Whooot! 800 Triabolo on order.

[wblombard]

Is Jeti going to help you out atleast with some of the damage? Thats crazy! I will burn that TX....to be very honest I have felt a jet DS16 and damn it was nice but Im sorry after this there no way I will consider one...looks like If i ever had to upgrade it will be a 18mz...

Hope you get it sorted.

[Esprit Model]

We had discussion with Jeti and few of our pilots, what you are describing is next to impossible. There was NOT a single incident like yours and I we have thousand of radios being used every single day.

There has to be some explanation, as soon as we get radio back with the receiver and your program we will load it on one of our helis and try to recreate the problem, as simple as that.

Zb/Jeti USA

[Luvmyhelis]

Guys, what I am experiencing is a whole different bag of worms than anyone ever had with their Jeti 16s. Still and always will be my drool over Tx of choice. Don't let my woes here influence anything concerning those. Especially towards Esprit which has been fantastic so far and I have zero beef with their company. Jeti is a stand up company, and I have no doubt something will emerge with experienced guys pouring over the issue.

Impossible though what is happening? I had three experienced pilots watch as I powered up the heli and the swash elev action reversed itself right in front of everyone. Club pres told me to my face he had never seen anything like this before either. He and the other two guys are the ones who took the carnage pics btw.

I am done talking about this. So please don't either. Already water under the bridge and my previous whining wont change a thing. I want to really understand what the H really happened. And am willing to look at the possibilities, including my own. Which is why I sat up again half the night going over the tx again, and again, and again...and again....

I am just baffled, how one second the heli is moving the swash one direction. Un power it and fly another, then power it back up and the servo action is now backwards? This, needs to be understood. Especially by myself.

Come monday, I will box up the tx and let them have it. Maybe along with my Sk720.

Thinking of flying my remaining 600 frankenheli with the older Dx7 isn't thrilling me in the least........

[MadMatt986]

That is really bad luck. I know you have looked into it but since it it happening with two transmitters I woulds suspect vibrations... but then the same thing happened on different heli's. Sorry, thinking out loud here...

Did you set up each heli separately from scratch in the TX or copy a base configuration? I am thinking something along the lines that the combinations of TX servo revers settings and the FBL servo revers setting is causing the servo to move in the right direction when moving the stick but the FBL unit is correcting in the wrong direct? that would only show up when the skids leave the ground. I had my tail configured like this once but caught it when I checked the giro reaction which is easy to do. IIRC the easies way to check this is to hold the heli and with the motor disconected but everything else on. when you tilt the heli in all directions the swash should stay approximately level with the ground.

I apologize if you have already ruled that out. I'm just tryin' to help.

Keep your head up!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by MadMatt986

That is really bad luck. I know you have looked into it but since it it happening with two transmitters I woulds suspect vibrations... but then the same thing happened on different heli's. Sorry, thinking out loud here...

Did you set up each heli separately from scratch in the TX or copy a base configuration? I am thinking something along the lines that the combinations of TX servo revers settings and the FBL servo revers setting is causing the servo to move in the right direction when moving the stick but the FBL unit is correcting in the wrong direct? that would only show up when the skids leave the ground. I had my tail configured like this once but caught it when I checked the giro reaction which is easy to do. IIRC the easies way to check this is to hold the heli and with the motor disconected but everything else on. when you tilt the heli in all directions the swash should stay approximately level with the ground.

I apologize if you have already ruled that out. I'm just tryin' to help.

Keep your head up!

Much appreciated! And the thought process is valid. I did hold the heli up and move it around to see which way the swash was correcting after the flight pack was engaged. Both in regular bank 1 and also with SL engaged. I am so totally stumped here. I did setup each heli independently. But went back and compared the settings. Nearly identical across the board. The setup process always starts with heli simple and just expands from there in the Tx programming. So it is no surprise the results and nearly identical. In heli #2 position, I configured my SC switch for banking differently as I learned a better method of bypassing the three way that was defective. Basically just moving my bail out toggle to the other side of the Tx. In the end I spent three full days and half the nights on all of this. It is off today headed back to Esprit into much better hands and probably minds than my own.

The absolute worst thing that could happen is they say they cannot replicate the issue. Which will totally leave me out in the cold here. Where do you go then from there?

