castle edge lite 50 setup 450H motor

[bundydeity]

ive had my castle ESC for 2-3 months in the box, thought id finally set it up, install that and my 450H motor
initially ill be using the eflite 12 tooth pinion, but later on will swap that out for lynx slanted pinion and gears
i have never setup an esc in my life, so naturally have a few questions so far. i have watched some vids on setup and followed another setup file i found for the 450x, so i shouldn't be far off..
these are my settings so far:
################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Saturday, February 22, 2014
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Hex55: 85
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: High (100)
Direction: Forward (*)
Current Limiting: Normal (70A) (*)
Brake Strength: 0%, Disabled (*)
BEC Voltage: 5.0V (*)
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Motor Timing: Low (0)
Data Log Enabled: 511
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: Medium (5) (*)
Governor Gain: Low (15) (*)
Initial Spool-Up Rate: Medium (5) (*)
Head Speed Change Rate: High (8)
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: High
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.1000
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 11.6667
Vehicle Setup - Pinion: 12
Vehicle Setup - Spur: 140
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3600
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 6
Desired Head Speed 1: 2305
Desired Head Speed 2: 2400
Desired Head Speed 3: 2804
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.2 Volts/Cell (*)
PWM Rate: 8 Khz
Sample Frequency: 1 Sample / Sec (*)
Voltage Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Current Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Link Live Enable: Disabled (*)
Auxiliary Wire Mode: Disabled (*)
Automatic Data Reset: Disabled (100%) (*)

[bundydeity]

so, my questions are;

1) in throttle section, theres an option for governor mode: simple, governor low, governor high and set rpm
what do each of these do and which one should i be on? initially it was on governor low, yet it stated my headspeeds were too high

2) also theres an option for governor gain; low, medium, high, custom - again what do these do and which one should i be on?

3) headspeed. the file i copied from (here: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=584116 ) showed headspeeds of 2500, 3000, 3100 - for now i have mine set lowe, yet after some googling i discovered the stock headspeed is apparently much higher between 3100 - 3600 (see post: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=394391 - post number 8)
what is the best headspeed with the 450h motor for decent battery life and similar response or even improved over stock setup?

4) cut-off - copying fooferdoggies setup, my current limiting is at 70a (normal) - i cant find the link but i thought i read somewhere on HF that this should be disabled for helis? might have been in the 550x forum. what should i have this set as?

ok i have a few more questions but will ask these a bit later... thanks

[Nelsonisms]

1.) "Set RPM" governor is the way to go on a Castle ESC. You'll have to tell it about your gearing and motor but then you can simply program in the RPM you want it to govern without any guess work. BTW it's a 6 pole motor.

2.) Start with low. The higher you go the more possibility to get a tail kick on heavy collective input. Raise it slowly and retest, but the low setting works decently on the 450X unless you're flying it really hard. Don't mess with it unless you feel like the governor isn't keeping up.

3.) It depends on the pinion you're using. The stock headspeed averages around 3200 throughout the flight. Put on a 13T pinion and you can govern to 3200 RPM. I'd do 3200, 3000 & 2800 with a 13T pinion. You should still get around 5 minutes with that configuration. Use Mr. Mel's Headspeed calculator to help you estimate headspeed with a given pinion or to choose a pinion for a targeted headspeed. It has an option for the Castle governor (choose Castle 3.0).

4.) Set it to insensitive or disabled.

[bundydeity]

thanks some really helpful info there

Originally Posted by Nelsonisms

3.) It depends on the pinion you're using. The stock headspeed averages around 3200 throughout the flight. Put on a 13T pinion and you can govern to 3200 RPM. I'd do 3200, 3000 & 2800 with a 13T pinion. You should still get around 5 minutes with that configuration. Use Mr. Mel's Headspeed calculator to help you estimate headspeed with a given pinion or to choose a pinion for a targeted headspeed. It has an option for the Castle governor (choose Castle 3.0).

i'll be initially using the eflite 12 tooth pinion (EFLM60454), i dont have a 13 tooth pinion except for the lynx slant gears which i dont want to install just yet.
i checked out the headspeed calculator, says my max headspeed is 2928, so should i go for 2500, 2800, 2900?
am i going to notice this lower headspeed, will it make inverted flight etc harder?

