Helijive

[WBFAir]

Magneto, I've been told this isn't possible so please excuse this if it is a annoying question, but when they discussed the update, was it mentioned that it could or would be anything that could be done by some way of not sending it into them to have them do it, such as a downloadable update?

Thanks.

[BakedMopar]

Originally Posted by Magneto

Heres the scoop Kontronic has contacted me and they are taking care of me for my problems there a great company dont use mode 8 yet there will be an update but mode 4 is fine for now. Thats all i know right now im sure they will make an anoucement soon about the update .

Are they replacing all of your fried electronics?

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

Magneto, I've been told this isn't possible so please excuse this if it is a annoying question, but when they discussed the update, was it mentioned that it could or would be anything that could be done by some way of not sending it into them to have them do it, such as a downloadable update?

Thanks.

Not Possible on any of the Jives.

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

Not Possible on any of the Jives.

Rats, just was hoping I guess

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

Rats, just was hoping I guess

LOL Me Too. I have sent Jives back to Germany 6 times for updates. actually not bad as far as turnaround, but expensive.

[Magneto]

Yes They have agreed to replace the servos but I would rather a updated Helijive and they agreed its probably better for them anyway ,when I first posted this I wasent out to get Kontronic shit happens and I would use there stuff over anything else,the whole purpose of the thread was to warn you guys who bought one I think it saved alot of headaches on both sides, as far as the update I dont know if it goes to germany or not I would guess yes as into the mystic stated already .It might be an inconvenience but when its all said and done it will be worth it .

[WBFAir]

Thanks Mag,

Just was hoping as with all the craziness of stuff going wrong with electronics is seems lately, and so many unworkignness happening because stuff just is not working with other peoples stuff, that while I'm sure everyone will say K is not this way, I just have this funny spooky feeling that K may take forever to get these Heli Jives fixed and on the shelf as its not just them, but they have to work with the V-Bar people and that certainly isn't gonna make this happen any faster. (not knocking them just more people and communications is not going to help)

And so while I know this is selfish, by that I mean its my problem, but I got a brand new never flown $3000.00 700e and my first real thing over a 450, just sitting here collecting dust as I have no ESC for it as we all know how the Castle thing went.

Btw I even got one of the first replacements and put it up for sale and sold it and shipped it off today, not that I regret that cause I wanted to use, just that it's one more thing.

So now I just have to sit and wait till they get this done where I was hoping that just maybe I could find a HeliJive somewhere and use it for my flagship as from what I was told, it won't effect me on my set up at all.

But the thought of just getting it going and to have to stop that to take it out to send it in is just worse.

And the thought of not when I know something is wrong inside isn't any better.

Heck if I wanted to put myself through that kind of misery, I could have stuck the CC on there.

Anyway, just rambling here so don't mind me.

[Magneto]

Theres nothing positive about that post its being handled you dont even have a helijive and if you did you could be flying it right now in mode 4 I dont mean to sound like an a hole but givem a chance both companies have there act together.

[ElectricSheep]

A $3000 700E?

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by ElectricSheep

A $3000 700E?

Yeah well that's about how much I've spent so far so I could have one.

Kit, all the upgrades I did, new 8FGS, 4 battery packs, two new PL8's to charge those and a bunch of just about double of everything I thought would most likely get damaged in a crash.

Actually for most if it I was keeping track of the purchases quite closely and its actually a little over 4 grand now.

But I kinda gave up on that once I started putting it together bout three weeks ago as I kinda didn't want to know any more.

But as things have gone along with that I've spent more, so between what actually isn't flying, was just figuring it was about that.

Anyway, wasn't trying to sound like a whinier before. Trust me Mag, if you knew me better, you'd know that's not my style.

Just was having a moment of reflection I suppose, but as I said, pay no mind to it.

[dl7uae]

Mode 4: Why not mode 3 (new combined mode) or 6 (mode 11 in the (non-Heli) JIVE)?

And again: There is no bug in the HeliJIVE's firmware.

The "bug" is at the VBar's end (JIVE in mode 8) concerning possible problems during spoolup. The firmware is doing different compared to that used in the adaptation process JIVE-Vbar. The other "bug" is that the implementation of a support for bailout were denied from the VBar's end. Therefore mode 8 cannot support bailout. It may be possible to cure the situation by a setup of the VBar's Gov for a minimum throttle for bailout, that way that the JIVE will still continue to commutate (on a small flame).

"Possible problems": Bad commutation failures causing high surge destroying many components inside the ESC by >100 volts (if running 12S).
(And, swalko, before you come back on this a next time: Propose a solution against damage by those high voltages and I will say: Chapeau! But don't say: Suppressor diode. Such a suppressor (or transil) diode also wouldn't survive.)

