600e Pro Tail Blow Outs

[ReadyToCrash]

Originally Posted by anmatheextreme

For anyone that is interested, a couple of days ago I managed to make the main blades and the 105mm tail blades touch during a piro tic toc. I was running 2300rpm with the Align 600mm blades. Fortunately my main blades got away with a couple of surface marks but can't say the same for my tail blades. Strange thing is that I am not using the low DFC head but only the old EFL head. Back to 95s now and 2400 headspeed until I do the tail gear ratio mod. Just a heads-up for anyone that is flying with a similar setup and hard 3D.

it definitely puts an end to the question.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by anmatheextreme

For anyone that is interested, a couple of days ago I managed to make the main blades and the 105mm tail blades touch during a piro tic toc.

Yes, that settles the debate.
To be honest after checking the clearance on my own DFC 600 Pro I knew for certain that there was potential for the blades top touch, I could easily make them touch without applying any force, and didnt really believe the few mm extra mast height on the FBL would make much difference... But others said FBL was ok and I couldnt be bothered arguing.

The stretch is remains a viable option that cures the problem completely.

[ReadyToCrash]

And if hadn’t happened with an efl head, there would still be a debate on it…

[jmtyndall]

I'm working with someone that can build us a "plug and play" stretch kit. It would come with boom, torque tube, and tail pushrod. The stretch would be mild, but should provide room to run up to 620mm main blades and 105mm tails. Would anyone be interested in this?

[Gladius]

It all depends on the price...

[OnTheSnap]

And then when you crash it, suddenly you have to "un-stretch" it unless the parts are readily available at a shop or direct. So not that sustainable. I guess if your flight to crash ratio isn't that bad it might make sense to mount custom parts.

It's a nice fix though. Something that Align should have done if it had woken up from the coma that is the 600L design.

[jmtyndall]

Thats why I want to do it. Align should have fixed several issues for the 600L but instead they chose to "put lipstick on a pig"

I'll know pricing when we source parts and make prototypes

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

And then when you crash it, suddenly you have to "un-stretch" it unless the parts are readily available at a shop or direct. So not that sustainable.

What's 'not sustainable' about it? You can make any of the required parts from 700 Pro parts in less than an hour with no more tools than a hand file and a hack saw. It would be even easier if you had the damaged 'stretch' parts to use as a template.

The idea of a stretch kit sounds good for those who don't want to make everything from scratch.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

What's 'not sustainable' about it? You can make any of the required parts from 700 Pro parts in less than an hour with no more tools than a hand file and a hack saw. It would be even easier if you had the damaged 'stretch' parts to use as a template.

The idea of a stretch kit sounds good for those who don't want to make everything from scratch.

For cutting the boom a pipe cutter is much better. Just take your time and it comes off clean.

But the torque tube has integrated ends. So you just need to find a compatible substitute, or find a way to remove and mount the 700e TT ends.

You prob don't need to change the boom supports.

I actually shrunk my Fusion50 boom since it greatly improved elevator performance. You get more pendulum effect with the longer boom. 600e had a nice short boom which was one of the best flight characteristics of my 600e pro when I had it. It just needed a better tail gear ratio!

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

For cutting the boom a pipe cutter is much better. Just take your time and it comes off clean.

But the torque tube has integrated ends. So you just need to find a compatible substitute, or find a way to remove and mount the 700e TT ends.

I've done it, no pipe cutter, no issues with shortening the 700 TT once I figured out how. Copied from previous thread:


I decided to do a 'stretch' on my Align Trex 600 Pro so i could fit larger tail blades (105mm up from 95mm) plus use some 623mm main blades that I picked up. The standard set up with 600/95mm blades has only marginal clearance between blade tips so not much room for any increase in blade size.

To fit these blades safely would require a longer tail boom. Luckily the boom, torque tube and tail control pushrod from a Trex 700 are more than long enough and of the same diameter, so hopefully could be made to fit.

Hopefully this might be a useful reference for anyone here thinking of doing something similar.

So the proposed stretch spec is:

• Heli: Align Trex 600Pro DFC
• Main-blades: Edge 623 LE FBL
• Tail-blades: Edge 105mm
• Tail boom, Torque tube and pushrod: Trex 700e cut down

I wanted to minimise the boom increase as far as possible to prevent the heli becoming tail heavy, and also to stop it looking like a stick-insect:rolleyes:, so going all out and fitting the much longer unmodified 700 boom was not an option.

Minimum for the stretch is the sum of the main and tail blade length increase, so thats 23mm for the main plus 10mm for the tail = 33mm. I rounded up to 35mm.

The work only took one evening. The boom has to be cut down and a longer locating slot cut in the front to fit into the 600 boom mount. I cut it down from both ends to make sure that the writing on the boom didn't end up being partially covered by the pushrod guide (just me being fussy). The holes for the front locating screw and the pin that locates the tail drive were match marked after trial fitting the boom and then drilled. This was all pretty easy.

