Flybars dead?

[F3ver]

Are flybarred helis a thing of the past, I just crashed my T Rex 450 w flybar and I am unsure if I should fix it or just fly the blade 450x I just picked up.

[Felix the cat]

Originally Posted by F3ver

Are flybarred helis a thing of the past, I just crashed my T Rex 450 w flybar and I am unsure if I should fix it or just fly the blade 450x I just picked up.

I have three DFC's and currently building a flybar 450 for skill honing.

[Ron_R]

I have a T-Rex 500e (FB) and love it. Super stable, parts are available and it's fun to wrench on. A blast fly and learn with, too.

[Varelco]

They won't disappear forever, as there will always be people who don't wish to invest in converting their heli or just like the idea of flybars. It's definitely not main stream anymore though, evolution of the hobby, its been phased out just like mechnical gyros etc.

[CompleteDestruction]

I like FB way more than FBL. Although I am trying to give FBL another try... once I get the gyro tuned in I will give it another go.

I have 4 FB and 2 FBL (one of them is a micro)

[sierracharlie]

I will fly mine as long as I can get parts. I have a Blade 450 flying now, a Thunder Tiger 325se in kit form and a Thunder Tiger 550s in ARF form. So more FB helicopters in my future.

[F3ver]

Thanks for the input peeps I think I'll fix it and fly it.

[Carpetbombing]

The important thing to understand is that with flybarless, you're flying the FBL controller more than you're flying the helicopter. Ease of FBL setup and how the heli feels in the air has EVERYTHING to do with the FBL controller. Cheap-performing FBL controllers (Align 3GX, etc) are so annoying and marginally performing that they've scared a lot of people away from FBL.

For entry-size helis, 425mm and under, a used, well set-up flybarred heli will fly great and cost half as much as any FBL heli worth having. With a few limitations, flybars still work great, like they always have. Flipping one around, flybars have the 'benefit' of requiring constant small corrections that FBL doesn't, keeping you on your toes.

Quality FBL is amazing. To me, the overall fine tuning ability and active governor is absolutely worth it. The added flight time is a bonus. Now that I've tried Skookum FBL controllers I just can't go back. That being said, I have a flybarred Trex 450 and Trex 500 that I don't ever plan to sell. They're still fun to fly.

Flybars aren't dead. Neither are film cameras, tube amps, and vinyl records, but they're not so common anymore.

[suthae]

I've found a new field, dedicated to helis.
And there are more FB helis than FBL.

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by Carpetbombing

tube amps, and vinyl records, but they're not so common anymore.

Tube amps for guitar rock are the norm. Even now. Vinyl records have never gone away and likely won't.

[jbrandt]

Seeing as how people still drive carbureted vehicles, I think the flybar is anything but extinct. But it is becoming less popular as a whole. I'm sure there will always be a few manufacturers out there that will sell flybar helis and/or parts, but it'll be more of a "niche" market. At first, 1 or 2 guys sold FBL systems, and everyone sold flybars. Now you can't swing a dead cat in a hobby shop and not hit a FBL controller.

Anyone fervently defending flybars because electronics are "unreliable" still flying mechanical gyros?? Probably not... Just sayin'...

Mechanical systems can't adapt to changing environments like EFI can adjust for different air densities and automatically adjust your car's fuel mixture for optimum performance (for example). On the other hand, you generally can't just "fix it yourself" like replacing a float bowl or a jet in a carb, and have to go to a dealer for servicing if something goes wrong.

There are advantages and disadvantages to electronics. But it seems like the technology is reaching a level of maturity that is making the disadvantages fewer, and the advantages greater.

The main weakness I think with the electronics is the algorithms that dictate control, not the physical complexity and miniaturization of electronics. The modeling of real world physics and making certain assumptions of what the helicopter "should" be doing given certain inputs is the weakness. As with anything, the longer this technology is out, the more these algorithms are refined. I think the hobby is pretty solidly "there" in terms of the maturity of the technology.

[Imzzaudae]

I fly both, Love FBL but Prefer my old Fly Bar helicopters

[Smoggie]

There is a certain beauty in complex mechanical mechanisms, compared to the clinical soulless efficiency of electronic 'gizmos'. Take a look at wrist watches, in any objective analysis a quartz watch trumps a mechanical watch hands down... yet all the most expensive and desirable watches are mechanical?

Personally i got into helis when the FBL revolution had already taken place, so for me the flybar really has no attraction at all. The FBL controller does the job it is there to do better in every objective way. These days they are also cheaper as you can pick up an excellent (all be it cloned) FBL controller for about $25, you would struggle to get the component for a mechanical FB for that, then you still need a tail gyro.

[MS60]

Yes - dead.

[CompleteDestruction]

Originally Posted by farkas

Yes - dead.

[Felix the cat]

They have reciprocal advantages over each other:

FBL has solid on-rail flights, less parts count, higher headspeed ect. However electrical / mechanical issues will induce all kinds of weird stuff and a rather "scary experience". Not for newbs. as tip-over on spool up is a frequent symptom for novice flyers on FBL.

FB has not so solid flight, much higher parts count, lower headspeed ect. Even though with a higher part count, it's more forgiving on electrical / mechanical issues. FB's make much better pilots when learning.

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by Felix the cat

FB has not so solid flight, much higher parts count, lower headspeed ect. Even though with a higher part count, it's more forgiving on electrical / mechanical issues. FB's make much better pilots when learning.

Why not so solid flight? Mine flies solid as a rock! IF it's set up correctly, it flies a dream.

I'm also not so sure about the forgiving part. Once again, IF it's set up correctly, it fleis a dream, but if not, errrr it can seriously cause problems.

Regardless of the FB vs FBL discussion, I think learning to set one up should be part of the process. Much like driving a manual transmission car. It's not needed, but sure can come in handy.

[Felix the cat]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Ron_R

Why not so solid flight? Mine flies solid as a rock! IF it's set up correctly, it flies a dream.

So do mines but I find FB kind of "slippery" on cyclic, invert FBL and it just sits there. FB, well it's kind of different.

I'm also not so sure about the forgiving part. Once again, IF it's set up correctly, it fleis a dream, but if not, errrr it can seriously cause problems.

Glitchy servo on FB will usually produce vibration, which can be handled / landed. On FBL, depending on your gain, you'll have the gyro trying to correct and you trying to correct the gyro.

Regardless of the FB vs FBL discussion, I think learning to set one up should be part of the process. Much like driving a manual transmission car. It's not needed, but sure can come in handy.

Agreed, learn on a stick, and auto is a breeze. Not so the other way around.

[#1RCHelifan]

The old FB vs FBL debate thread comes around every now and then. While FBL technology has improved by leaps and bounds over the years there is still a viable market for FB helis. Typically, once a FBL software has been setup correctly along with the helis mechanical setup, these systems are easier to fly and will stay on its projected flight path until input from ym the transmitter. In addition, fbl helis are more stable in winds than compared to FB helis.

[Ron_R]

Originally Posted by #1RCHelifan

In addition, fbl helis are more stable in winds than compared to FB helis.

Truth right there.