mCP X vs mSR X question

[seldredg]

Hi all. I just started flying with a MCX2 and an mSR X. On the CP version, what is it that controls the changing pitch of the rotor blades? The controls are the same as on the mSR X, so is the rotor pitch changed by the computer as a function of cyclic position? Having been heavily into RC helicopter flying since last friday, I am already contemplating my next step.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by seldredg

Hi all. I just started flying with a MCX2 and an mSR X. On the CP version, what is it that controls the changing pitch of the rotor blades? The controls are the same as on the mSR X, so is the rotor pitch changed by the computer as a function of cyclic position? Having been heavily into RC helicopter flying since last friday, I am already contemplating my next step.

Welcome to the club!

Not sure what you're trying to say here, though I'll take a crack at it.

The msrx is a 4 channel fixed pitched bird, and the controller is the same as what you'd find on on some of the other blade helis. The blades don't change pitch (angle). it uses a stock controller like this:




The mcpx uses a completely different controller and it is indeed 6 channel collective pitch



The dx4e provides the additional functionality for variable pitch features on the mcpx.

If you get further into the hobby, get a dx6i and sell the dx4e on ebay. The dx6i allows you to program different flight characteristics to match your skill level on the mcpx (and other models).

The controls may seem the same, but the throttle (left stick) also controls blade pitch on the 6 channel bird. On the 4 channel heli, Up-down on the left stick only controls throttle

Hope this helps

[Lessthanryan]

Hey Man welcome to the addiction!

I know what you are looking for:

With your MSRx as you move the left stick the propeller spins faster, thus the heli flies. The more throttle the "faster" the prop spins and the heli gains altitude.

With a CP heli, you will have 2 maybe 3 flight modes.

In normal mode, you will fly very similar to the MSRx in that the left stick controls how fast the blade spins. In addition to how fast it spins it also controls the cooresponding pitch with that throttle position (this is programmed in the RX and can be changed etc...). Throttle points maybe 0-25-50-75-100 and pitch may be 0-20-40-60-80-100 etc...

In sport or idle up (i/u) mode the heli hold a contsant head speed or throttle (100%, 80%...or whatever your liking). When in I/U the left stick now only controls the pitch. Mid stick is 0 pitch up is positive, down is negative pitch.

Took me a while to figure it out.

Basically when you fly a CP in I/U mode you flip the mode switch and it changes the function. Most of the time you will flip it on the ground, the heli will spool all the way up (on the ground) and you will then apply the pitch to fly it off the ground.

[Talesin]

I'd recommend the DX6i first, honestly; just tried re-binding my MLP4DSM (black blobby) to my mSR and mCX2 and it was an absolute pain in the backside to fly with.

Second, yes.. the left (throttle) stick controls the collective pitch as well as the motor RPM.
An idle-up (or flight-mode) switch can decouple these, setting the motor throttle to a fixed level (usually 100%.. there are other bits, but are outside the 'simple' explanation here, like V-curves and governing), leaving you controlling the heli with ONLY the pitch of the blades changing, determining how much lift you have. (Also meaning that if you crash, you MUST use the throttle hold switch to stop the motor, or change back to 'normal' flight mode from idle-up first.)

This is a *GOOD* thing, and why the mCPX flies so much better outdoors and in wind; the headspeed (blade speed) also determines how much cyclic control you have. On a fixed-pitch (mSR, 120SR, etc) you sometimes are faced with the choice between lowering throttle to reduce the lift generated (such as if the wind is blowing hard and causing the heli to rise... look up transitional lift effect for more information), or keeping the throttle up so you can still 'steer' the heli as it flies higher and higher, potentially out of sight entirely. Or frantically juggling between the two, trying to keep it low enough to see, while still keeping it from landing on a neighbor's roof, or in a tree.
On the mCPX, you'd just flip into idle-up, then lower the left stick to reduce the amount of lift the rotor is generating, and still maintain full cyclic control as the blades are still spinning at full speed.

Also, the mCPX doesn't have the terrible coding problem that causes the mSRX to go *shooting* off in seemingly random directions any time you apply rudder.

The other big change is that with the mCPX, you only have half the throttle throw you're used to. So from mid-stick to top is what you'll be using. Below mid-stick, the blade pitch goes negative (pulling the heli toward the ground faster and harder)... also good for windy flying, and something you'll just need to get used to. Makes it feel incredibly twitchy and violent, coming from a fixed-pitch heli... which it kind of is. Though once you're used to it, going back to a FP heli will feel sloppy and way too loose.

[Lessthanryan]

DX6i is a great choice and can't beat the price ($136 at ampdraw). Once you fly the CP the FP will feel like a thing of the past almost instantly lol

[seldredg]

Thank you. You've all answered the question. The explanation of how throttle behaves on a fixed pitch was also helpful, as I've already found myself juggling between lower throttle to stop a climb and then adding throttle to gain control prevent touchdown etc. A little bit of wind (wind I don't notice myself) is enough to affect it apparently.

What I learned before buying made a computer controlled Tx sound worth it, so I bought a DX6i and BNF helis. Definitely the way to go. I think when I get to CP I'll get something a little larger than the mCP. (Or more likely, an mCP AND something a little larger. May sell a motorcycle to support a new hobby.).

