DSM2 for all - Spektrum modules for JR/Futaba/Hitec

[DavidH]

What is amusing. XPS has not updated there website since November of 2006.
It is amusing they would update it the day after Spektrum anounces they will have SS modules for radios April 10th.
Seems like XPS has been polishing the mirrors and gassing up the smoke generator again.

David

[redneckteddy103]

here is the priceing

retail = retail
map = manufactor ajusted price


AR9000 DSM2 9-Channel Rx
SPMAR9000
Retail: $229.99
MAP: $169.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD JR W/AR7000RX
SPMMSJR7

Compatilbe with the following JR Radios:

347
388
Unlimited 8
PCM10
PCM10S
PCM10SX
PCM10SXII
8103
9303
10X

Retail: $329.99
MAP: $239.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD JR W/AR9000RX
SPMMSJR9

Compatilbe with the following JR Radios:

347
388
Unlimited 8
PCM10
PCM10S
PCM10SX
PCM10SXII
8103
9303
10X

Retail: $369.99
MAP: $299.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD FUT W/AR7000RX
SPMMSFUT7
Compatible with the following Futaba Radios:

7U Series Radios
8J Series Radios
9C Series Radios
9Z Series Radios
FN Series Radios

Retail: $329.99
MAP: $239.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD FUT W/AR9000RX
SPMMSFUT9
Compatible with the following Futaba Radios:

7U Series Radios
8J Series Radios
9C Series Radios
9Z Series Radios
FN Series Radios

Retail: $369.99
MAP: $299.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD MZ W/AR7000RX
SPMMSMZ7
Compatible with Futaba 12Z or 14MZ Radio Systems.

Retail: $329.99
MAP: $239.99


Spektrum DSM2 AIRMOD MZ W/AR9000RX
SPMMSMZ9
Compatible with Futaba 12Z or 14MZ Radio Systems.

Retail: $369.99
MAP: $299.99


Spektrum Flight Log
SPM9540

Retail: $59.99
MAP: $24.99

[spork]

Originally Posted by spork

Now I'm tempted to write a little program to test this theory.

Well, I have a little program, but it could really use some polishing. I'll make it so you can set the latency and see how the control feels. I will say this, 100 msec latency is definitely noticable.

I'll post the final program so people can play with it if interested.

[DebianDog]

Pricer than I thought it would be

[kgfly]

Scroll up about half way you will see I did a price comparison between Spektrum and XPS. XPS is a lot cheaper. The Spektrum module and Rx prices seem very high to me. Certainly a DX9/10 would make more sense to me than a new 9303+Spektrum module.

[ErichF]

You guys bitching about the price:

The Synthesized Module for the JR tx = $100
The Synthesized JR rx = $200

So $300 for a synth setup is acceptable, but $250-300 for a bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution is too much??

You same women go out and drop $350 for a gyro/servo.

C'mon people


Erich

[kgfly]

Well $299/9ch it seems about $100 too much to me when I can have a more richly featured, bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution for $179/8ch or $199/10ch

Particularly since outside the US the prices are often much higher. For example the DX7 lists in Australia for US$440 which is $100 more than in the US. The AR6100 lists for US$100, almost double the US price. That suggests to me that these flight packs will be more like US$400 over here

Of course the great thing about these modules/rx is that unlike the old FM ones, they are global products so I can order them from the US if I have to

[ErichF]

Your talking about a product that doesn't even have a release date yet. XPS can claim any price, so long as they don't deliver, what does it matter?

Erich

[spork]

I would think people would wait at least for the projected release date before trash talking a product. Why put yourself in a position to have to eat your words later.

By the way, I don't know if they'll come through or not. But they're not getting a deposit OR any crap from me until at least the projected release date.

[kgfly]

Actuall XPS have stated that they will have modules and Rx for sale at the Toledo show so that will be ahead of Spectrum.

Spektrum can claim any price they like too, they have not delivered either. Prices are always subject to change.

Guys I fly Spektrum and think it is marvelous. I don't have shares in Spektrum or XPS and I don't have a modular radio. I am just sharing information, my analysis and opinions which is what a forum is about, sharing amongst people with a common interest.

To me XPS looks technically better on several fronts and is cheaper. What's wrong with that ? Sure there have been delays but I believe they will ship this year and then we will be able to tell if they live up to their claims. Spektrum has more credibility since their technology is proven and they are owned by Horizon so have a sound financial platform for their business as well as a powerful distribution channel. If you prefer Spektrum that's fair enough too.

[DarkWombat]

Originally Posted by kgfly

Actuall XPS have stated that they will have modules and Rx for sale at the Toledo show so that will be ahead of Spectrum.

Spektrum can claim any price they like too, they have not delivered either. Prices are always subject to change.

Guys I fly Spektrum and think it is marvelous. I don't have shares in Spektrum or XPS and I don't have a modular radio. I am just sharing information, my analysis and opinions which is what a forum is about, sharing amongst people with a common interest.

To me XPS looks technically better on several fronts and is cheaper. What's wrong with that ? Sure there have been delays but I believe they will ship this year and then we will be able to tell if they live up to their claims. Spektrum has more credibility since their technology is proven and they are owned by Horizon so have a sound financial platform for their business as well as a powerful distribution channel. If you prefer Spektrum that's fair enough too.

