Best Auto Leveling / Bailout FBL System (Skookum, HeliCommand, Ikon / MSH Brain, etc)

[Cailid]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

HC3SX

+ = proven reliability on Rescue with pitch

I think for people that allways need the newest stuff and want to play the testing role a SKOOKUM with GPS might be a nice plaything.
In 2 years i will look into it´s threads.

While the GPS unit is new, the Skookum FBL system has been around for years. The sk720 with bailout has been around longer than the hc3sx and has proven itself.

[RogerRabit]

I did not now that the 720 has a bailout.

I thought it only has a leveling feature without pitch.

Bailout will be available with the GPS earliest?

[Luvmyhelis]

Good thread guys!

I agree totally with Mkovalkson. Both work.
If you cannot build your heli to be a "normal" factory target vibe level. Either due to the I don't care, or lack of skill. Or as mentioned a model just can't be raised to this level. Or whatever, get the Hc system. I know beyond doubt it works as I personally know pilots running this. Like I said earlier though, I don't want my bailout doing an uncommanded anything. Especially during my training exorcises. Having it shoot up in the air while practicing for me is unacceptable. And in 4 years and roughly 5000 flights I haven't ever had the Sk720 bailout fail me. Nor hit the ground while using it. EVER.

By all reports the HC system would work admirably here also. But after using the Skookum proactive gov, no onboard reactive esc gov is remotely as good. So to me an amazing gov has me spoiled now. And by the HC not having it?

And obtaining the Sk720 now is problematic at best, lets be honest here. Since they are out of production. Since you have to ask when buying used, why and what could be wrong? What has this been through?

So, now we are choosing between the HC and newer Black. No matter what, both will work. But the Black will be unarguably superior. And priced relatively the same.

Gps is a whole new ballgame. And far from what I would call a simple bailout system.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

I did not now that the 720 has a bailout.

I thought it only has a leveling feature without pitch.

Bailout will be available with the GPS earliest?

LOL!

Helicommand is amazing

Is that better Roger?

FWIW I've enjoyed my "Auto-Level" and it has saved me from completely losing a heli and numerous other crashes.

If I had an HC unit I would configure it to work in a similar way and allow me collective control based on my experiences to date. That would include bringing it back from a great distance where I didn't want it to keep climbing and climbing, but I did want it to keep the heli level. I also use it occassionally with a camera onboard.

That is not to say that using it in "Captain Rescue" mode is not a very useful feature.

As far as the upcoming SK-720 Black Edition, I'm not expecting much of an issue with its release because it is mostly running a faster CPU and using better input devices ( gyros), but the code is consolidated between the SK-540, SK-720 and SK-720 Black Edition, so that really isn't as much of a question mark. It should hit the ground running well.

The SK-GPS is completely in no-man's land until I have mine in my hands and I see it working properly. I volunteered to try out a 1.0.0.0 product that I fully expect will NOT be perfect. I am expecting that once I get things working that it will function in a way that is useful to me.

The GPS's are now just arriving and I expect mine will arrive tomorrow. I fully expect things may be "interesting" for a while. When I get mine working, I'll be happy to share my results.

[RogerRabit]

There is a general misunderstanding about the HC3SX in all the discussions.

The HC3SX has 3 bailout functions, in conjunction with a modern TX with mixers another.

1) For Beginners a automatic autolevel with user overridable stickcontrol can be used by putting a constant positive Value on the transmitted Rescue channel.
That way you can set up the heli any way in behaivior between a coax stability and a normal cp system.
If you let go the cyclic sticks the heli is level and you steer the tail and pitch.
You can fly it (even with a 100% leveling) with overriding with the cyclic sticks towards you.

2) If you put the 100% positive on a push button on your TX you have the normal leveling like in the skookum.
There is no influence on pitch.

3) If you put a negative value on the Rescue Channel from the TX the heli will level immedeate and put that much pitch in the correct direction as you have in your rescue channel.
Fastest action will be on a 140% - it is amazing quick, because the system is steering in cyclic and pitch paralell. It will save a knife edge near the bottom unbelievable quick. You would not have any chance to steer pitch there after a leveling.

4) If you click in the PC software "turn to normal" the system will rescue the heli towards the quicker save either inverted or normal and in case of inverted will flip it to normal without losing height.

If you use mode 3 and have the rescue on a pushbutton (spring released) as requested by HC Manual, to level the heli it is just a short push on the switch.
It will gain a little height but on just a "blip" it will be half a meter or so, not more.

[Triple-D TJ]

I bought a HC3SX when I crashed A LOT!!! Initially I was thinking it would save me tons of cash, but It sat shelved for 8 Months while I continued to fly with MBX (And Crashed). It wasn’t until last November when I finally mounted it on the E-Whip and flew it. With some tweaking, HC flies flawless and may even sell other units to outfit HC throughout the fleet (10 Helicopters In all).

It’s funny though having rescue mode, I never actually set it up.. During that 8 Months while the HC sat on the shelf, I simply put time in on the sim, burned gallons of nitro and got better. Sure a rescue switch is great, but if you don’t flip it in time, what good does it really do.

I’ve never flown with anything SK, so I can’t share pros or cons about it.

[destinbeachman]

I ocassionaly see posts about being able to hit the switch quick enough on the HC3SX.I don't understand this. You can hit the throttle hold, right? Same thing.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by destinbeachman

I ocassionaly see posts about being able to hit the switch quick enough on the HC3SX.I don't understand this. You can hit the throttle hold, right? Same thing.