[Talesin]

The mCPX is a very good 'trainer' CP heli.. larger is stabler, but is also more costly to crash (which WILL happen, especially when first learning to fly CP) whereas the mCPX tends to just bounce.
The Blade 450 X is the best step up as far as going large is concerned (in my opinion, anyway), but should only really be considered after three or four months with the mCPX unless you've got cash to burn. A better investment would be a copy of Phoenix... the mCPX model in it is worthless, but the 450 3D (edited and set to Passive Flybarless) is almost spot on as far as practicing with a larger heli goes.

Use Phoenix to get used to things, and the mCPX to get real hover-time in (and the unexpected drifts, dips, slews, failures, erratic battery power and so on that comes with not being in a simulation). It's how I'm teaching a couple of friends at this point, without risking my actual helis (as much). None of them get stick-time on my 450 though. Just too time-intensive to repair and heartbreaking to see it hit the ground, when you aren't the one controlling it.

[temtnf8]

Originally Posted by seldredg

Thank you. You've all answered the question. The explanation of how throttle behaves on a fixed pitch was also helpful, as I've already found myself juggling between lower throttle to stop a climb and then adding throttle to gain control prevent touchdown etc. A little bit of wind (wind I don't notice myself) is enough to affect it apparently.

What I learned before buying made a computer controlled Tx sound worth it, so I bought a DX6i and BNF helis. Definitely the way to go. I think when I get to CP I'll get something a little larger than the mCP. (Or more likely, an mCP AND something a little larger. May sell a motorcycle to support a new hobby.).

If you're going to be waiting a little while to get a CP bird, look at the 130X and 300X. Both look to be pretty fun and fairly easy to fly..

[Imzzaudae]

The best advice I could give you is quit now while you still have money in the bank and room on your credit card! Should you choose not to take the aforementioned advice.

Please take a little time and read the documents at the fallowing link.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=407020
Ron

[seldredg]

Will be a while before I CP.

I looked at Phoenix, but got two helis instead. Not sure it will run well enough on my laptop, which is 5 years old running XP. Have a newer Mac but don't have Windows on it. I'll let how I progres with the mSR X dictate. I would like to have it.

And having experience with racing karts and motorcycles, and an ultralight a few years ago, I already know how to buy expoensive things I don't need instead of milk and clothes for work and the house doesn't need painting that bad, does it...

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by seldredg

Thank you. You've all answered the question. The explanation of how throttle behaves on a fixed pitch was also helpful, as I've already found myself juggling between lower throttle to stop a climb and then adding throttle to gain control prevent touchdown etc. A little bit of wind (wind I don't notice myself) is enough to affect it apparently.

What I learned before buying made a computer controlled Tx sound worth it, so I bought a DX6i and BNF helis. Definitely the way to go. I think when I get to CP I'll get something a little larger than the mCP. (Or more likely, an mCP AND something a little larger. May sell a motorcycle to support a new hobby.).

That's what I did, I bought a mcpx and a SR. I tamed down the mcpx to learn (am still doing so) basic cp flight and orientation. And got Phoenix for more practice.

Took a break from the SR after wrecking it last month, concentrated on the smaller bird. Got the SR back in the air last night, was able to handle it a lot better.

And, got my first loop on the mcpx last weekend, after switching from the "tame" control set to the stock one.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by seldredg

Will be a while before I CP.

I looked at Phoenix, but got two helis instead. Not sure it will run well enough on my laptop, which is 5 years old running XP. Have a newer Mac but don't have Windows on it. I'll let how I progres with the mSR X dictate. I would like to have it.

And having experience with racing karts and motorcycles, and an ultralight a few years ago, I already know how to buy expoensive things I don't need instead of milk and clothes for work and the house doesn't need painting that bad, does it...

Nah, the house doesnt need a repaint, don't let the wife convince you.

In my house, the Road King competes with my heli addiction. So far, my wife has been understanding, and forgiving. It helps that she rides her own bike too.

Even when I clipped her two little toes on her left foot with an mcpx blade last week (luckily, I had hit throttle cut beforehand, but she still came out black/blue).

[Imzzaudae]

A little more in-depth answer to your original question.
Ron

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=412667

[seldredg]

Nice, thanks. I've added it to my notebook. I like to know all the nuts and bolts.

[timmyd463229]

I think you should atleast fly your msrx for atleast a month before buying collective pitch heli it will teach you fast reactions and orientation then after you learn orientation and how to fly the msrx in all directions comfortably then get the mcpx it will help out a lot

[phill533]

Seldredg, I'm in the same boat as you, maybe a little bit ahead. I bought the MSRX as my first heli and learned to fly on it. Probably been a few months. I just bought the MCPX two days ago. All I can say is wow, the mcpx is sooooo much fun to fly. I had to figure out the CP settings on it as well as I was totally lost.

I don't think the MCPX would be as fun as it is now if I didn't learn on the MSRX. The MSRX tought me how to handle the a 4 channel heli with all the orientations and cyclic movements. Got a DX6i, toned down the MSRX, and flew it inside until the weather got better. Then practiced outside with it.

Also got the Phoenix flight sim and played with all sorts of different heli's.

So here's my point. I've practiced with the MSRX, and about 15 minutes a night with Phoenix, both 4 channel and CP. I've now got an MCPX and after 2 days I can fly inverted for a couple secs. So practice on the msrx and when you jump to the mcpx you will love it.

One side note. The MCPX seems to crash MUCH harder than the MSRX.

[seldredg]

I won't be getting a CP soon. Not at least until I stop crashing what I have. Flying a model is harder than flying a real airplane.

[Talesin]

Doesn't help that the mSRX is a POS, compared to the mSR. Really need to put mine up on the for-sale section someday soon.