Tell ya what. After flying all day yesterday with my old Dx7, there was a real good reason that Tx ended up gathering dust in my closet all these years. Compared to the Jeti, OMG that tx is horrid. Had some of the best flights of my life, but just hated the product I was holding. By the end of the day I realized no matter what, that I simply have to work out this issue and fly with a Jeti somehow some way. Their Tx's are really that good.

[trillian]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

Tell ya what. After flying all day yesterday with my old Dx7, there was a real good reason that Tx ended up gathering dust in my closet all these years. Compared to the Jeti, OMG that tx is horrid.

Guess what TX I'm still using! I dare not try a Jeti as I'm still happy with my DX7, I don't want to start wanting something else :-o

[snbartley]

Randy. Here is an idea. Have esprit credit you and upgrade to the DS-16. If it is a DS-14 issue then problem solved. As stated there are many of us out there with the 16 and no issues at all. And hey it's just money so why not. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by snbartley

Randy. Here is an idea. Have esprit credit you and upgrade to the DS-16. If it is a DS-14 issue then problem solved. As stated there are many of us out there with the 16 and no issues at all. And hey it's just money so why not. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you a mind reader, or what?
I discussed this today with one of the guys there, and they are sending a 16 my way as I ship the Ds-14 the other way, package sent btw. Cost me, but regardless of what is being said about the 14 being real similar. No one is having issues with the 16. So, done deal. Time to move forward. I did fight the strong urge to upgrade into the carbon fibre version.
But just can't justify the extra cost along with rebuilding my fleet on top of it. Plus I got hit with some serious medical bills, and really need my computer looked at now also.

By next year, this all will have passed and we will be chatting about something totally different.

I am really looking forward to the new RcTek tail showing up. Time to fly again!

[Luvmyhelis]

Well, the new Ds-16 did the same thing. The heli in pos 1 stayed static but two and three changed elev servo directions after programming in the last one underneath. This time I caught it on the bench, and played with all the helis for a day afterwords, seeing no further servo changes. So, after resetting the Sk720 elev servo functions on two of the four helis programmed into the tx. The same positions in the Tx the other servo reversals happened. No problem since then. I did talk to Danny at Esprit about all this stuff. Anyhoo. Flew the Tri today after a very long absence, but had to change out the Sk 720 Black. Robbed it off my 600. I think the early chicken dance must have damaged it?
Crap.

Still, in spite of 35mph gusty winds tearing things up today, the other two guys I fly with bagged it after having their helis blown off the field. I did get in a great flight, the heli flew fantastic through a number of figure 8s. Nice and quiet, the 95mm Rjx blades held up well on the RcTek tri tail. Then, a terrible rattle and the upper secondary shaft support bearing let go, odd after so few flights?
The auto down after the bearing failure was somewhat adrenaline filled! Winds buffeting up and down the heli up to 20ft at a time, robbing my head momentum. The cheapo Align skids saved my goose! They flexed out flat when the heli hit somewhat hard in the weeds and bounced right back into shape as a gust took the heli down wind fast. Good thing I listened to the little voice in my head today, instead of fitting the new aluminum struts back in place.

Both plastic main gears are shredded, all three bearings in the secondary shaft need replacement along with the upper one way support bearing. Plus the pinion ate through the upper support plate when the bearing disintegrated. The aluminum one way hub when the secondary shaft raised up tore into the motor support plate, but with some filing and work I cleaned it up.
I still call this a win! The heli didn't flip over when it landed and eat the blades and head. And the Jeti ran well.
The new Kde 455 ran a little too hot for my liking, maybe a reduction to 12s is in order. No big deal.

Wonder if Chuck is going to Ircha or staying around to ship orders this next week?

[thefrog]

Perhaps it's an Rx issue - power source, electrical interference or just plain failure of the Rx(s).

[Mercuriell]

Really frustrating for you! Can't be the TX - have you any interference locally ? TV towers, radar etc etc

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Mercuriell

Really frustrating for you! Can't be the TX - have you any interference locally ? TV towers, radar etc etc

Nope. I am out in the county. The tx was less than 3ft from the helis. No biggie now. Once the servos reverse in the tx. I took pics of the Skookum servo travel menu, it hasn't changed. So it is def in the tx. But once the change takes place in the helis in pos 2 and 3 in the tx in order of models. It doesn't happen again. Before I changed it in the Tx. Which is where I got my problems, as the tx changed them back at the field. Now I left the tx alone and changed it in the SK menu. Taking screen shots to verify where the changes are taking place. Once the change has happened, it seems to be solid after this. I flew all day yesterday and had a stellar time at our club meet. Love this Tx btw. We met both sat and sun. But my Tri was already down early sat before the guys showed, so none were able to see it in flight. I still have yet to show it off?