Yup, same thing.

That is why the vast majority of my crashes were at full headspeed when I dumbthumbed something and it was over before I reacted.

My TDR was not only at full headspeed, but it was carrying some serious speed when I cratered it last Summer.

[SMOKEMASTER60]

Originally Posted by Triple-D TJ

[COLOR=black]With some tweaking, HC flies flawless and may even sell other units to outfit HC throughout the fleet (10 Helicopters In all).

That is how it goes. Once you fly with a HC3SX, you will not want anything else on your helis. I converted my fleet all to HC3SX as well and couldn't be happier

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by RogerRabit

There is a general misunderstanding about the HC3SX in all the discussions.

The HC3SX has 3 bailout functions, in conjunction with a modern TX with mixers another.

1) For Beginners a automatic autolevel with user overridable stickcontrol can be used by putting a constant positive Value on the transmitted Rescue channel.
That way you can set up the heli any way in behaivior between a coax stability and a normal cp system.
If you let go the cyclic sticks the heli is level and you steer the tail and pitch.
You can fly it (even with a 100% leveling) with overriding with the cyclic sticks towards you.

2) If you put the 100% positive on a push button on your TX you have the normal leveling like in the skookum.
There is no influence on pitch.

3) If you put a negative value on the Rescue Channel from the TX the heli will level immedeate and put that much pitch in the correct direction as you have in your rescue channel.
Fastest action will be on a 140% - it is amazing quick, because the system is steering in cyclic and pitch paralell. It will save a knife edge near the bottom unbelievable quick. You would not have any chance to steer pitch there after a leveling.

4) If you click in the PC software "turn to normal" the system will rescue the heli towards the quicker save either inverted or normal and in case of inverted will flip it to normal without losing height.

If you use mode 3 and have the rescue on a pushbutton (spring released) as requested by HC Manual, to level the heli it is just a short push on the switch.
It will gain a little height but on just a "blip" it will be half a meter or so, not more.

Roger, Great Post !!!!

And fortunately I will soon have a full featured transmitter with momentary switches that I look forward to taking advantage of.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by SMOKEMASTER60

That is how it goes. Once you fly with a HC3SX, you will not want anything else on your helis. I converted my fleet all to HC3SX as well and couldn't be happier

It makes a lot of sense to standardize and only have one flybarless system that you are completely comfortable with so that you know that your switches always work the same way on your Transmitter.

That's one reason I run the same FBL controllers across the board.

If I had one heli that only had TH, and another that had TH and Gear ( self-level) and another that had TH, Gear and a momentary switch, I wouldn't know what to hit when all hell broke loose!

[Triple-D TJ]

I'm sure the day will come when I wished that bailout was setup..

The one thing I hope HC does have a future plan for is an internal gov for nitro set ups. That would be the cats pajamas!

[destinbeachman]

I want HC to incorporate a solid governor into their units as well. I have to believe it is coming.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by destinbeachman

I want HC to incorporate a solid governor into their units as well. I have to believe it is coming.

That would be a safe bet, since many of their competitors have this feature.

I think we can be sure that all the top FBL manufacturers will continue to improve their products. We will continue to see better gyros and faster CPU's with more advanced features.

Having a number of viable FBL controllers on the market is a good thing. It means more competition and innovation.

You don't want everyone to use Helicommand and I don't want everyone to use Skookum. We want a lot of viable products and competition to keep innovations coming.

You can probably bet that 5 years from now the GPS features that are cutting edge today are commonplace and less expensive. The hard deck may even be down to a few feet off the ground.

We are all on the same side here.

[destinbeachman]

A working hard deck a few feet off the ground that could be turned off easily would be the ideal for me.

[Jeff_Barrett]

Originally Posted by ShaneXman

It would be nice if it was a "smart" system, and could tell if I've gone below a certain "floor",

I sincerely look forward to hearing about your testing, and would love to see some videos / demonstrations if at all possible.

We'll try to get some footage this weekend ... looks like the weather is going to be nice on Saturday. I have the new system installed and calibrated ... I just need to retweak all my gains (I completely redid the mechanical setup) and give it a shot.

I'll be testing the Hard Deck and Soft Deck features.

8m is the lowest you can set the deck.

[NewR]

Originally Posted by Jeff_Barrett

I'll be testing the Hard Deck and Soft Deck features.

That will be awesome! These are the two features that I am most interested in!

[Jeff_Barrett]

If weather cooperates, I'll post the video here and in the Skookum forums.

I've been solving a mystery vibration that appeared out of nowhere on my Atom 500, which I'm using as the test bed for the flights. I thanks to vibration logging, I think I've got the issue isolated ... it's in the RPM range of the motor itself, but I've removed the motor and replaced the bearings, then spun it up in my hands with no oscillation ...

... after looking everything over, I realized it had to do with the gear mesh between the pinion and the main gear. I may have slightly tweaked the output portion of my motor shaft, because as I turn the main gear, the mesh gets tighter on one side. I loosened the mesh and it's much better. I'm going to try replacing the motor shaft / can now ... that will finally put the nail in the coffin .... main gear or motor shaft.

[destinbeachman]

They have to get the deck lower than 25 feet. That's a no-go for me.

[NewR]

Originally Posted by destinbeachman

They have to get the deck lower than 25 feet. That's a no-go for me.

Well, You can turn it off and go as low as your heart desires