Is it me, or is the Hitec HG5000 Gyro crap?

[Serbi]

After spending quite a few afternoons trying to set up the HG5000 and trying to get it to work with my Trex 450 and my Minititan, I've given up in frustration! I bought the Hitec Gyro after reading some glowing reviews, and after reading that it's the same as the Logictec 2100, which is highly praised by some (as good as a 611, etc.) I have to say that for me, the HG5000 was nothing but trouble from the start. Both my helis, which work GREAT with a 401 and 9257 through mild 3D, funnels, become UNCONTROLABLE with the Hitec. I tried all the recommended settings in the manual (which itself is crap), and the settings recommended by the freaks, including ******'s videos. I've tried ALL possible settings, high gain, low gain, high ATV, low ATV, and all possible combinations. Fast turn rate, slow turn rate (whatever THAT means!) In the best case, I could get it to just wag 45 degrees from time to time, while hovering. Forward flight was slightly better, even though it still wagged from time to time. With the Hitec servo, everything was A LOT worse, barely able to hover. It's not mechanical, my tail pitch slider is nice and smooth, I know my way around a Trex and Minititan. As soon as I put the 401 back, everything was rock solid again!
So, I guess either I'm doing something really wrong, or the guys who wrote the glowing reviews (as good as a 611, rock solid, etc.) are full of it. Which is it?

[Madani]

Serbi,
I know how you feel mate. However there is always a reason or a catch! The manual coming with the combi pack is pretty crappy thing, you ar right about that. But the actual gear is really nice stuff unless you are unlucky and have got a faulty one by any chance. Actually I used a 401 and 9257 on one of my 450s, then I bought this Hitech combi pack for my other 450. I had some problem with setting it up initially but it turned out that the tail rotor shaft has become loose in the pulley and I had lost some torque on the rotor blades right at the same time of installing the new Gyro/ Servo! Yes it was a nasty co incidence and I realized that I've started blaming the Gyro or servo! Fixed the shaft and it worked great. I like it better than 401/9257 because it is actually sharper. I also used a voltage drop down for the pack (5V).
Now if you think there is anything which we can help you with please don't hesitate to ask. Good luck
Mark.

[Serbi]

Thanks Mark, I don't think it's something with the heli, as I said, I tried it on both the Trex 450 (old) and Minititan (quite new). In idle up it even seemed worse, with the heli weathervane-ing quite a lot from time to time. I have a DX-7, tried at first settting it up the "conventional" way (Gear used for the gyro gain), and then using ******'s setup (Gear +65 and -65).
Using the Hitec servo made things worse, I then tried both a 9650 and a 9257, was a bit better but not much. With the ATV down to 50% it would be semi-controlable, but still swing wildly from time to time. Low inverted passes with the tail wagging like crazy are a lot of fun, let me tell you :-)
Since it seems to work for you, could you please tell me how you set it up and what your current settings are for the Trex 450? Thx.

[Madani]

Ok Serbi,
Here there are:
-DX7 TX
-Travel adjust on Rudder: +/- 125%
-Gain on Gear Channel : +88% & -64%
- 0 degrees pitch on neutral position for tail (mechanical setup @90 degrees servo and tail pitch slider)
I didn't setup the bird in rate mode. Just straight to HH and let the gyro do the job. But I did the tail mode though.
Are you sure you are using the Gyro set for Digital Servo or the recommended first LED on for the hitech servo?
Are you sure your Gyro recognized the TX type?
Mark.

[Serbi]

Thanks Mark. I've had those settings (more or less.) I even set it up in rate mode, which I never do with the 401. The servo type setting was 1 for the Hitec servo and 2 for the 9650/9257, so that was correct as well. You've got me thinking, though. What if the gyro doesn't recognize the TX properly? I mean, it could sense the gain and everything, and I could perform the setup, but how can I be sure? I did what it said in the manual, held it 10 seconds full left, then 5 seconds on center stick, but is there any way to check and make sure?

[Madani]

If you can move the pitch slider both ways using the control then you are ok.
What voltage are you feeding the Gyro/ Servo ? Also there is a thread in which someone explains a peculiar problem with the Gyro. He deliberates that the electronic board inside the gyro becomes loose and it messes everything up. BTW how have you mounted the gyro and where?