Summarized: Better not to use mode 8 with the VBar Gov at the moment.

If I understood MrMel correctly (as well as Rainer from the German VBar support) then a firmware version 5.2 for the VBar is ahead, with an all new governor.

If it should happen that a bailout support will be implemented too, - and if that would require firmware changes at the JIVE's end also (not sure), - then, yes then... the HeliJIVEs out there in fact would need a firmware update. And such an update can be done only by Kontronik itself. Well, it was IMO the only wise way to bring the external programming for the new modes of the HeliJIVE in software for the ProgDisc (and not a 3rd ProgCard). The intention of the ProgDisc is to have a flexible platform (one-time investment) for all further programming means. But, that does not change the fact that the processors in a JIVE need high voltage programming to flash them, which cannot be done by the ProgDisc. ESCs after the JIVE, as the KOBY, do/will have another processor generation which allows to flash them by the ProgDisc.

GN Tom

Just noticed: Good idea to change the title!

[Mystic3D]

A YGE 120 is a good alternative if you can't wait, and don't need a BEC.

It's all just choices.


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by In_to_the_Mystic_2003

A YGE 120 is a good alternative if you can't wait, and don't need a BEC.

It's all just choices.


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah if that was meant for me ITTM, I appreciate the thought, but as I think I was asking in that other post, in the 700 section on the YGE thread, I really want something that has the bailout feature.

Would be kind of a long story to tell but I had an incident back when I was starting with my Castle where not having that setup right with a accidental hold switch flip and back with no instant spool up caused me a crash.

Anyway, point being I learned, at least in my opinion, if your gonna have a active throttle hold switch, you better have a good working bail out system or it could get bad.

[Mystic3D]

Now we Blame VBar = Bull
The facts are:
1. VBar is working fine with other ESC's
2. Kontronik released the incompatible combo, not Mikado
3. VBar did not send HV to servos.

It is Kontronik's responsibility to test and ensure compatibility before release of it's product, not Mikado's.

So basically what you are saying is a throttle pulse going into the ESC has the capability to destroy it.

Geez. K did the right thing by Magneto , they pulled the ESC , they are fixing it. Fine, Great Move.
Now is the time to just fix it, not pass the responsibility and be "right".
Clearly an Engineering led company..


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[Magneto]

Tom yes im sure other modes can be used it was just a general statement without me having to get a manuel and post all combos so no mode 8, Got it!

[Mystic3D]

Magneto,

If you had not brought this to our attention, I for one would have had fried servos as I was prepared to remove my Jive 120HV and put HeliJive on with VBar Gov, IMHO, the only reason I bought HeliJive.

As it stands tonight I am removing Jive 120HV and replacing with a $125.00 KForce 120HV(AKA HW 120). Known to work great with VBar Gov. I know the potential for VBar being the Gov should yield good results. But it has some flaws I am not sure I can live with, the spoolup, banks with rpm changes. I suspect the Jive 120 will go back on. When Mikado and K get the kinks worked out on HeliJive I will prob. be back.

But for now I am done with this BS


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[worldofmaya]

I too think that's really funny... Kontronik releases a new Esc with "new" features and it fails. And it's everyone else fault?
What's the difference betweens CYs, Sk720s Gov or TX based throttle curves and the VBar Gov? At the end it's just a throttle signal and the Esc has to deal with that. The bail-out mode is there and was used since the VBar 5.1 update..
If a BEC fails and fries your electronics,,, of course problems are more complicated, but just saying the problem is on VBars side is a little bit too simple. Especially after a season without problems with other Escs and countless bail-outs.
Funny that this "problem" is only mentioned in one thread and only over-seas. Sorry for you guys who lost something, but by making it public you saved at least myself a lot of money... I'll stay with my working Fusion/Hawk - VBar combo...
I understand that it's complicated to develop a fast and secure Esc, but that's what Kontronik has to do. I hope Mikado doesn't restrict anything just because Kontronik don't get their job done, and I believe they'll not do so...
Btw thanks to Tom for giving feedback...
-Klaus

[worldofmaya]

Btw Mode 8 is called "External Governor Mode" not VBar Mode... manual p17... or is there any communication we don't know off?
-klaus

[Thunder Fighter]

I hope this doesn't delay the relase of the updated Vbar governor for those of us running other ESC's with it. It is meant to have fixes for soft-start, failsafe/unplanned spool-up, easier tuning and is close to release according to MrMel.

//Dennis.

[eddiscus]

As long as the engineers can put their egos aside and both parties work together to a solution it should happen rather quickly.

We are talking about engineers not politicians who cannot agree even with themselves.