[Nelsonisms]

Originally Posted by bundydeity

thanks some really helpful info there



i'll be initially using the eflite 12 tooth pinion (EFLM60454), i dont have a 13 tooth pinion except for the lynx slant gears which i dont want to install just yet.
i checked out the headspeed calculator, says my max headspeed is 2928, so should i go for 2500, 2800, 2900?
am i going to notice this lower headspeed, will it make inverted flight etc harder?

It'll still be perfectly flyable in the range. The 2500 is going to be pretty slow, but the other two will be plenty for sport flight and maybe even some light 3D stuff. It just really starts to get more aggressive above 3000. On the plus side you'll certainly get a little more flight time with that setup.

[jadewarrior]

Before you do anything regarding setting up a Castle ESC in SET RPM mode, you have to set the throttle endpoints, which can be a bit tricky with the AR7200BX until you understand what's going on. There are some pretty good video tutorials on Youtube and some are even from Castle. Much better than trying to type it all out here.

I run the H450 motor, Phoenix Edge Lite 50 with the Lynx slant main gear and 13T pinion. 3000, 3100 and 3300rpm goverened. Flies great!

[bundydeity]

thanks!
i only mentioned 2500 as a 'takeoff/landing' mode, but its probably not really needed, maybe ill up that to 2700
more flight time would be good, however id prefer the power. ill see how it goes, if i dont like it ill probably just install the lynx slant gears and pinion with 13tooth as mentioned.
i knew about the endpoints, was getting most of the settings right first, then will do that last once i plug it into the beastx, re-check settings and go. trying to minimize downtime!
another few questions:

a) headspeed change rate - is this the switch between headspeeds/modes, how fast it will change? whats recommended?
b) initial spool up rate - i take it this is the setting for slowing down the spool up once intitiated, rather then aggressively booting up to full power? if so, whats best for 450x - medium or low?
c) under the motor tab, what does the timing setting do and what should i set it to?
d) PWM rate - what does this do and what should i set it to?

thanks, that should cover everything

[Nelsonisms]

Originally Posted by bundydeity

thanks!
i only mentioned 2500 as a 'takeoff/landing' mode, but its probably not really needed, maybe ill up that to 2700
more flight time would be good, however id prefer the power. ill see how it goes, if i dont like it ill probably just install the lynx slant gears and pinion with 13tooth as mentioned.
i knew about the endpoints, was getting most of the settings right first, then will do that last once i plug it into the beastx, re-check settings and go. trying to minimize downtime!
another few questions:

a) headspeed change rate - is this the switch between headspeeds/modes, how fast it will change? whats recommended?
b) initial spool up rate - i take it this is the setting for slowing down the spool up once intitiated, rather then aggressively booting up to full power? if so, whats best for 450x - medium or low?
c) under the motor tab, what does the timing setting do and what should i set it to?
d) PWM rate - what does this do and what should i set it to?

thanks, that should cover everything

a) It's the speed at which it switches headspeeds and it's also the speed of the fast spoolup if you have "autorotation enable" checked. As a side note, don't check "autorotaton enable" It's an advanced feature that requires some special radio calibration that you're probably not ready for at this time. Medium is just as well. You can always experiment with it. It's more important when you're using the autorotation bailout feature since you want to tune it so you don't strip gears when you do the fast spoolup from a blade stop.

b) This is the slow spool up rate. I like medium, but you can experiment to find the one you like best.

c) This ESC autocalibrates for timing. It's not the same as timing on other ESCs. This setting is just an adjustment in a narrow range of what it automatically selects for timing. I normally set it to low since it's the most efficient. Only increase it if you feel like you need more power at the expense of increased motor heat.

d) Start with 8khz. That's a pretty standard rate for these motors. The higher this rate the hotter the ESC will get.

