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Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please |
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06-30-2015, 06:34 AM | #21 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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I charge the night before for my first set of flights, I also take a generator with me to the field and recharge for 2 or 3 more flights per battery set after flying but I let the batteries cool down first....
In my experience you do far far more damage to batteries over discharging them than you do leaving them fully charged for a few days....so I always like to land when its around 3.75 per cell.... |
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06-30-2015, 06:40 AM | #22 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Usually the night before, after work, lets say abt 10pm. I use to go flying early morning, 6-7 am on my off day, considering the temperature in here!
If I would have the possibility to field charge, I would definitely do it.
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06-30-2015, 06:45 AM | #23 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Having multiple chargers help... I charge while eating breakfast before going out to the field:
Bigger chargers for the 6S packs: Smaller chargers for the 4S (low headspeed flying on the X3) and the 2S Rx pack:
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XLP Specter NME | Oxy 5 550, 5 HF 560, 5 HF 610 | Compass Chronos, 7HVU, 550U, Atom | Gaui X3 |
06-30-2015, 08:15 AM | #24 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chilliwack, British Columbia
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I charge the night before, and bring my generator to the field
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06-30-2015, 08:24 AM | #25 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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I do all my charging at the field.
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06-30-2015, 09:35 AM | #26 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Never store batteries lipo batteries empty. Store them at least 3.75 per cell. If you discharge them lower than 3.1 almost all Chargers will not even read the cell.
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Alees Rush 700 x3, Alees Rush 750, XLPower 520, NX4, 250 quad racers, Tesla Power servos, Force batteries |
06-30-2015, 11:55 AM | #27 (permalink) |
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Night before mostly. I've often left them charged for multiple days.
Rick
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06-30-2015, 12:36 PM | #28 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Morning of, but I also parallel charge with multiple chargers. I can generally charge up enough batteries for an afternoon of flying in about 20-30 minutes. If I think I'll need more than that, I have a deep cycle battery I'll bring to charge out at the field. The deep cycle is also good for more quickly storage discharging packs at the field with the regenerative mode so long as I've used some of the capacity of the battery for charging beforehand.
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Gaui X5F 6S (VBar), Lynx 450X-L 6S (Ikon), Lynx 300X-L 4S (Ikon), Blade 180CFX 3S (Ikon) Lumenier QAV400 4S (Vector), Lumenier QAV250 3S (Naze32/CleanFlight), CYE Stingray 500 4S (TG Multi) AMA Member, HCAM Member Last edited by Nelsonisms; 06-30-2015 at 02:25 PM.. Reason: deep cycle....not deep cyclic...hehe |
06-30-2015, 01:01 PM | #29 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Time for the Battery University link again: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
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06-30-2015, 01:08 PM | #30 (permalink) |
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I have Glacier packs that are over two years old and they still pack plenty of punch, at least for my aggressive sport flying. They're also still rock hard. I haven't taken super good care of them, often leaving them charged for a couple of weeks when the weather wasn't cooperating, or leaving them a little low for even longer.
