Total G Unstable?

[mjcelli]

I'm a new/intermediate heli pilot and have been using the Total G for the last year on a Pantera 50, complete with digital servos and JR8900DS tail servo. Motor is an OS50 Hyper. Pretty standard setup.

It flies great practicing back and forth flying and figure 8's. I'm doing some flips, piros, etc. and it seems fine. Blade pitch set +/- 12 degrees.

Finally got the nerve to try stationary rolls and I noticed something strange. The heli becomes unstable and when it comes upright again it wants to pitch left or right quite a bit. It seems the heli becomes unstable and after a few seconds will recover itself.

I let a more experienced pilot try it out and make some adjustments to the Total G and he confirmed my suspicion. He stated that the Total G seems to not be able to keep up with the orientation of the heli to keep it stabilized. When inverted the heli became sluggish and he almost lost it.

I bought the Total G about 3 years ago used off of RunRyder. I believe the firmware
is up to date.

Any idea what's happening here??

Thanks for any input!

[pctomlin]

Not a lot of information to go on but is sounds like you need to go into the advanced menu and adjust the right and left stop values. I have two units on Outrage 550s and they perform flawlessly, I have a third unit going on a Rave Ballistic.

You said you bought the unit used, did you set it back to factory defaults before starting set-up for your heli. This is also in the advanced menu, it is the blue [Reset Parameters] button.

fc11_3C7 is the latest firmware.

[mjcelli]

Thanks for the reply.

Here's some settings I have currently:

Max Gain: 52
FC Gain: Aux3 D 50

Stops are all set at 31

Mixes:
Flip: 0
Roll: 0

Expo: 30

Funny, the firmware version I have is "fc11_0"


Let me know if I can provide any other information. Thanks.

[pctomlin]

That is an older firmware. You can send it in to Curtis and he will update it and send it back to you for free, highly recommend the newer firmware. He will also send it back DSMX compatible with failsafe set up too. Just send an email to tech support at CYE enterprises that it is coming. Can't say enough good about Curtis, Brian and CYE.

Default stop values are 33, may try upping them to this setting. I don't remember the firmware change, but at one point the cyclic max setting change from 14 deg to 11 deg. Another thing to watch for is slop in the servos and linkage. It is strange that it flips fine, but has an issue with rolls. How do your flight control limit numbers compare for front to back and left to right, they should be close. Also check your transmitter ATV percentage for the aileron, this may be too low. The aileron ATV should be close to the same as the elevator ATV (equal cyclic on aileron/elevator).

If you don't have it go here and download the detailed set up instructions for the TotalG, it will explain a lot of the things in the software. I can't upload the PDF directly to you because it is too big.
http://curtisyoungblood.com//TotalGS...pectacular.php

CJ Youngblood Enterprises, Inc.
903 S. Main Street
Bryan, TX 77803

[CF_Machete]

actually you can update your firm ware with out sending it to cye. Current firmware is available on their website http://curtisyoungblood.com//TotalGS...pectacular.php. I believe that the support team may have another version of the firmware to correct the cyclic connection issues that some folks have had, but that can send that to you over the net. I had that issue on one of my t-g's but sent it back to them for the dsmx upgrade.... which they had to do in shop.

[mjcelli]

Thanks for responses guys!

Flight control limit numbers are as follows:
Right: 1920
Left: 1096
Back: 1104
Forward: 1928

Also the ATV's for the elevator and aileron is 115% low and high, so they're the same. I may up these numbers as suggested.

One thing I was wondering is what people are running their flight control gain at. Mine may be too low at 50??

I have an email into C-Y (Brian) so we'll see what they say.

This is probably a dumb question, but why am I missing the firmware file on the C-Y website?? Can't seem to find it. Arrrrgh!

Thanks again!

[Tommy Wagner]

Originally Posted by mjcelli

Thanks for responses guys!

Flight control limit numbers are as follows:
Right: 1920
Left: 1096
Back: 1104
Forward: 1928

Also the ATV's for the elevator and aileron is 115% low and high, so they're the same. I may up these numbers as suggested.

One thing I was wondering is what people are running their flight control gain at. Mine may be too low at 50??

I have an email into C-Y (Brian) so we'll see what they say.

This is probably a dumb question, but why am I missing the firmware file on the C-Y website?? Can't seem to find it. Arrrrgh!

Thanks again!

Is this a spektrum system? If so i dont think those limits are right.

The firmware is in the software. Make sure that when you set those limits that there is 11 degrees of cyclic and the stick is all the way over when you hit the set buttons.


http://m.youtube.com/user/ravekaos

That link should get you to the setup vids they will help explain more

Tommy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CF_Machete]

Originally Posted by mjcelli

Thanks for responses guys!