[bundydeity]

thanks a lot! im almost there. im looking forward to a cooler ESC & motor for back to back flights, at the moment the stock motor & esc gets a bit warm, so i stop for a few mins inbetween.

how does this look:

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Sunday, February 23, 2014
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Hex55: 85
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: High (100)
Direction: Forward (*)
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Strength: 0%, Disabled (*)
BEC Voltage: 5.0V (*)
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Motor Timing: Low (0)
Data Log Enabled: 1023
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: Medium (5) (*)
Governor Gain: Low (15) (*)
Initial Spool-Up Rate: Medium (5) (*)
Head Speed Change Rate: High (8)
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Fixed
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.1000
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 11.667
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3600
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 6
Desired Head Speed 1: 2700
Desired Head Speed 2: 2804
Desired Head Speed 3: 2902
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.2 Volts/Cell (*)
PWM Rate: 8 Khz
Sample Frequency: 1 Sample / Sec (*)
Voltage Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Current Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Link Live Enable: Disabled (*)
Auxiliary Wire Mode: Disabled (*)
Automatic Data Reset: Disabled (100%) (*)

[xenophobe]

Ok, I've been watching this thread with great curiosity because I have a Castle 50 Lite that I'm about to configure on my 450x.

So, the only thing I would need to change to this setup file (on post #9) is the Motor KV to 4200 and make sure I have the proper gear ratio specified?

Also probably need to change BEC voltage to 6 for the Savox servos... other stuff like spool up to low... am I understanding this correctly?

[bundydeity]

Yeah I think there should be a sticky on the 450x forum for castle esc setup seems to be most common aftermarket esc

[Nelsonisms]

It's a good idea to set your fixed endpoints as well, but I've actually got away without doing it before.

There are two ways to do it. One involves using a separate battery or ESC to pre-power the AR7200BX and one involves rebinding the AR7200BX a few times during the procedure. I prefer the later since I can do it without any additional hardware. There are some steps here on Helifreak for this somewhere, but I typed up a revised version for my own reference a while back. It's at home, but I can post it up later tonight.

[jadewarrior]

If one is going to enable the auto bailout feature or run SET RPM for governing, setting the endpoints are a must. Not sure about running in simple governor mode. My preference is to use a 4 cell AA pack I made up from a plastic battery holder from Radio Shack and an old servo lead. There are good video tutorials on Youtube. If in doubt, call Castle Creations. I've never waited long on hold and they are super helpful. They're located in Kansas, so no funny accents to deal with, either.

[FlyNmonkeyNutz423]

Here is a link that helped me HUGE on the end points....
[ame]http://youtu.be/Erg1KGakEew[/ame]
I have a few others too that will completely help with the process

[foxracing515151]

what does setting the end points actually do on the technical side?? if your running a flat throttle curve how would it actually matter??

[Nelsonisms]

Basically you want your transmitter to be calibrated with the ESC such that the low throttle position is the exact low throttle position the ESC expects and vice versa with the high position. Problems can occur if these values are too far out of sync. It's really more a problem if you transmitter's values are constrained too narrow. Imagine that low throttle on the transmitter wasn't low enough to actually shut down the motor. I've never seen it be too much of a problem with Spektrum transmitters (at 100% travel) and Castle ESCs. The endpoints are usually such that the transmitters range is actually a little greater than the ESC expects so you don't really notice it except in certain special circumstances. If you enable the autorotation bailout that is a special circumstance that actually alters the endpoints from the ESCs perspective so it's essential that you understand that if you enable that feature. As far as the "set rpm" governor it works like this...slot 1 is for throttle input values from 1% up to 49%, slot 2 is 50% up to 99% and slot 3 is above 99%. So typically you use slot 1 = 30%, slot 2 = 70% & slot 3 = 100%. Slots 1 and 2 will generally fall within those ranges if the calibration isn't just way off. But you can see that if the high side calibration were too low that it might not ever see 100%.

If you're running a flat thottle curve it might just mean the percentages aren't exact. Most people would never notice it unless, like I mentioned before, that the low side was overly contstrained and the motor wouldn't shut down at low throttle position. But I've personally never seen that happen with Spektrum transmitters (at 100 travel) and Castle ESCs.

Anyways, it's just a good idea to go ahead and do it when you install the ESC. You only have to do it once and then you'll know it's all good. The only other time you'd need to do it is if you ever decide to play around with autorotation bailout.

Oops... I promised I would post my method and I neglected to do so. I will do that this evening. The above method in the video works too, but I personally use a different method that I find easier to deal with once you have it down since it doesn't require a separate power source.