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06-30-2015, 02:05 PM | #31 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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07-01-2015, 07:32 AM | #32 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Seattle, WA, USA
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The ideal setup is to have a large enough vehicle where you can permanently leave 2 or 3 deep cycle batteries along with one or two chargers so you can charge and regenerative discharge at the field, with the goal of:
1) Leaving the LiPo's at full charge the least amount of time possible. 2) Be able to readily charge or regenerative discharge LiPo's to storage charge voltage at the end of flying day. 3) Save money by only needing fewer LiPo's since you have the ability to readily fast charge at the field. Realistically, not all of us have large vehicles to exclusively dedicate to the hobby. Many of us don't have the room to permanently leave large deep cycle batteries, and I am guessing a fair amount of us may have trouble taking those large and heavy deep cycle batteries in and out of the car without needing to follow that up with ibuprofen. A generator works for many people, but is not for everyone. For instance, my field does not allow gasoline operated generators (well, it's really the county that does not allow us to use them). Also, there is no way my wife would allow me to transport a generator in the car. She would complain that the car would smell like gasoline. Harbormaster is right. Battery University is probably the best online resource to learn about batteries. Here are some useful charts from Battery university. I believe we are all in agreement that storing the LiPo's fully charged negatively impact overall health and longevity of the LiPo's. This chart shows how much you cut down on the number of useful cycles when you store Lithium-Ion batteries at different states of charge. According to the chart you would still get over 100 cycles if you store the packs fully charged. What is not apparent from the chart is that the decrease in number of cycles is due to (1) increase in IR, and (2) decrease in capacity, so I would expect decreased flight times and decreased maximum sustainable discharged rate. This may not be an issue for sports and mild 3D pilots, but may be an issue for hard 3D and speed pilots. This next chart puts it into perspective for me. The two main variables that we can control that affect the battery health are (1) state of charge at which the batteries are stored, and (2) the temperatures at which the packs are stored. So if you have a fully charged pack that you may not be able to use for the next few weeks and you do not have a good way to discharge it, consider storing it in the refrigerator, assuming your spouse allows it. This is my charging rig. My hobby room is in the basement where the temperature is always at or below 70°F I have enough batteries so that I can get 6 flights out of any helicopter without needing to charge at the field. I balance charge at 1C for the first 5 cycles (around 7 to 8 flights). After the first 5 cycles, if I charge the night before, I balance charge at 1C; If I charge the day of, I balance charge at 2C. I have not tried balance charging at 3C yet. I religiously store the packs at storage charge right after the end of the flying day. I store the packs in the basement, so they are not exposed to excessively high temperatures. Given the choice, I would store the packs at storage charge in the basement refrigerator, but my wife does not allow me to do that. With this method, I have LiPo's that are 4 years old, and the individual cell IR's compare very well to when they were brand new.
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07-01-2015, 10:10 AM | #33 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Lithium ion and lipo are similar batteries but not the same. The lipo will not lose charge over a few weeks like a lithium ion. The battery manufacturer who makes our batteries has said keeping them at room tempature and putting them in the fridge like we used to do with Nickel batteries does not make a difference on lipos. I don't have the time to explain why. I balance charge at the maximum C rated suggested by the manufacturer every time. I just checked the log and I have 4 batteries with 381 flights. what I see that makes the biggest difference with all our customers is putting a storage charge back in the battery as quickly as you can after a flight and not discharging them in the Heli less than 3.4 volts per cell.
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Alees Rush 700 x3, Alees Rush 750, XLPower 520, NX4, 250 quad racers, Tesla Power servos, Force batteries |
07-01-2015, 10:52 AM | #34 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Maybe I'm the opposition. I don't charge packs just to charge them and leave them around but I don't "store" packs that I didn't get to use at the field. I leave them charged up. I have a pair of batteries that have been fully charged for almost two months. They were down a little in voltage but I just flew the full length of time without any major problems. I have voltage telemetry and the voltage stayed good and I put back the same mah I always have.
I'm sure in practice its better to not leave a charged battery just sitting. |
07-29-2015, 10:56 PM | #35 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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3.85 volts per cell seems to be the best!
I probably have about $1000 or more worth of batteries that are useless now unless I use them on low current devices. These batteries are around 2 to 3 years old. They range from 3s 800 ma to 6s 5000 ma. Most of them have only seen around 50 charge cycles or less! During this time I only had a 150 watt and 80 watt charger so I used to charge my batteries as soon as I got home from the field ready for the next time I went flying. Whenever that was!
