way i can setup that i can get 3 values on is by using my flight mode switch. i use that switch for HS changes, so i dont want to use that switch.

i also cannot figure out how to get a 3 position switch to use 3 different levels of SL.

i guess what is killing me is switch programming. in the DX9 i could assign the gov or gyro function to any 3 position switch on the heli and have 3 different values on them. for either tail gain, head gain, or SL. then one simple mix to make CR work. how in the world do you do this with Futaba?

i DO have CR working, but not the way i want to. what i had to do was swap gov for aux 5, and assign that channel to switch SH (the momentary switch on the right). i had to reverse the channel (as i saw in the setup videos is needed), then adjust the endpoints of the channel so when the switch is down, it is reading 0, then when i pull the switch, it goes to rescue. when i assigned a 3 position switch to try to do it the way i did with the DX9, all i could do was adjust the endpoints to get different values. which i couldn't get values of say 0, 15, 40 for SL...

can someone who has made the switch from spectrum to futaba please help me out here. i just need a little guidance. i can figure the rest out. i just need to get in the right place. thanks guys.

[Sonixs]

I've done the switch and I'm way happier with Futaba. Much easier to program and more flexible once you get your head around it.

What you're asking is quite a bit of typing. Would be easier via a telephone/Skype call. I'm in South Africa and willing to assist but not sure of the time change to you. It's currently 5:55pm here (at the time of the post). Pm me and we can make a plan.

Btw. Everything you want to do is doable [emoji12]


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[LoveToFly1]

thank you sir! my schedule is nuts too. give me a day or two to figure out what i can and then we will do that. i am stubborn, i really want to figure this out on my own with a little guidance....lol

ok, i did get the SL values and the bailout setup. i just had something screwed up, the setup video for the 8fg works for the bailout and SL modes. i really dont use SL though, but at least i got it setup right.

next hurdle, the tail gain on the switch. and i thought i had that figured out, but there is only one mix left, so i cant mix it like i did for the SL value.

[KSHeli]

You should be able to perform this on the gyro tab, assign to a switch you want and then to set each of the different three you actually must flip the switch to that position.
I made the change from DX8 to 14SGH and I'm still trying to get my head around it.

[LoveToFly1]

from what i can tell, no matter what you do to the "gyro" or "gov" (assigning a different switch or whatever) it is ALWAYS tied into the flight mode switch and throttle hold switch. to get the SL to work properly, i had to remove "gov" and replace with "aux5".....

[Sonixs]

Check your pm. Did a short howto for the Gyro.


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[Smackit]

Originally Posted by Sonixs

Check your pm. Did a short howto for the Gyro.


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I'm going to be encountering this same thing in about 3 weeks when I do my build. Could you please pm me too.

Thanks!

[crash at 42]

Had the same issues when I switched takes a bit to change and wrap your head around. It seems more complex but inevitably better.
Linkage menu for sw and channel assignments stay with it, its a better and easier when you figure it out
Use a dial for gains +10 -10 in flight mode once you lock in no need for 3 position sw. You can set the gain for the flight mode

[LoveToFly1]

That's just it. I do not want my gains like that. I want my gains on a 3 position switch. I want it like that, BC I want it like that, and no other reason. I shouldn't have to settle for not being able to use my 3 position switch after spending this much money. I am absolutely sick of this transmitter. I can not make it do what I want it to. Its going on the for sale forum tomorrow. I'll buy another dx9. 8 hours per model to program is ridiculous. Only to not be able to do what I want it to.

Anyone flying spectrum considering changing......DONT. it sucks and isn't worth it. Yes, it looks cool, feels cool, and is probably better quality, but if the damn thing doesn't do what you want it to, then its not worth a penny to me. At 8 hours a Heli, I won't make the fly in this weekend for sure.....


Done venting. Willing to accept help now. I'll pm you guys that contacted me today. Thanks.

Sorry.....I'm pissed....its late.....crap doesn't work.......I'm upset

[jharkin]

[EDIT - realized I forgot a step on thew switch select, updated]


Deep breaths LtF.... we will help you out!! What you want to do absolutely can be done. The 14 is a very powerful radio, but you have to learn to think the futaba mindset, which is different from Spectrum.