[foxracing515151]

Yea I used the one from the video above, I was originally looking at other videos that say start out at 50/50 before you plug in your receiver and I couldnt get the esc to go into the setup mode or whatever you call it. Leaving my throttle channel at 100/100 than connecting my receiver than lowering to 50/50 was what you gotta do at least with a dx6i. I would like to see your other method tho ill be doing this again shortly with 450x and 50 lite.

[bundydeity]

from what i can gather, the end points once set on the castle ESC don't change if you change the receiver or re-bind to the ar7200bx... right?

if so, i have 2 spare standalone receivers i got with my dx8, might be easier to hook that up to the esc, power it up, set end points, then chuck the esc on the ar7200bx..
im not sure if changing the receiver will affect these settings though, as its the receiver itself that receives the throttle signals etc and relays them to ESC?

[Nelsonisms]

Ok, so here is the method to set the endpoints and optionally configure autorotation bailout without the use of a secondary power source. I based it on some information in the following thread, but I've modified it since that information was specific to the DX7 and was overly verbose.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=447947

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Before you start, remove your rotor blades and tail blades!
- Set Flight Mode to Norm/FM1
- Set Throttle Curve for Norm/FM1 to linear (0,25,50,75,100)
- Set Throttle Curve for ST-1/FM2 to (70,70,70,70,70)
- Set Throttle Curve for ST-2/FM3 to (100,100,100,100,100)
- Set Travel Adjust for Throttle to H=0, L=0
- Battery unplugged
- Radio off
- Insert Bind plug
- Plug battery in
- Turn on and Bind transmitter
- Remove Bind plug
- Unplug battery
- Radio off
- Radio on
- Plug battery in
- Move throttle stick to High (full throttle, all the way up)
- Raise Travel Adjust H until the motor beeps
- Raise Travel Adjust H two more clicks
- Move throttle stick to Low (zero throttle, all the way down)
- Raise Travel Adjust L until the motor beeps
- Raise Travel Adjust L two more clicks
- Castle ESC is now calibrated for throttle
- Set Throttle Curve for Norm to (0,INH,0,INH,0)
- Set Flight Mode switch to Norm/FM1
- Unplug Battery
- Radio off
- Insert Bind plug
- Plug battery in
- Turn on and Bind transmitter
- Remove Bind plug
- Unplug battery
- Radio off
- Radio on
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- If you are NOT using auto rotation bailout feature, set Throttle Curve for Norm/FM1 to (30,30,30,30,30)
- If you are NOT using auto rotation bailout feature, set your Throttle Hold to 0
- If you are NOT using auto rotation bailout feature, you are done
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Everything after this step is only needed if you are using the auto rotation bailout feature
- Throttle Curve for Norm should still be set to (0,0,0,0,0)
- Flight Mode switch still on Norm/FM1
- Throttle Hold is OFF
- Set Throttle Hold to 0
- Plug in Battery
- Wait for ESC to initialize
- Throttle Hold ON
- Raise Throttle Hold setting until the motor starts to spool up
- Lower Throttle Hold setting until the motor stops
- Unplug Battery
- Radio off
- Insert Bind plug
- Plug battery in
- Throttle Hold ON
- Turn on and Bind transmitter
- This bind with Throttle Hold ensures that if you have a signal loss the AR7200BX will output your Throttle Hold setting and not your Low Throttle setting. That way when the signal comes back, the ESC will quickly spool up to speed again.
- Remove Bind plug
- Unplug battery
- Radio off
- Radio on
- You can decide to leave the throttle curve for the Norm/FM1 flight mode at (0,0,0,0,0) or (0,30,30,30,30). You will need a 0 position to arm the speed controller since the throttle hold position is not 0, so you should never really fly in Norm/FM1 in this configuration. An alternative method is to assign a mix to a switch constrained to throttle hold which drops the throttle to 0 when engaged. That is what I personally do, but it complicates the startup procedure and you have to make sure that switch is disengaged when you engage throttle hold to do a bailout.
- You are done
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jadewarrior]

Good heavens... Just power the AR7200BX with an external 4 cell holder from Radio Shack, Fry's, etc with some disposable or rechargeable AAs and be done with it. Cost? Under $10. So much easier than all that jibber jabber and you may want it for future Castle ESC installs with an AR7200BX, too. I did when I got my 550X later on.