Flight control limit numbers are as follows:
Right: 1920
Left: 1096
Back: 1104
Forward: 1928

Also the ATV's for the elevator and aileron is 115% low and high, so they're the same. I may up these numbers as suggested.

One thing I was wondering is what people are running their flight control gain at. Mine may be too low at 50??

I have an email into C-Y (Brian) so we'll see what they say.

This is probably a dumb question, but why am I missing the firmware file on the C-Y website?? Can't seem to find it. Arrrrgh!

Thanks again!

just click the green box on the link i posted



vboy55, his #'s look odd b/c he's using an outdated firmware. that version had the limits set to 14 not 11.

[pctomlin]

The update in CF_Machete's post is to the interface program, not a TotalG firmware upgrade. You do want to run the newer interface. You need to be in the interface program with your TotalG hooked up to check for a newer firmware version. If I remember correctly fc11_0 will show up as the latest update.

Your flight control numbers/ATV look okay comparing how close min and max on elevator and aileron are but the final result of what the actual cyclic pitch is is what really counts.

[mjcelli]

Thanks guys!

Yes, I have a JR9303 Tx.

Funny thing is, I downloaded the software but it seems to be the "fc11_0" firmware listed as the latest unless I'm missing something. I tried "check for updates" and it said there aren't any.

Anyone have any comment about a good value for the FC gain? I'm at 50 now. Would increasing this value help with stability?

I'm going to review the setup videos again also...thanks for the links!

[pctomlin]

FC gain in the 50 area is usually pretty good. My Outrage 550s like the FC gain around 46%. To test give the cyclic stick a good bump for elevator and aileron and see if you get any oscillation. If it stays locked similar to a tail then all is fine. You can keep bumping up the setting about 2% at a time until you see oscillation and then reduce back 2-4%.

Contact Brian at CYE to see if he will send you fc11_3c7. If your 9303 is DSMX compatible it may be worth sending your unit in and having it checked out and updated to make sure everything is good with it.

[mystar60]

The fc11_0 is the last public release. The other versions are ones that were obtained from Curtis that he would email at request.
The FC gain should be increased until you get the oscillation on the cyclics. I tend to do this by hovering and give small but quick inputs looking for the oscillation. I find that the model flies better once you reach that optimum setting.
If you have not seen these, check out these videos on setting up and flight tuning the TotalG.

http://m.youtube.com/user/ravekaos?client=mv-google

[mjcelli]

Great, thanks for the input all! I'll work through the setup vids again and see if anything jumps out.

[pctomlin]

Keep is posted on how it goes.

[mjcelli]

I have an email into TG tech support now. I'll see what comes of it.

Another way to describe my issue is that maybe the TG is overshooting when rolled or goes inverted and then tries to recover.

What parameters would cause an "overshoot" condition?

Thanks for all the input!

[pctomlin]

This comes out of the manual under the advanced section about setting stops:

To check the stop, do at least two slow rolls and stop
rolling. If the machine bounces when you stop then the
number is too low. If it continues to roll when you tell it to
stop then the number is too high. Make sure you let go of the
control cleanly on the stop. How you let go of the stick can
affect the results. Note‐ If you set the stop for a very slight
bounce back after the three rolls, the machine tic tocs more

consistently.

You do this test for right, left, front and back flips.

[mjcelli]

Thanks for pointing that out! I'll do the test as stated.

[mjcelli]

Short update.

Did a resetup with the latest 'beta' firmware.

It seems like the stops were the issue after all -- per some of the very helpful comments.

FC gain is at around 48 or 49.

Stops are now set at 30.

I used to have the stops at 31 then 33 which seemed to cause the overshoot condition. 30 seems to be where it likes to be. I didn't realize just a point or two would make such a difference.

Does anyone know if Curtis will continue to update/support the Total G?? It's been
eerily quiet in terms of upgrades and people using the Total G.

Thanks for all the input!!

[pctomlin]

I am enjoying flying mine. Have them on two Outrage 550s and just put another one into service on my Rave Ballistic. The TotalGs have been working great for me, all have been updated to fc11_3c7, DSMX compatible with failsafe. I don't plan on changing them out for a very long time. I have a SK 540 on a 450 SEV2 because it has a smaller footprint than the TotalG.

[mjcelli]

Pctomlin -- Yes, I'm going to keep mine also. Was going to replace it with possibly a BeastX. I have an Align 600 with Vbar 3.0 on it and it flies great as well. I'm glad I was able to get the issues resolved with the Total G!