Any other helis that get installed, I will just double check every model before getting them airborne again. This time when the servos reversed, it happened in two models right on the bench in front of me just before heading out the door to go fly at a meet. Right after I had programmed in the Triabolo. The Tri, in pos #4 stayed ok. The template in pos 1 stayed ok. Only the helis in pos 2 and 3 seem to get messed with? So it isn't interference. Danny at Esprit thinks it is something unique in my settings?

The frustrating thing is that I am not a Jeti expert, since it is a new system to me I am still in the learning curve. But there really isn't much outside heli simple to mess up? Which is where all my helis are setup from on the original template Danny had me setup. I just copy, rename, then bind. I hadn't thought about the rx's as the source? Kinda ruled that out as it happened with three separate ones? The only consistent thing was in the position or order in the Tx, which Danny thinks is pure coincidence.

Well back to the Tri.

Parts ordered from Chuck at Peak. I can't wait to get this big guy inverted, mow the lawn, and stretch its legs.

[thefrog]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

The frustrating thing is that I am not a Jeti expert, since it is a new system to me I am still in the learning curve. But there really isn't much outside heli simple to mess up? Which is where all my helis are setup from on the original template Danny had me setup. I just copy, rename, then bind. I hadn't thought about the rx's as the source? Kinda ruled that out as it happened with three separate ones? The only consistent thing was in the position or order in the Tx, which Danny thinks is pure coincidence.

Protocol issue between Jeti and Skookum? How does it connect, single input like Futaba or plugs like Spektrum/JR?

I know this is O/T but maybe there are angles being missed. The SK has final say in the servo movement, if the signal it gets from the Jeti isn't clear it could output something different.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by thefrog

Protocol issue between Jeti and Skookum? How does it connect, single input like Futaba or plugs like Spektrum/JR?

I know this is O/T but maybe there are angles being missed. The SK has final say in the servo movement, if the signal it gets from the Jeti isn't clear it could output something different.

Single wire input. Pretty simple. Danny at Esprit and I went over the Rx/Tx setting there in detail.
Other guys using the Jeti 16ch tx's haven't had these issues. So we concluded it is something unique in either the way I am programming or in one of my settings that may be unique? The Tx screen shots all show regular settings in each area however? Nuff said. Since I caught it this last week on the bench and rectified it using the Skookum this time. (reversing channels in the Sk instead of the Jeti). It hasn't recurred. So if the issue never comes up again after this. I consider it no longer my problem. But, will be looking forever at anyone else who may run into this.

In the words of one expert I was emailing. The Jeti tells the Skookum what it wants the Skookum to do. It tells the servos. Having the elevator servos reverse is the TX. Having a single servo reverse is the Skookum. So having two separate helis reverse servo elev function that were preset in the Skookum and verified later it didn't change. Came down again to the tx signal. And, maybe me in one odd setting I prefer such as even a random expo #? OR? The order in which it was input? We just don't know guys. All I can tell anyone is in each case the helis stayed correct until I added in the last one. Then, the two above it changed elev swash direction out of the Tx. How and why? Good questions! I have done little else over the last 3 weeks than analyze this. I give up.

What I can say, is I love my Tx now. Going back to the 7, after the 8, and going through two more 14s. Really messed me up now that I have yet another Tx with a different feel. I lost five sets of batts also that puffed during using my 7 again. For some reason I couldn't hear the timer go off or forgot to toggle the timer at takeoff. Puffed my year old batts. They still read ok in cell resistance. But man, they look like water balloons now if I fly hard. I couldn't get one set out of my Gob 800 this weekend. They puffed up so bad it was impossible to get them out until they calmed down. I can only blame myself this time.

But on the new tx I setup the sticks kinda stiff for 3d work. Angled the gymbals also. So flying is a whole new feel now.

[Luvmyhelis]

Well, lets let the Jeti issue alone for a while. I flew the small fleet yesterday again, in huge winds I might add. The Tx did just fine through another six packs. Another hard core pilot stayed out at the field and we flew between nasty fronts raging through after two of our other pilots bailed. It was tough at times and we didn't think it was all that bad? After all, we were flying!
When we left we found out the storm had knocked trees down all over the place. Hitting some spots close to us with 65mph winds and wiping out an entire mobile home park. Pretty crazy day.

