Head Speed ??

[mmarian]

I am new to TDR and have maidened mine just a few days back. All went well !! What an amazing machine this is. The build was a great experience, makes one truly appreciate the German engineering, the precision, the finishes of the parts are second to none and one has to admire the tolerances and the quality of the tooling in the manufacturing process. But that all aside I have Jive 80HV, Pyro 700-52 and I am suppose to set the Throttle curve flat (for governed control) to about 24% to get a HS of about 1300. I followed that but the blades were almost visible, so low was the HS. So I gradually increased the TC up to 50% flat and I am now getting readings on my Smart phone Tacho about 1,450 RPM. After this long wind intro I am coming to my intended question. What HS do you normally fly at ??? I am just a sport flier not a stick banger. Blades are Edge 713 FBL, 12s set up with 2x Turnigy 5000 LiPo.

[Mercuriell]

The TDR will fly beautifully between 1400 and 2200 with the odd wobble from resonance once or twice in between. The quicker the HS the quicker you will drain your packs probably with little benefit - I'd aim for around 65% throttle which will probably get you around 1650 - I guess from your data you're running a 13t pinion but really the slower you are comfortable with the better ie the longer the flights - the TDR can still take off very quickly even at low HS !

[mmarian]

Originally Posted by Mercuriell

The TDR will fly beautifully between 1400 and 2200 with the odd wobble from resonance once or twice in between. The quicker the HS the quicker you will drain your packs probably with little benefit - I'd aim for around 65% throttle which will probably get you around 1650 - I guess from your data you're running a 13t pinion but really the slower you are comfortable with the better ie the longer the flights - the TDR can still take off very quickly even at low HS !

Thanks for your reply. I have to say that I am yet to explore all the benefits of low HS. So far I have only done 4 flights. The last one was almost 8 minutes, just cruising -loops and rolls Fig 8 and I had 46% left in the packs according to CellMeter-8.. I think I will follow your advice and go maybe to 55- 60% TC which should give me around 1,550 HS. I'd be happy with 7 minutes flight time.

[NRPY]

I like 1850-1900. Anything less feels lethargic to me.

[jhunter]

1700-1850 for me

[Stolla]

well I won't go higher than 1950 you can read in the manual Jan's recommended speeds, stick to that and you will have a lot of joy, it's not a high headspeed machine it's power to weight is so high that you're just wasting amps and wearing things out. As for low I have done full 3 d on my efp machine at 1100 so all depends on what you like, it's the most versatile machine of all.

[marcosp]

I love 1400 (had 1200 for some time and it's fun too), do most of the flight at 1700 which is solid and not a rage, and some 1850 but it always feels like too much. The TDR with its thin profile moves very fast, it accelerates quickly and doesn't loose speed on maneuver as other helis. You must get used to this and in my case that's why I feel more comfortable at 1700. At 1850 you do a half pyro and come backwards inverted to start a hurricane and it passes you like a freight train!!! Only maneuvers that are slower on a TDR are lateral ones, the big canopy has a lot of drag.

I mention all this to explain why for certain flight styles you don't need 1850. I only use it to smack it a little bit on the deck or for very fast backwards where I worry about a blowout.

[jamin_00]

Im loving 1650 at the moment.

It really is how you want it to feel. I tried lower than 1650 and did not like the feel of it. Higher had no real benefit for my flying style, its still fast at 1650 for big air. I do however have the odd part of the flight in idle 2 which I sometimes change that curve just before the flight depending on how I feel tbh as sometimes I do want to go flat out

[CyprusFlyer]

Have to agree that Jans recommended speeds are just fine, mostly fly at 1400 rpm does every thing I can do really smooth and graceful, I only have 1700 programmed in for now, and enjoy a couple of minutes at the end of the flight with a bit more noise and speed, then the other extreme with an auto rotation from high. Must say getting hooked on them since I dared to try last week.

[Danny_Swe]

I run 5000 Zippy LiPo before, you can easily get 8 minutes with 1500 rpm soft flying I use to set the timer at 4 minutes just to get some paus and do more efficient flying.

It takes a time to get used to low HS yes best is to have like two different and try them out a little and after tens of flights maybe you know a little more what you're looking for.