This is what you need to do (refer pg 159 of the manual). Im at the office and going from memory here so I might get some of the details wrong, will double check tonight at home.


1 Enter the gyro menu

2 You will see a list of gyros depending on how many you have defined and the first row probably looks like

GY RUD AVCS 100%

3 Use the scroll wheel to highlight the first row and hit RTN to enter that gyro menu

4 now you will see something like

COND NORM ON
Type GY AVCS
RATE 100%

5 Use the scroll wheel again and highlight COND. Hit RTN and you can now toggle it to SW. That just put you in switch select mode!

6 Now it looks like this. The #1 is an important concept to pay attention to. The menu lets you set like 5 or 6 different values for each gyro (this is the futaba way, give you multiple ways to do things so you get confused). You will have to scroll through the numbers and set the switch, position and value you want for each.

SW #1 ON --
Type GY AVCS
RATE 100%

7 Now its time to set you 3 values. They will correspond to #1, #2, #3.

8 for the first value:

• scroll to "--", hit RTN and now you get the hw select menu to pick the switch you want. Select you switch. Then highlight ON/OFF and select which position you want to turn this setting on (up/mid/dn). Back up.
• On the radio flip the switch to the position you want this setting to be (up, middle, down) and make sure ON appears
• Set the value you want to send as appropriate using the type AVCS and % fields. Useful here to have the 3sx on and hooked up to the PC so you can see that the values its reading match what you want.

9 Now go and Highlight #1, hit RTN and change it to #2. Then repeat step 8 for the next position of your switch.
10 Now go and Highlight #2, hit RTN and change it to #3. Then repeat step 8 for the next position of your switch.


OK, got all that? Another thing that is different in Futaba. How the gyro values are set.
There are those 3 options on the screen

Type GY
AVCS
RATE 100%

Type GY will confuse you, that is the futaba method. If you have that selected you use the AVCS/NOR toggle to select heading hold (pos) or normal mode (neg) output, and teh % is equal to the position signal shift. I.e.

• AVCS and 50% would send a servo position signal of +50 for heading hold mode.
• Changing AVCS to NOR and 50% would send a position signal of -50 for normal mode.

If you go back and change Type GY to Type STD you are now in standard mode, which might be closer to what you are used to in Spectrum/JR. Now the words AVCS will dissapear and you just have one rate field to enter a percentage from 0% to 100% Now the values work like this:

• Type STD and rate 100 would send a position signal of +100 for heading hold.
• Type STD and rate 75 would send a position signal of +50 for heading hold.
• Type STD and rate 25 would send a position signal of -50 for normal.
• Type STD and rate 0 would send a position signal of -100 for normal.

Note here that 50% is the midpoint sending a position value of zero (gyro off) and your % are doubled.

Again I recommend having the 3sx software running so you can see the output. The values might come out reversed, in which case you need to reverse your gyro channel in the servo reversing menu.




If you need more help shoot me a PM and Ill give you my ph#. I been using Futaba since the 90s and Ive walked a few guys through this setup.. I can even email my 14sg and 3sx programs for you to load and see an example of how its done.

Also I STRONGLY reccomend you get on amazon and order this e-book

http://www.amazon.com/Futaba-14SG-Pr.../dp/B00BMM9J7A

Its written for airplanes but will give a good explanation of how the menus are organized and the way Futaba does things that will make it much easier to figure things out on your own. One you get used to it the programming in this radio is extremely powerful with teh function based system that lets you put any function on any channel (not quite Jeti like but miles ahead of most radios). For me its made setup of my giant planks a breeze as I can ditch all the complex p-mixes used for servo matching on multi servo elevators, etc and just assign the same function to multiple channels and tweak endpoints. On the helis its helped my gasser setups a breeze because I can reassign throttle and GV1 gains to higher channels to bypass SBus and the 7 channel limitation of the 3sx, etc.

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

That's just it. I do not want my gains like that. I want my gains on a 3 position switch. I want it like that, BC I want it like that, and no other reason. I shouldn't have to settle for not being able to use my 3 position switch after spending this much money. I am absolutely sick of this transmitter. I can not make it do what I want it to. Its going on the for sale forum tomorrow. I'll buy another dx9. 8 hours per model to program is ridiculous. Only to not be able to do what I want it to.

Anyone flying spectrum considering changing......DONT. it sucks and isn't worth it. Yes, it looks cool, feels cool, and is probably better quality, but if the damn thing doesn't do what you want it to, then its not worth a penny to me. At 8 hours a Heli, I won't make the fly in this weekend for sure.....


Done venting. Willing to accept help now. I'll pm you guys that contacted me today. Thanks.

Sorry.....I'm pissed....its late.....crap doesn't work.......I'm upset

wow, i sounded like a little baby last night here lol

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by jharkin

[EDIT - realized I forgot a step on thew switch select, updated]


Deep breaths LtF.... we will help you out!! What you want to do absolutely can be done. The 14 is a very powerful radio, but you have to learn to think the futaba mindset, which is different from Spectrum.

This is what you need to do (refer pg 159 of the manual). Im at the office and going from memory here so I might get some of the details wrong, will double check tonight at home.


1 Enter the gyro menu

2 You will see a list of gyros depending on how many you have defined and the first row probably looks like

GY RUD AVCS 100%

3 Use the scroll wheel to highlight the first row and hit RTN to enter that gyro menu

4 now you will see something like

COND NORM ON
Type GY AVCS
RATE 100%

5 Use the scroll wheel again and highlight COND. Hit RTN and you can now toggle it to SW. That just put you in switch select mode!

6 Now it looks like this. The #1 is an important concept to pay attention to. The menu lets you set like 5 or 6 different values for each gyro (this is the futaba way, give you multiple ways to do things so you get confused). You will have to scroll through the numbers and set the switch, position and value you want for each.

SW #1 ON --
Type GY AVCS
RATE 100%

7 Now its time to set you 3 values. They will correspond to #1, #2, #3.

8 for the first value:

• scroll to "--", hit RTN and now you get the hw select menu to pick the switch you want. Select you switch. Then highlight ON/OFF and select which position you want to turn this setting on (up/mid/dn). Back up.
• On the radio flip the switch to the position you want this setting to be (up, middle, down) and make sure ON appears
• Set the value you want to send as appropriate using the type AVCS and % fields. Useful here to have the 3sx on and hooked up to the PC so you can see that the values its reading match what you want.

9 Now go and Highlight #1, hit RTN and change it to #2. Then repeat step 8 for the next position of your switch.
10 Now go and Highlight #2, hit RTN and change it to #3. Then repeat step 8 for the next position of your switch.


OK, got all that? Another thing that is different in Futaba. How the gyro values are set.
There are those 3 options on the screen

Type GY
AVCS
RATE 100%

Type GY will confuse you, that is the futaba method. If you have that selected you use the AVCS/NOR toggle to select heading hold (pos) or normal mode (neg) output, and teh % is equal to the position signal shift. I.e.

• AVCS and 50% would send a servo position signal of +50 for heading hold mode.
• Changing AVCS to NOR and 50% would send a position signal of -50 for normal mode.

If you go back and change Type GY to Type STD you are now in standard mode, which might be closer to what you are used to in Spectrum/JR. Now the words AVCS will dissapear and you just have one rate field to enter a percentage from 0% to 100% Now the values work like this:

• Type STD and rate 100 would send a position signal of +100 for heading hold.
• Type STD and rate 75 would send a position signal of +50 for heading hold.
• Type STD and rate 25 would send a position signal of -50 for normal.
• Type STD and rate 0 would send a position signal of -100 for normal.

Note here that 50% is the midpoint sending a position value of zero (gyro off) and your % are doubled.

Again I recommend having the 3sx software running so you can see the output. The values might come out reversed, in which case you need to reverse your gyro channel in the servo reversing menu.




If you need more help shoot me a PM and Ill give you my ph#. I been using Futaba since the 90s and Ive walked a few guys through this setup.. I can even email my 14sg and 3sx programs for you to load and see an example of how its done.

Also I STRONGLY reccomend you get on amazon and order this e-book

Amazon.com: Futaba 14SG - Programming for Fixed Wing Aircraft eBook: Malcolm Holt: Kindle Store

Its written for airplanes but will give a good explanation of how the menus are organized and the way Futaba does things that will make it much easier to figure things out on your own. One you get used to it the programming in this radio is extremely powerful with teh function based system that lets you put any function on any channel (not quite Jeti like but miles ahead of most radios). For me its made setup of my giant planks a breeze as I can ditch all the complex p-mixes used for servo matching on multi servo elevators, etc and just assign the same function to multiple channels and tweak endpoints. On the helis its helped my gasser setups a breeze because I can reassign throttle and GV1 gains to higher channels to bypass SBus and the 7 channel limitation of the 3sx, etc.

this does help very much. thank you. i am going to compile a word document with the info that you guys have given me in several different places.

Thank you for your help sir, that does make perfect sense.

see, my issue with my x3 right now is that i have my tail gain right in normal, iu1, and iu2 (even though thats not how i wanted to do it) but when i go into hold, it goes into rate mode (-30%). and i cannot figure out how to get it to stop doing that. but with the info above, i will make it work.

i am PM'ing you. i need to get my helis programmed before saturday for the fly in. i also have my goblin gasser on the bench ready to program as we, totally built, just need programming to get it in the air. it will be more complicated bc i am using SBus AND the additional channels on the RX for my GV1.

thanks man.

[KSHeli]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

this does help very much. thank you. i am going to compile a word document with the info that you guys have given me in several different places.

Thank you for your help sir, that does make perfect sense.

see, my issue with my x3 right now is that i have my tail gain right in normal, iu1, and iu2 (even though thats not how i wanted to do it) but when i go into hold, it goes into rate mode (-30%). and i cannot figure out how to get it to stop doing that. but with the info above, i will make it work.

i am PM'ing you. i need to get my helis programmed before saturday for the fly in. i also have my goblin gasser on the bench ready to program as we, totally built, just need programming to get it in the air. it will be more complicated bc i am using SBus AND the additional channels on the RX for my GV1.

thanks man.

Hey LTF, If I'm remembering right there is a separate place in the 14SG menus for setting the TH gyro gain, I'm still new just and found it just looking through the different programming menus.
Also make a general heli in the 14SG, and then use that as a starting point so you don't have to go through all of the setup sequence for each additional heli you add, you can just make a copy as a starting point.

[LoveToFly1]

Originally Posted by KSHeli

Also make a general heli in the 14SG, and then use that as a starting point so you don't have to go through all of the setup sequence for each additional heli you add, you can just make a copy as a starting point.

CHA CHING!!!! great idea! cant believe i didnt think of this...lol

i am running BD units, vbar units, and Ikon units, so they may not be exact copies, but they will be dang close. at least have hold configured, trims disabled, and throttle curves correct....

[KSHeli]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

CHA CHING!!!! great idea! cant believe i didnt think of this...lol

i am running BD units, vbar units, and Ikon units, so they may not be exact copies, but they will be dang close. at least have hold configured, trims disabled, and throttle curves correct....

You got it Mike, yah just get all of the standard heli programming done up to the point where you start setting the individual heli up, what a life saver. I had help from Clint with CC during the Muncie electric FF (NEFFE), AJ Jaffe at IRCHA. There is one setting in there that Clint changed and AJ checked that is a default on the 14SG, sorry I can't remember what it is but if I'm remembering correctly its EXPO preprogrammed on the throttle or pitch. Someone that has done more programming of the 14SG can chime in or you may have already found it.

[LoveToFly1]

maybe turning the knobs off for pitch and throttle curve.....that is the fist thing i did.

[LoveToFly1]

thank goodness the 3 position switch worked! thank you soo much!

[KSHeli]

Originally Posted by LoveToFly1

maybe turning the knobs off for pitch and throttle curve.....that is the fist thing i did.

That's probably it. Just couldn't remember what for sure.
It gets a lot easier once you learn the Futuba terminology and get through all of the programming once, you may forget something, but you'll remember once you see it in the programming menus. It's like oh sh*t I forgot to do that. LOL

[LoveToFly1]

Yes, I programmed one last night in just a few hours instead of 2 evenings. The 3 position switch was what was killing me.

I setup a Vbar last night. Bank switching is different. I have to use banks 0,1,2 instead of 1,2,3 now. I couldn't figure out how to make that work any differently. But that's fine, BC I have 3 banks now.