New parts are in, (thanks Chuck!) and the Tri should be back in flying shape by this weekend if the fbl controller isn't damaged. Kinda jacked right now.

[Luvmyhelis]

Well, long story since I haven't posted here in this thread for a while. The Tri flew great all month long after I had Helihaven (Troy) fab up some new tri head pins for me. The pins have been out of stock for most the summer at Peak, even though I have two sets on order. So I had to have a set custom machined. Wow what a beautiful flying heli! I tried it on both 6s, thanks to Danny at Esprit for turning me on to that trick. And it flew quite well there, however cyclic management is a must when doing 3d work. The longer flight times were a bonus but you really have to work at flying the heli in this format. Bob's new RcTek tri rotor tail performs so well I couldn't hear my tail at all anymore! Virtually zero vibes also.

So I went back to my 14s setup later and poof. My very first Yge esc failure ever.

Happened when I was inverted just 20ft up. I was lucky to get her back down without any severe damage other than the fire. I think this was due to buying a used Yge 160 and I didn't know for sure what its track record was? Plus I was trying to tailor my timing/pwm figures to pull some heat out of the hot running KDE gen 3 455kv motor. The only real damage was the loss of the Yge 160, thank god I run a separate Scott Gray reactor for my bec off a separate flight pack! Since the fire shorted the batts and also fried a tab in one of the battery's at the time. So I had zero pack power when I sat it down.

The frame came out clean after scouring it in the sink. As did all the rest. I did loose the skids and again three new head pins. Canopy is also charred, but I think I will save it this winter. In the meantime I have spares.

So now I have a Kontronic 800-40 on its way, maybe much better suited to the actual gear range I need at 14s over the monster amp pulling Kde 455. The motor cleaned up nice after the fire however and I am planning on using it in my Gob 800 later. I also scoured all the electronics and Tri parts, they all look pretty good.

I had one guy come after me for not running a Kontronic 200a esc on this. But I watched a Gob 700 fall from the sky just last week that was running one. For $800 I am not sold yet.

I have a question guys? Would or should I try the YGE 320 on this, they have one on sale at HD for $599. Or maybe try the Yep 180a verson at HK and go cheap here? Kinda broke after my nightmarish summer.

But hey, I am flying well this year inspite all of it.

[MadMatt986]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune and I am glad the damage is not that bad. The pictures look horrendous.

Electrnoics can fail for a vast number of reasons and no manufacture is immune. YGE have a good reputation and (at least here in Germany) are put at the same general level as Kontronik so you really cant go wrong with either.

You can salvage that canopy... use your backup to make a negative mold of the window area and then make a real single layer carbon fiber window. Cut out the glass fiber and mount it in the position of the original. Now that would be cool! :-)

[smsodhi]

Ouch!!!! Makes my flame up look pretty minor in comparison.

Consider this (using your examples):

YGE 320 $599 No BEC No data logging, non modular ie BlueTooth capability etc
Kosmik 200 $800 Has a BEC has data logging, modular design.

Kosmik 160 would be less $ with all the above benefits, and I have not had problems with it...so far

So don't think in terms of cost of ESC on its own add the other benefits in as well. Also the wiring is less "messy" with less connectors to fail. VERY important consideration.

YEP..well apart from the ethical issues that always arise when talking about YEP'S, I put one in my 550SX while waiting for a jive pro to be released. So far I am impressed with it. If used with an external GOV would be very good if it is able to perform as advertised. I note the lack of heat sink on the 180, this would need to be addressed. Easily done by removing the shrink wrap around the FETS and attaching a heat sink with arctic silver and CA to the FETS,

(EDIT: I just noticed all the little connectors from the FETS, I don't think you could attach a heat sink to the FETS directly.)

I used a hobbywing 120 governed with a Vbar a few years back, and loved it on the Diabolo when I was running a P700 on 12S

[MadMatt986]

BTW... This is an awesome post with the internal pictures of different ESC's and some very technical analysis.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=443322

One of the things that makes me very partial to Kontronik is how mechanically solid it is build. It is truly solid state with no wires routed internal that can short out due to the insulation wearing through.

[xioxia]

Kontronik 200 or Yge 320. Both are great esc!

Or maybe try the Yep 180a verson at HK and go cheap here?

If you choose this route... good luck