Personally I like both 1450 and 1650 rpm. Soft 3D with 1450 and a little more agile settings with 1650 rpm for harder flying. And 1850 with soft settings for speed

[Danny_Swe]

Originally Posted by CyprusFlyer

auto rotation from high. Must say getting hooked on them since I dared to try last week.

cool! I still haven't done a real one yet, only bailed out it feels like it hangs forever though

[shadowmastervn]

Hi, I prefer to take my TDR in 3 type of flying. Normal is for 1450 doing the soft 3D and peaceful flight. ST1 for 1800 for smack, but rarely take this because when use to the soft 3D, you gonna feel it and no more demand smack. ST2 for 100% of the HeliJive 120HV and don't care for the HS, I do this according to Jan manual advised full capacity of ESC and 14 pitch for speed run.
My suggestion is using 13T for this kind of three mode, Only run the 15T for speed run and soft 3D, cos it gonna bog and unstable when you do the 1800 for smack, and the system seem to work so hard.

[swalko]

Pinion size depend on used esc, selected mode, motor and requested rpms. My experience with Pyro 700-52 in TDR:

Helijive mode 4: 13t (14t)
Helijive mode 6: 14t (15t)
Helijive mode 8 with VStabi governor: 15t

I fly rpms range from 1200 up to 1850, pinion size is selected for governed 1850 rpms, i think that maximum for speed passes is somewhere around 1950 - 2000 rpms.

[mmarian]

After more testing I have these figures to share with you. My favorite so far is the Idle up 1 - 1,635 HS. Did not see any benefit in increasing the HS beyond 1,650. After almost 8 minutes in the air I have had 40% left in my cheep 5000 40-50C Turnigy packs with about 80 cycles already on them. More testing ahead but these early figures point towards the flight times between 9-10 minutes maybe even more on new or better packs. Quite amazing, IMHO.

Normal TC 50% = 1,495 HS
Idle up 1 65% = 1,635 HS
Idle up 2 70% = 1,685 HS

[dswitkin]

Glad to see such reasonable responses to a headspeed question. Some people seem to run insane RPM just for the bragging rights.

By the way, has anyone tried a headspeed vs. pitch comparison on the TDR? I'm happy with 1650 @ 12 degrees but am thinking more pitch might be fun to try. The idea being it's free in terms of power draw unless you use it. Thoughts?

[ZuvieleTeile]

I flew the TDR-700 mainly with 1650 and 14 degr. of pitch . . .

Now, with the 800 I am happy 1300 and 12 degr. pitch.

[marcosp]

My last 3 or 4 builds I start with 12.5 and then move up until I get the feel I like. With the TDR I ended up at 15º. When I measured after some time I went WTF!!! and lowered it to 14º. I do use it for many fast moves, all of it. I still fly 6:30 combining some 1400, a lot of 1700 and some 1850.

[mkovalcson]

Pyro 700-520, standard 13.5 pitch using nylon blocks

70% 13T = 1800 rpm
60% 13T = 1700 rpm
48% 13T = 1550 rpm

I stopped flying at 24%. While it was interesting, the tail authority was lacking.
I don't expect to use 70% anytime in the near future.

[mmarian]

A bit more flying under the belt, all at 65%TC that is with head speed at around 1, 635 mark. I run 13 deg pitch, lots of tic tocks and rainbows and funnels and fast flyovers. Generally just enjoying slicing through the the big blue sky. Flight time 9:30, putting back 3,500mAh into my Turnigy 5000 packs. The PYRO motor and the 80HV was however quite hot after two back to back flights. I am just guessing here but on touch it felt hot -maybe 60 -70C. I am considering installing a heat sink on the Jive and putting the duct into the front of the canopy to improve airflow through..BTW this is in our winter with outside temperature at around +12C, so I am bit worried that in our hot summer temperatures it might become an issue without these intended mods.

[marcosp]

Yeap, the 80HV is just ok, and will definitely be pushing it in the summer without a heat sink, even at 1630. I am in Buenos Aires and out climate is pretty similar to yours. Last summer with 32ºC the Jive 120HV with heat sink was coming down pretty hot, with a Pyro, though no duct. I believe the 80HV would have shutdown.

9:30! Nice!