Blade need to compete ...

[tomatwalden]

Just a thought this ...

One of the reasons I think the Blade "Pro Series" line isn't as popular as it could be, especially with the 700X is the lack of competition pilots flying them. I know JamesH competed at Venlo last year flying one, but he was a lone pilot in a sea of Gaui sponsored guys, Mikado vests and Align flags.

I'm sure Blade (I also think the guys should fly under this moniker, not "Horizon Hobby") has enough good pilots to put up a good showing at a pro level competition. If not - it really needs them to make inroads into the non-micro market.

Take Thunder Tiger for example, with Nick Maxwell and the E700, or SAB with BertK and Kyle, Gaui with Duncan Bossion.

Top pilots sell big helis. Can you imagine the kudos for example if any of those guys named above flew and competed for "Blade" ?

Just my thoughts of course, but I think until Blade is seen moving and shaking at this level, it will struggle to take serious market share ... regardless of how good the actual product is ...

[Iskareot]

It's not been out long enough I do not think.. or that size heli that is for Blade. First you need the name then some time in the air as one really.

I think Blade will keep it going though.

I hope we get some pro series 300s --

[spykez]

Yeah a decent 300x would be nice.

I just got a Rex 250 plus btf for the lols and frankly was quite amazed by the build quality.

C'mon Blade, arguably you have advantage in the fbl unit.

[tomatwalden]

My experience with a btf trex 250 plus DFC was very different . It had so many problems (like the locktited pinion falling off, and cheese screws ) that I took it back within days and demanded my money back.

Really, I started this thread more about how Blade breaks into the top end market properly by having a visible flight team at major competitions.

Perhaps this gets more focus outside the US?


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[TheQuixote]

To compete blade will need to build something that will cause the top end smack pilots to go "Wow this is better than my..."

One problem they have is, if there is a part on the shelf ( Motor, servo, ESC ) they will have to use it.

And the other is they seem to have locked themselves into designs that aren't bad, they're just not competitive for smack flying. Looking at the 550x, from the specs it appears to be almost 4lbs heavier than an X5 with the weight lower on the frame. It is swinging 550mm blades and X5 is swinging 500's, but still, it's almost twice as heavy.

The 700's might be a different story, but right out of the gate the 550x looks like it would be dwarfed by the X5 in terms of smack performance.

[raisinjack]

Originally Posted by TheQuixote

To compete blade will need to build something that will cause the top end smack pilots to go "Wow this is better than my..."

One problem they have is, if there is a part on the shelf ( Motor, servo, ESC ) they will have to use it.

And the other is they seem to have locked themselves into designs that aren't bad, they're just not competitive for smack flying. Looking at the 550x, from the specs it appears to be almost 4lbs heavier than an X5 with the weight lower on the frame. It is swinging 550mm blades and X5 is swinging 500's, but still, it's almost twice as heavy.

The 700's might be a different story, but right out of the gate the 550x looks like it would be dwarfed by the X5 in terms of smack performance.

not necessarily. there are pictures of James with his 700X and it has a scorpion in it.

[spykez]

Sorry. Back to the issue, you can't even buy a blade 700 locally here. Or 600, you have to order them in special.

I guess it could be marketing.

And still the reputation, I mean, I guess people hear Blade pro and still remember the speedy debacle.

The b700 looks like it could fly as good as any other 700, perhaps.

But getting people interested, as you rightly put it, is hard and maybe HH may want to push their micro and submicro line more as I expect more profits are made there, thus simple economics maybe, focus marketing the line that'll net you most profit?

I mean, the small stuff here just seems to move. Mate of mine couldn't get an nQX for a while due to backorder and they must make on the spares.

[TheQuixote]

Originally Posted by raisinjack

not necessarily. there are pictures of James with his 700X and it has a scorpion in it.

But the kit comes with an E-Flite Heli 700. I imagine James H changed out the servos as well.

Point is, their 500 and up helicopters are positioned in kind of a weird place if they want to attract smack pilots. There not uniquely engineered and designed like Goblins, not KISS super light weight designs like the X5, and not cheaper than a T-Rex. They are nice helicopters ( I would look very closely at the 700 if I ever go up to that size ) but they just don't stand out in any meaningful way.

I do agree with the OP, maybe they need to focus a little more on getting pilots out to competitions to help their image. Just think they're in an awkward place to attract those pilots.

