new motor in test phase

[Toxic Al]

I"ve decided to start testing a new mod for the 231. It is a stage 3 mod. It will include a completely new crank and revised porting. Carey Shurley will do the initial testing as will John Garst.I have been reluctant to try any new motors mainly because of the cost and to many issues with gas in general.If the motor is to be released it will be more expensive which I regret but it is much more expensive to produce and built to order not mass release.The motor is extremely smooth and much more torquey. I have decided not to release the pipe, main reason tuning. the pipe creates more issues with tuning if you don't understand how to tune the needles and from what I have seen most people are not ready for it. If you guys are not interested in a new motor from me let me know because it is very time consuming and it seems that the demand for my engine mods near vanished with no explaination. I need to know the reasons why and maybe I will understand and maybe help you all out. Peace, Toxic Al

[gavin673]

Al,
All I can say is sign me up for one. You definately make the best motors out there. I would think the slowdown in demand might be seasonal (winter), or maybe an increasing popularity of electrics. Miniature hasn't done a really great job promoting the spectra-G either, which I think is a shame because it is such a great platform. But, If someone is going to get a gas motor, they would be foolish not to get a toxxic.

Gavin

[MikeB]

Toxic Al,

I'm looking for a engine for my Predator right now. Basically these are my choices: Stock 231, TRM or a Hansen Modified 231/ 260. The stock 231 is said to be fine for many applications, if you tune in correctly and have the oil ratio within reason it will be smooth. The modified engines, yours and the Hansens are said to be smoother with more torque and Hp, with the Hansen 260 having the most torque/Hp with the smoothness of a stock 231. The modified 231's have more torque and hp than the than the stock 231, but not as much as a Hansen 260, however, they are smoother than the 260 and stock 231.

You are competing directly with the stock 231 and Hansen 231/260. What advantage is it for me to buy your engine over the Hansen? Don't answer that question, just think about it. In the world of real world usage, I have never heard that either the TRM engine or the Hansen 231 have a performance edge. However, it seems the Hansen 260 does have a edge in performance but not smoothness.

If you're going to do new modifications on a 231 it will have to have a significant performance increase than what is available now. If it doesn't have the torque/hp of a 260, then what's the point. I would want you to validate your claims of performance, which is even more expensive. If the engine is not competitively priced your market will be very small. The Gasser market is growing, but can it support a 500+ dollar engine?

[Toxic Al]

In my opinion the 231 make just as much power as the 260 maybe not as much torque but the difference is so small. the mods I do to my engine increase both torque and hp and i can produce more power than I do now but most don't need it.I don't want to bad mouth anyone but I would put my motors up against hansons 260anyday.I have a 260 mod engine that rips and rips hard but the vibes are to much at the rpm the spectra g is ran at so tim from MA does not want to sell it . the 231 prototype motor is in test phase because of people asking me to produce it, but have not because of the cost.the new proto has even more torque and it is super smooth but if people don't want it I won't make.I also will dissagree with statement that gasser is growing in fact i have seen it taper off at this point. I have never made any claims of hp gains on my motors MA has in there add. I don't know how people think there is an atvantage of power with Hanson's 260 when
most people don't have a dyno to check the engines performance. If you want to know what my engines are like ask John Garst, Carey Shurley , Bill Meador and Henry Caldwell. Peace, Toxic Al

[MikeB]

Toxic Al,

I can't dispute anything you say. I'm just repeating what I read on the forums, which we all know is suspect at best. Without putting engines head to head on a dyno, there is no way substantiate claimed values. There are some people who claim the 260 seems to put out more power, but this is only their opinion. There are so many variables on perceived performance, with setup, engine tuning, blades, etc; it is easy to believe one's engine may have more performance than another, when, in fact, it does not.

I would love to have one of your prototype engines, in fact, I wouldn't mine having one of your current engines. I'm in the early stages of evaluation of engine selection. I've read either a direct comment or an indirect comment form most of the people on your list, that praise you and your engines. Your reputation doesn't get any better and your product speaks for itself.

But, I still have to decide what is the best for my application: cost vs. utility. The fact that you're accessible is a big plus. And yes, the Gasser market may not be growing, but it's going to grow by one more. I can tune an engine better than I can figure out battery technology.

[Toxic Al]

Mike, I am sorry if I seem to come off brash. I am struggling to stay in this market mainly because of the electric market, but I will say that I try to build motors that people need meaning they are tuned and built for application and usage not just raw power. Gas motors can be harder to tune for nitro only guys because of the heat these motors generate, they are not forgiving when they go lean for extended periods but when they are broken in they are usually easy to deal with. the proto was just flown for the first time and carey said it started real easy and settled intoa nice idle. we will keep you guys up to date with the progress. I will say this if you have a motor already or are planning to buy one it can be upgraded to the stage 3 spec if all goes well. Peace, Toxic Al

[ClayK]

I would be interested in upgrading my current TRM231 to a stage 3.

[Billme]

I can tell you all Al makes the finest engines available to the gasser pilots...he has mastered the 231 into a real engine... I can't wait to see how the latest does
Regards,
Bill Meador

[Toxic Al]

Thanks Bill for the kind words it is very appreciated. you da Man !! Carey is testing the new motor now but it is to early to tell how good it will be. I will keep you posted. Peace, Toxic Al

[Nasscar]

I'm interested in the stage 3. Please pm me with price and ETA . . . I will hold out from ordering my Spectra G until this motor has been released.

Nas,

[knockers]

Toxic AL

I just won a Predator at MayDay in Sulphur La. A friend told me I should send it to you and have it modified. What's the routine?

Thanks Billy Knox
Orange, TX

[Dano8592]

Toxic Al

I would be interested in one of your stage 3 motors also I need info on how to get one Please. E-mail me at dauton@bellsouth.net

[Toxic Al]

Guys, sorry I have not been repling on my forum. I don't get notified when someone posts anymore. the stage 3 motor will be available the end of november. the easiest way to reach me is by phone at 407-461-9225 or by email toxic.al@toxicmarine.com. Again I apologize for not getting back to you guys. Peace, Toxic Al