Cutting the carbon pushrod down was easy enough and some heat got the threaded rod and metal end cover off without too much difficulty. Only thing to note is that the threaded rod and ball joint on the 700 pushrod are bigger than the 600. I drilled out the 600 plastic ball joints to fit the thicker 700 screwed rod.

The trickiest job was shortening the torque tube that drives the tail rotor. The tube is thin wall aluminium with the end drive spigots screwed into the tube with an internal left hand thread on the tube end. The problem is that once you cut the torque tube down you lose the threaded portion, and cutting a new fine pitch left hand thread wasn't an option with the tools I have. No real choice then but to simply press the drive spigot into the tube secured with green loctite. I actually flown it this way six or seven times and it held up ok, but then got worried when someone told me that their similar stretch had failed at this connection, so took the tube out and pinned through the joint with a 2mm bolt. Hopefully it's bullet proof now.

And that was about it, here are some photos:

700 and 600 tail booms side by side.. the 700 is much longer:


Locating slots, the 700 is shorter:


Shortened and with longer slot cut:


Comparison after cutting down to 35mm stretch:


Pinned torque tube:


Blade clearance after stretch:


Ready to fly:

[OnTheSnap]

Nice work. Looks easy.

[Mike A.]

Nice work on the stretch!

[teshreve]

Finally, and I mean FINALLY, got my 600 flying again. A 600 size Align is the only "big" heli I have ever owned. And I bought the first one in 2007

I have owned every iteration and bought almost every tweak and hack they have made for the 600.

It's been so long since I've flown my 600 because, for some reason, I started blowing the front bevel tail gears. 3 bad crashes in 20 flights. The last time I literally threw my smashed 600 as hard as I could at the wall. That didn't help. And so it sat for... about a year and half. I presented it's smashedness proudly on my wall for all to see the fail that is the 600 Pro and its hacked descendants..

Until today.

I bought all the parts last weekend, including a Castle Creations Edge 120 and a KDE motor. They arrived over the week and last night I re-assembled this thing. I also bought the KDE tail kit and planned to return to the original tail ratio. In the end I didn't, but still used the .5mm shims that come with it and bolted on the 95mm tail blades and set the governor to 2300. After a few dial-in flights, getting the v-bar happy, etc I went on a 10 flight binge. Longest set of runs in 3 years without a tail problem. I think 2300 with the 105's is just too much for the gears... or I was incredibly unlucky. Either way, the gears have no slop and appear to be holding up perfectly.
The tail is holding well, but I am pushing it incrementally out of paranoia. But it has ridonkulous power, is super agile, yet floats like a Cadillac,
I guess I am re-hooked. Finally. FINALLY.

Now back to crashing because of me. And not because this heli sucks infected donkey ass.

[ReadyToCrash]

are you using 105mm tail blades along with 600mm main blades?
if so, don't, they strike each other. there is a thread here in helifreak with a photo attached.

[cbrkhan]

I used 600 blades with 105 tail on my stock 600 pro ... I simply pushed boom out about 10 mm and re drilled a hole to hold the boom in place ..... The TT inside has enough room inside gears that if its pulled 5 mm from each side it still engages the gear perfect

[teshreve]

Originally Posted by ReadyToCrash

are you using 105mm tail blades along with 600mm main blades?
if so, don't, they strike each other. there is a thread here in helifreak with a photo attached.

That thread is THIS thread

I had the tail blades strike the main blades a few years ago, right after the DFC crap came out. After that I tightened the main blades down real good and flew >2100rpm and have at least 300 flights without a problem. I know it is possible, I know that others have had it happen, but isn't a problem for me. Been using the Align 105's and Edge 603's forever.

I do appreciate the warning and looking out!

[ReadyToCrash]

No, i mean a recent strike that happened this month or so. The thread is this only really. See the anmatheextreme's reply a few posts above.

[ReadyToCrash]

Originally Posted by cbrkhan

I used 600 blades with 105 tail on my stock 600 pro ... I simply pushed boom out about 10 mm and re drilled a hole to hold the boom in place ..... The TT inside has enough room inside gears that if its pulled 5 mm from each side it still engages the gear perfect

so you didn`t have to change the tt? interesting news, but how to stop the tt from moving back and forth? if so, one end will certainly disengage the opposite gear...

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by ReadyToCrash

interesting news, but how to stop the tt from moving back and forth?

Exactly.. I guess if you do something to make sure that the TT is lixed at 5mm out at both end it should be ok, but if it's left to float it will inevitably end up fully engauged at one end and 'pulled out' by the full 10mm at the other. That would leave very little engaugement remaining, not good!

[jmtyndall]

I wonder if you could carefully drill and tap each end for a set screw? Installed axially through the aluminum end, then you could adjust it out far enough that it acts as a limiter