[RichKnapp]

Originally Posted by spykez

you can't even buy a blade 700 locally here. Or 600, you have to order them in special.

I live 2-3 hours north of HH in IL. My LHS don't stock and heli's bigger than 450, they have a 500X but it was a order that was backed out of when they seen the size.

They don't even stock 500X or my 550X parts. They say it isn't economical to keep them in stock for them because the big heli's (in general, any brand) are not a big sellers.

And yet they bitch at me for buying my 550X parts on line instead of threw them.

Boy that's good for HH's rep with that coming from a Hobby Town ( a authorized HH distributor).

[tomatwalden]

Originally Posted by TheQuixote

To compete blade will need to build something that will cause the top end smack pilots to go "Wow this is better than my..."

One problem they have is, if there is a part on the shelf ( Motor, servo, ESC ) they will have to use it.

And the other is they seem to have locked themselves into designs that aren't bad, they're just not competitive for smack flying. Looking at the 550x, from the specs it appears to be almost 4lbs heavier than an X5 with the weight lower on the frame. It is swinging 550mm blades and X5 is swinging 500's, but still, it's almost twice as heavy.

The 700's might be a different story, but right out of the gate the 550x looks like it would be dwarfed by the X5 in terms of smack performance.

Yep - exactly! The 700X can be bought as a bare bones kit however, without any electronics, but the TT E700 is cheaper, and a Blade just don't have the reputation yet in this space - which brings me back to my original point!

Originally Posted by TheQuixote

But the kit comes with an E-Flite Heli 700. I imagine James H changed out the servos as well.

The bare bones kit comes with nothing - not even main blades.

Point is, their 500 and up helicopters are positioned in kind of a weird place if they want to attract smack pilots. There not uniquely engineered and designed like Goblins, not KISS super light weight designs like the X5, and not cheaper than a T-Rex. They are nice helicopters ( I would look very closely at the 700 if I ever go up to that size ) but they just don't stand out in any meaningful way.

I do agree with the OP, maybe they need to focus a little more on getting pilots out to competitions to help their image. Just think there in an awkward place to attract those pilots.

Agree! I like my 550X, and my 700X, but I haven't seen a single 550X in competition, and the 700X hasn't exactly been wowing the crowds either. Like I say, Venlo (and XFC) were exceptions, but a single 700X was lost in the sea of mainstream "top end" marques.

[spykez]

Originally Posted by tomatwalden

Yep - exactly! The 700X can be bought as a bare bones kit however, without any electronics, but the TT E700 is cheaper, and a Blade just don't have the reputation yet in this space - which brings me back to my original point!
...

Do you think pros may be shying away from the blade because of better options? Or specific reasons?

I do not know enough of the blade 700 but can its drive train bear one of those crazy OP motors and gearing that smackheads like?

If that's not an issue, then in my mind, it's just marketing or failure of.

[tomatwalden]

To be honest, I think many if It most pros fly what they're paid to fly. There are a few who don't , but my impression is that they're the exception rather than the rule. I seem to recall for example a young chap who used to fly mikado because he swore blind it was the best for him. Then along came Align and a Trex. Do I think the trex is better than the logo? No, not really. I think Align paid more money!

I think if Blade want to succeed in this market sector, they need to rethink their marketing ...


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[TheQuixote]

Originally Posted by tomatwalden

... I think if Blade want to succeed in this market sector, they need to rethink their marketing...

They might need to rethink their entire business strategy because so far they've dodged a bullet with the T-Rex 150 and it's manufacturing issues.

They're entire line up after the nano's depends on the customer loyalty of new pilots. And almost everything from the nano to the 500x has some sort of serious issue. Blades gotten away with this because of good customer service and dominance in the micro sector, but if Align gets the 150 sorted out, the loyalty upgrade chain could be broken at a very early stage.

If that happens then suddenly everything needs to survive on it's own merits, and I don't think I've heard anyone say, "I would have have got a Gobbler, but the 600x just has the best customer service."

[spykez]

Maybe they should send someone the likes of Tareq a freebie. He's not paid by anyone AFAIK.

Maybe they have ?

Who knows...

I believe they're spending more promoting their small stuff. I guess now with the likes of WL TOYS and such with mqx clones, you can see where their r + d is going... nano qx and probably marketing. There's competition here. There's a whole plethora of small things that fly now.

Also multi s are easier to fly, I suspect that will be another battleground for these companies. Blade vs dji etc..

[Iskareot]

Originally Posted by spykez

Maybe they should send someone the likes of Tareq a freebie. He's not paid by anyone AFAIK.

Maybe they have ?

Who knows...

I believe they're spending more promoting their small stuff. I guess now with the likes of WL TOYS and such with mqx clones, you can see where their r + d is going... nano qx and probably marketing. There's competition here. There's a whole plethora of small things that fly now.

Also multi s are easier to fly, I suspect that will be another battleground for these companies. Blade vs dji etc..

Now there's a pilot I would like to see beat on the 700x stock... be very curious to see how well it held up to that beating.

I too am about 2 hours from HH -- we have 3 LHS's here that carry parts.. one orders, but is good, one has micro only couple parts, ONE has everything and stocks large and small all types of parts for the entire fleet of blade. SO pretty much we all go there or go between two for parts. Who knows what market that affects.

[Gladius]

Are the Pro series models really being marketed to hardcore 3D stick bangers though? If I were to buy a 700X, a prime factor would be price, combined with the convenience of having everything bundled together for that price. Our little microcosm on HF always seems to want the top of the line stuff, but I bet there are a ton of people that want a quality 700 sized machine for as cheap as they can get it. The important word in that sentence was quality, and the Pro line-up is Blade's answer to questions about their quality.

Are the Pro series helis actually as good as, or even superior to some of the "boutique" helis? Who's actually flown both and prefers their Blade, without throwing on the "for the price" qualifier?"

[BavarianRob]

Blade parts are more expensive as below, and are very similar to Goblin parts costs, I doubt any of the blade helis can match that level of performance and quality for the cost.

I know which one I'd choose!

700X main shaft £15.98 for 2
700E DFC main shaft £12.49 for 2

700X Carbon frame 1 side £59.99
700E DFC carbon frame 1 side £45.32

700X canopy £79.99
700E DFC canopy £52.72

550X main shaft £14.99 for 2
550 DFC main shaft £11.56 for 2

550X frame £93.49 for both sides
550 DFC frame £53.99 for both sides.

550X canopy £69.98
550DFC canopy £49.99


Let's pay a fortune for something that's just ok!

[GJacksonF3N]

There were 2 other pilots besides James that made it to XFC finals. But you would think HH would have the money to pay someone more than other companies. But I think the pilots go for a product they believe in. I am a sponsored drummer, but i signed with the product I believe the most in. The 700 x looks nice, but from watching the video of XFC it was hard for me to put the heli in the same class as gaui or sab when they flew one after the other. I think HH is on the way to producing great stuff, but they need to grab someone like a Jamie Robertson who has put Align back in the spotlight and how Nick put TT back in the top market.

[spykez]

I maintain my guess that Blade / HH's priority still might lie in the micro / submicro market like it used to do. Now with multi's and their own foray into it. That's another point.

Consider demand, like I said NO ONE is actively bringing in the 600-700 here. I mean, didn't Brian himself say the 3 bladed head was canned because of lack if demand?

Marketting is one way to generate demand. I guess they have other priorities.

[tomatwalden]

Originally Posted by BavarianRob

Blade parts are more expensive as below, and are very similar to Goblin parts costs, I doubt any of the blade helis can match that level of performance and quality for the cost.

I know which one I'd choose!

...

Let's pay a fortune for something that's just ok!

Rob, I don't think Blade Pro Series cost a fortune, nor do I think they are price-comparable to the Goblins. For example, I paid (all up) about £1100 for my Goblin 500. I paid £760 (all up) for my 700X. I definitely got a ridiculously good deal from Midland, and that's not their normal price, but the 700X (which is HV) is price-comparable to the 700E DFC HV super-combo. Cheap? - no, a "fortune"? - far from it.

As to which I'd choose, honestly, actually having owned both Align AND Blade - I'd choose Blade again for a number of reasons.

1/. I found the Blades to be more structurally sound than the Aligns, and a whole lot less complicated. Finish in places was disappointing - notably the canopies, but the main components I found to be superior to Align.

2/. Align force you down the DFC route. I simply do not want DFC! Blade offer the next best alternative in my view.

Have you actually SEEN a 550X or 700X "in the flesh" ? I know a great many on the UK forums knock Blade without ever actually having seen one (beyond a 450X). Cool if you have - but if you haven't - they are worth a look - with an open mind!

Tom