I have known for the last couple of years (from posts I've read) that lipos should be stored around 50% charge for a longer life span. Unfortunately with my ignorance I have paid the price! So how long can a lipo be left in its storage state before it goes bad? Well I guess that depends on a number of factors: 1. Quality of the battery (reputable brand) 2. How it's treated: a. Number of cycles b. Discharged too low and gets too hot c. Discharged too quickly (exceeded its discharge rating) 3. Ambient temperature when stored 4. Stored voltage But what really prompted me to write this post is that I discovered that I have 3 Zippy 3s 1000 ma batteries that I bought way back on 8th August 2012 that have never been used! That's right, they're almost 3 years old and never been fully charged! I don't know the manufacture date, so they are likely well over 3 years old. I bought them to use in my 250 class helicopter but they were too wide to fit under the canopy. As of the writing of this post, all 3 batteries are showing 3.84 volts across all cells! That's about 46% charge. Obviously using the battery (charging/discharging), changes the internal chemistry thereby shortening the life of the battery. I will use 2 of these batteries in parallel shortly on one of my 450 helis and will keep the other one and monitor its state! Recently I have purchased another $1000 worth of batteries as well as more chargers (during a 40% of sale, I couldn't resist!). I have a lot of helicopters! But my recommendations are if you want longevity out of your batteries: 1. Store at 50% charge for long periods of no use, but anywhere from 40% to 60% for shorter periods is probably OK. 2. Try not to discharge lower than 30% remaining charge. 3. Discharge at a rate of no more than 50% of the batteries' constant rating (if possible). Like the PSU in your PC, the efficiency is best at 50%. If your batteries are getting too hot/warm, then you probably need higher rating ones! Not all ratings are true unfortunately!
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T-REX 800E Trekker, T-REX 550E PRO DFC, T-REX 500 PRO DFC, T-REX 500E, Trex 450 Plus DFC, DX9, DX8, DX6i, Phoenix 5 Last edited by johnny66; 07-29-2015 at 11:10 PM.. Reason: Added some essential text and fixed some typos |
07-29-2015, 11:48 PM | #36 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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I just picked up a Parkzone RAF SE5a (it's discontinued so it can't be crashed). Along with my X3 it will be going with me when I head to the family cabin. The stock lipo is a 3s 1800 15C, so max 27a. I flew it mostly full throttle on maiden, battery doesn't even get warm, so I can't see much more than 20a from the plane, so about 5 minutes flight or 8 at 1/4-1/2 throttle.
The old 1300's I have from my mini switch balance out well, showed around 5 minutes flight, charged well, and discharged well, since one was left at a charged state. That's about 9 months that pack was like that, and I'm shocked it's still good.
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07-30-2015, 06:51 AM | #37 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central Utah, USA
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Balance charge at <= 1C to 4.15V and store at 3.85V in a cool place
Now that I own some larger batteries, I'm going to follow the advice of John Salt's (rchelicopterfun) LiPo blog article (which he keeps up-to-date - e.g. he recently decided that 4.15 is a better termination voltage than 4.2 based on recent research). Here's my (conservative) game plan:
I find it interesting that many of you are super careful about the storage voltage, but then go and charge them at 2C or 3C. Yes, the manufacturers may rate them higher than 1C, but my understanding is that LiPos are stressed less when you charge them at lower rates (i.e. Icharge <= 1C). |
07-30-2015, 06:59 AM | #38 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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07-30-2015, 07:04 AM | #39 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Yes I would agree with all of this! I have to admit, I have charged a little higher than 1C. Sometimes 1.25C but no higher than 1.5C. Have you ever charged Ni-cad or Nimh batteries on a fast charger (say in 1 hour)? Notice how hot they can get! That certainly can't be good for the battery! Does a Lipo heat up when charging up to 5C? I don't know.
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07-30-2015, 07:18 AM | #40 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Some time ago, I thought my PowerLab 6 was malfunctioning when I noticed it was charging my cells to 4.100 volts. I reset it a few times until it registered 4.200 volts. But now I know when the room I'm charging in is quite cold, it actually says "Cold Charge" and defaults to 4.100 volts!
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