However XPS is still not on the market and Spektrum have been tried-and-true for two years in planes and 3 years in surface use. We know their system works while XPS is still not delivering. I've heard that the CEO of XPS was in the paintball industry until he failed, and had the habit of making promises and generating hype but not delivering in the end. And this comes from the same guy who also told me two weeks ago that Spektrum was going to announce their aircraft modules by the end of the month. I have dealer access to Horizon Hobby (and yes occasionally dealers are in the know before the general public) but there was NOTHING about these Spektrum modules until today when they were released to everybody. Actually the information I had was that they were going to announce on the 28th of Feb. but it looks like they announced earlier.

So now I've gotta decide...get a DX7 now or save up and get a 9303 + DM9!

[DebianDog]

Originally Posted by ErichF

You same women go out and drop $350 for a gyro/servo.

[Danal Estes]

Originally Posted by kgfly

Well $299/9ch it seems about $100 too much to me when I can have a more richly featured, bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution for $179/8ch or $199/10ch

Where do I order? Oh, wait, gotta go fly my DX7... maybe when I get back their will be an order button...

I try to stay out of these brand-brand comparison things, but I just couldn't resist, knowing kgfly can take it....

[JackPerry]

Originally Posted by spork

I can tell you that for me less than 1/10th second latency is a non-issue. Interesting side note. When sprinters begin a race they measure the pressure on the starting block. If the runner pushes off the starting block LESS than 1/10th second after the pistol, he is guilty of a false start. I take that to mean they feel the very fastest possible reaction for a professional athlete in their prime is at least 1/10th second.

Question about the 7C - since it doesn't use a module where will this thing go? Will it get the PPM signal from the trainer port?

Thanks for the good news Kenneth. It'll be crazy for me to join the 21st century :mrgreen:

EDIT:

You are confusing reaction time with latency, they are not the same. Have you ever played online games? Difference between playing one with 100 ms and then 30 ms latency is like a night and day. Difference between 30 ms and 10 ms is not as great but still very noticable.

[JackPerry]

Check this out.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/press_office...media410.shtml

"Dr Mania explains: "The experiment began with the minimum delay possible - 12 milliseconds - and was then stepped up, with eight milliseconds added each time. The results show people are very sensitive to picking up on delay and this stays true across different VR environments. Most people notice the visual consequences of latency at around 15 milliseconds, but some are very sensitive down to changes of five, even four milliseconds. Related research gives VR developers a clearer idea of the limits they have to work with to improve the science further."

[Aussieheliguy]

Yes it's global Kenneth but is it covered by our MAAA insurance at our registered fields....

[spork]

Originally Posted by JackPerry

You are confusing reaction time with latency....

It seems you didn't read my follow-up post. I am writing a progam that anyone can download to experience the effect for themselves. Hopefully will post it in the next day or two.

[Kushal_22]

Originally Posted by kgfly

Remember that the latency for PPM on most Tx is much lower than for PCM (although not for the 9C which still suffers from CCPM-mixing constipation). For the 9303 it is 24ms vs 36ms. So the likelihood is that the 9303+Spektrum combination will not be significantly, if at all, slower than the 9303+PCM. All the Spektrum has to do is sample the PPM stream, tx the dataframe and then decode and output at the Rx.

XPS claim that their total latency from module input to Rx output is max 2.3ms. If Spektrum is similar then 9303+Spektrum will be better than 9303+PCM and rival DX7 latency

Sadly for 7c/9c/9z owners the PPM latency is 65ms (vs 68ms for PCM) but at least it shouldn't be any worse with Spektrum than it is with PCM.

Latency measurements can be found here: http://runryder.com/helicopter/t1725...ght=9c+latency

What you won't get with your old Tx plus a Spektrum module is the ModelMatch or the ServoSynch features. ServoSynch reorders the channels based on the mix chosen in the Tx and this is a big contributor to the DX7's outstanding CCPM performance. ModelMatch is a nice safety feature. On the flip side you get all the features of your favourite Tx (plus retain all the model memory programming).

Thank you!!

I Started kicking myself figuring i just wasted 450 dollars (Plus another 150 on another RX) for something i could have gotten with the 9C if i had Just waited. From what my Father has explianed to me from what he read in the Above qoute I am still alot further ahead with the Spektrum.....I Would keep a close eye on this if there was not so much "Greek" in there.


Regards
Mal

[spork]

OK my little program is done. It's certainly nothing fancy, but it helps you get the feel of what different latencies feel like.

All it does is to let you draw with the mouse. Nominally it does this with no latency. Each time you press the keyboard up-arrow it will increase the latency by 20 msecs. The down-arrow decreases latency by 20 msecs. Hold the left mouse button to draw, and click the rt mouse button to erase all.

The current latency is displayed in the upper left part of the screen.

The program shouldn't require any installation. Just unzip it wherever you like and run.

[CRAZYKEV]

My 9303 with a 2.4ghz module will still have less latency than my 9303 running PCM.

I'm good with how my radio operates right now and if it faster, then I can live with that :mrgreen: