600e Pro Tail Blow Outs

[mqd100psu]

Awesome, TY for responding, yes that is what I was thinking exactly plus it is easier to see getting bright yellow or orange. $11 > $24 =).

Originally Posted by Commodore8888

Can confirm the KBDD blades work great for being 102mm. They appear to have the same surface area, haven't measured yet. Plus side is if they get chewed up at all from minor tail grindings or stained real bad it's only 11$.

PS, try their paddles. They rock.

[Dino Spadaccini]

Originally Posted by Tenguru

Unreal.

the box is being updated and the blades where test above 2500

[raptor50luvver]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

I think he sold his pro for a Logo, so maybe some extra justification?

I bought another logo 600 but also another 600e pro now just bought the kde motor mount and the modified auto gear and 600n front tt gears.

Gonna run a12t pinion from a 700e on the pro with the high tail ratio and around 2150 on the head,I run the logo at the same speed so look forward to comparing them.

I can change logo packs in under a minute easy but for sure the 600e tray is great idea.

[Helico-pteron]

I'm flying right now, well between flights really.

1st flight: 2250HS gov'd, stock tails.

This flight left nothing to be desired IMHO. The stock tails don't really hold true, but it holds.

2nd flight: 2250 gov'd, 105s

Much better tail authority in hurricanes and reversals. Head speed is still lack luster. Decreased gain by 15 points.

I have two more set of packs to fly out, but I will go back to my curves. It just flies better at 2300+ whether you like it or not.

Most novice pilots will be content at 2250 though, it his fairly tame.

[OnTheSnap]

2250 pounds IMO. Maybe not if your not running much pitch. Or if you have super heavy packs. Def not a novice headspeed IMO. Try 13/14 degrees of pitch at 2250. It should get your blood flowing. It's always a mixture of headspeed and pitch to get the desired performance. The sweet spot on traditional 600's was 2200-2250 with 13 degrees of pitch or so. Alternately you could run 2350 with 12. But now your burning more power in a hover. Hence shorter flight times. I believe Align's philosophy is more h/s, less pitch. This makes lots of sense when you take a governor out of the equation. But is very inefficient when you commit to running a governor, where a lower h/s with more pitch thrives.

Tail doesn't hold for me at 2250 with 95mm, 13 pitch, when I push it hard. And it tends to break free at unexpected moments. It's the worse part. Reality is it has 15% less thrust. Good enough for moderately hard flying, just the limits are different which you may or may not ever approach with your flight routine.

2350 is fun, but 2250 gets it done. Also note I have vBar gov which is an order of magnitude better than any ESC gov. So my perception may be warped a bit there. Your 2350 is prob like my 2200 with Vbar gov.

[Helico-pteron]

I agree with you, I am so used to my style that I forget that a novice will be running much lower HS.

I also agree that you have the upper hand on the gov. IMHO the CC gov is terrible and I my gain was too low I think. It just wasnt keeping up at times. Being used to curves were power is on demand I will have to get used to the gov. I will also add that I am running an 8S system with an Xera motor which is a 710-2y on 14t pinion.

Using curves the heli is ballistic through all maneuvers at 13/13. Running curves with my setup brings a steady 23xx run through the entire flight.

That being said, I could keep all my flying fairly clean with this gov set up. Aileron tactics were without loss which is my standard test maneuver to tell whether it's cabable or not.

I'm not sold on using 105s, though, as they are fairly close to the mains. I will go back to using the 95s and increase my gain FWIW. I'm also using the BeastX and I can utilize the precomp setting as well to combat the shallow blow outs during heavy pitch changes.

I'll report back as new info surfaces.

[trainwreck]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

2250

2350 is fun, but 2250 gets it done. Also note I have vBar gov which is an order of magnitude better than any ESC gov. So my perception may be warped a bit there. Your 2350 is prob like my 2200 with Vbar gov.

Ok now them are fighting words snap!!! lol Jk. But what makes the Vbar gov the best out there? I've toyed with it but preferred my kontronik gov over the vbar gov.

And to pull one of your moves, why is XFC champion Jamie Robertson using the kontronik gov other than the vbar gov?

Sooo smooth and efficient it's ridiculous. No tweaking, it just works flawlessly!

I hate the price tag of the kontronik and would love to get the vbar gov to out preform or even match my kontronik gov. What's the secrete?

[OnTheSnap]

Ah, now we're off topic aren't we. The thing that tickles me is the throttle precomp. Having the headspeed increase going into a hard stop makes me giggle.

Don't get me wrong, Kontronik is just sick awesome. It's been the standard since it was released and got better over time. But it is still reactive, not proactive. It's still silly good, just not as good as a proactive governor tied into collective and cyclic control loops.

Oh, and to take your argument a step further, guys still win 3D masters with 700N's (or even use soggy Castle governors like Nick Maxwell). All this silly e-power stuff with near perfect governors, 65C packs and insane headspeed isn't needed to compete at the highest levels. But we still love it. And the nitro guys are going power nuts too with the ys120. We're all sick.

There is a point of ridiculousness though. I'm still waiting for the guy that makes a strong argument for 2500. At the end of all this when the dust settles Align needs to figure out if this head speed target of 2500 was the right marketing call for US/Europe markets. I still feel it was the wrong decision since no one seems to be flying it that way. We're all busy setting up gov mode. You're stretching headspeeds a little bit, but you're still a wide margin off from 2500.

[Stevin]

Sorry for sounding ignorant but I have a few basic questions. I just ordered this heli and should be recieve=ing it in a few days, as o right now I fly a trex 250se with sk720 and a trex 500esp. I am what I would call an experienced noobie. I fly sport and light aerobatics after a short time of flying. Since I have only been flying smaller models I really dont understand all that much about the govenor. Am I correct in saying the govenor is the same thing as the seed control? Or is the govenor an entirely seperate component? If it is seperate is this something I need? Another question I have is how do you know the head speed your flying at, do you all have a tachometer or is there a way to select it in the 3gx software?

At the end of the day I would really like to know will I be fine flying with the tail blades out of the box? and also what kind of flight time should I expect out of this helicopter. I have been very happy with my 500esp which gives me 7-8 minutes in idle up with a 3000mah battery. I have gotten as much as 11 minutes flying regular. Thanks for all the great onpinions and info in this thread.

[felborn]

Originally Posted by Stevin

At the end of the day I would really like to know will I be fine flying with the tail blades out of the box? and also what kind of flight time should I expect out of this helicopter. I have been very happy with my 500esp which gives me 7-8 minutes in idle up with a 3000mah battery. I have gotten as much as 11 minutes flying regular. Thanks for all the great onpinions and info in this thread.

Govenor tries to keep the same headspeed trueout the flight, so you can keep the headspeed on say 2200 trueout the flight even when pushing it during tic-tocs or so.

The stock tail works great for me, even doing basic 3D like hurricans, funnels, rainbows, tictocs and whatnot, I had a flight today in 25M/s wind and even during hard backwards flight I had no issues with the tail. I think those that have problem with the tail are pushing it way harder than most of us, and for basic sports flying theres no need to change anything.

I'm getting 6:30 of fligh of half decent 3D flying on 3300mAh 25C Nano-tech packs.

[Helico-pteron]

It's not gov precomp, but tail precomp. You can set an amount of pitch the tail will increase during collective and cyclic maneuvers. You can set one or the other or both.

I don't see any reason why it would need 2500.

[OnTheSnap]

Originally Posted by Helico-pteron

It's not gov precomp, but tail precomp. You can set an amount of pitch the tail will increase during collective and cyclic maneuvers. You can set one or the other or both.

I don't see any reason why it would need 2500.

Off topic again, butthe vBar gov has precomp for the motor the same way it has it for the tail. You can adjust how much feed forward throttle you have with collective or cyclic inputs.

http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1051

[Helico-pteron]

Not off topic really OTS, we're discussing all this involved with fixing this tail issue.

[smaze17]

Originally Posted by felborn

Govenor tries to keep the same headspeed trueout the flight, so you can keep the headspeed on say 2200 trueout the flight even when pushing it during tic-tocs or so.

The stock tail works great for me, even doing basic 3D like hurricans, funnels, rainbows, tictocs and whatnot, I had a flight today in 25M/s wind and even during hard backwards flight I had no issues with the tail. I think those that have problem with the tail are pushing it way harder than most of us, and for basic sports flying theres no need to change anything.

I'm getting 6:30 of fligh of half decent 3D flying on 3300mAh 25C Nano-tech packs.

This is a great post!! Very informative!

Thanks felborn

S

[stevehof]

For all of you guys using 105mm blades, THEY WILL TOUCH the main blades. I got some of the new 102mm KBDD tail blades and while they are actually only 1 to 1.5 mm shorter than the Align 105's, you can flex the main blades enough to make them touch by about a mm. So, the 105's will certainly touch too. (I also bought the Align 105's and measured the difference with a 3mm screw through the blade grip holes).

Admittedly, it would take some seriously hard moves with the head bogged a bit but, you know, Murphy's Law....I'm going to put them on my band sander and take a couple more mm off. They have a flat tip so with a little care and balancing if needed, this should work fine.

[OnTheSnap]

I can't get my 105's to touch. And after 100 flights of stick banging, there are no issues.

Are you using the Align 600mm blades, or something like Edge 603's?

[stevehof]

Originally Posted by OnTheSnap

I can't get my 105's to touch. And after 100 flights of stick banging, there are no issues.

Are you using the Align 600mm blades, or something like Edge 603's?

Kit 3G blades and it is pretty easy to flex the blades and make them touch. They will only touch on the trailing edge tip and it is only by 1 to 1.5mm but...Is your boom in all the way or did you back it out a couple of mm to relieve the TT bearings? The reason I ask is that I did not build this ship. I had a friend build my 600P because I couldn't make the time for a few weeks and I was looking forward to flying the dang thang. I'm guessing the boom on my 600P and on the other 600P ships where the guys are saying they can touch the 105's are pushed all the way into the gear case. If I back it out 2mm I'd be fine. Maybe I'll do that instead of sanding the tip of tail blades. In any case, I don't think you can safely say that 105mm blades will clear in all cases....Opps, I see that the boom is pinned. If the hole for that is pre-drilled, my theory just went out the window...In any case, the 102mm KDBB blades I'm using are actually 1.5mm shorter than the Align 105s so, I can't figure how your 105s clear.

[Weule]

With Edge Blades its a disaster waiting to happen and we've already seen pictures of the stock blades touching under flex...

[raptor50luvver]

My 105s would also touch the stock mains but only by 1mm,I would never use them on this model now,only 95s.

[rknaub]

Been flying for a while with stock 600 main blades, and Edge 105 tail blades. Haven't seen a problem yet, but will check a little closer next time. Of course I do very light 3D at the moment, but I have noticed the tail holds so much better when I pitch pump.