[TMoore]

This is from Brian Tucker who used to be employed by Hitec but is now looking for a new and exciting job in the modeling industry.

1
HG-5000/HSG-5083MG Gyro Combo Quick Start up Guide.
By Brian Tucker
Thank you for choosing the Hitec HG-5000 high performance micro gyro. Following this guide will help
you fully understand all the features of this gyro and allow you to achieve a rock solid tail just like the
pros.
1. Connecting the gyro to the servo & receiver
A. Plug the tail rotor servo into the female connector coming from the gyro (Make sure to connect it in
the proper orientation with the black wire matching on both sides).
B. Plug the connector coming out of the gyro that has 3 wires into the receiver rudder channel slot
(Normally Ch 4).
C. Plug the connector coming out of the gyro that has 1 wire into the receiver gyro gain slot
(Normally Ch 5).
2. Calibrating the gyro to your transmitter
When using the HG-5000 for the first time, you’ll need to do this simple procedure to calibrate the gyro
to your particular transmitter type. Start with the receiver turned off. Turn your transmitter on. Hold the
rudder stick all the way to one side in either direction while turning the receiver power on. You will
see the first 3 LED’s light up in succession. Hold it there for 10 seconds. Return the rudder stick to its
neutral position (No lights are lit in this phase) and leave it there for 5 seconds, then turn the power to
your receiver off then back on again. Calibration is done!
3. Set your Transmitter rudder data as follows. Make sure to set the EPA values the same for both
directions.
A. D/R set to 100%
B. EPA set to the highest setting. 125% to 150% depending on radio used.
C. Sub Trim and Trim set to 0% (Always leave these set to 0%)
4. The gyro gain setting is done in the transmitter, normally on channel 5. Consult your transmitter’s
manual for the channel used on your radio type. The light at the top left hand corner of the gyro marked
TL (Tail Lock) will light when in heading hold mode. This occurs with 50% to 100% gain set in the
transmitter with the higher percentage being the higher gain. Normal Gyro Rate mode (TL light off) will
occur from 50% to 0% with the lower percentage being a higher gain. While the gyro is in normal
operation the LED that is lit indicates the approximate value of gyro gain the transmitter is currently set
too. First LED is 0 ~ 30%, Second LED is 31 ~ 50%, Third through Eighth LED’s are ~ 51 - 100%. The
scale is not linear.
5. Basic Menu Structure
A. Push and hold the menu button down for more then 3 seconds to get into menu mode.
B. Each time you push the menu button it will go to the next menu function.
C. If nothing is touched for 5 seconds it will reset with the light off. Simply push the menu button again
to get to the function you want to set.
D. Pressing the menu button after moving and holding the rudder stick will increase/decrease data values.
E. Left will decrease and right will increase values unless the rudder channel in the transmitter has been
reversed.
2
6. Servo Type Selection (Servo Speed)
Push the menu button to select the “Servo Speed” LED. Hold the rudder stick over and push the menu
button to select the servo type you’re using.
First LED: Hitec’s Gyro Servo Only (HSG-5083MG)
Second LED: General Fast Digital Servos
Third LED: Analog Mini Servos
*Caution: Never use the Hitec Gyro servo mode (First LED) with any servo other than Hitec’s optimized
HSG-5083MG. This mode of the HG-5000 gyro uses a different signal pulse width incompatible with
any other servo product.
7. Gyro compensation direction (Direction)
First, make sure the rudder servo moves the correct direction to the stick input. When you move the
rudder stick to the right, the rudder servo moves in the direction that would increase the tail rotor pitch to
make the nose of the helicopter turn to the right. If it is not correct then reverse the servo direction in the
transmitter. Now, pick up the helicopter and rotate the nose to the left and see which way the servo
moves. The servo should move in the direction that would increase tail rotor pitch to make the helicopter
turn to the right (compensate for the helicopter turning left). If the servo moves the wrong direction then
go to the “Direction” function on the gyro with the menu button and change the LED for the correct
compensation direction.
* To gain optimum performance from the HG-5000 Gyro perform step 8 thoroughly!
8. Servo linkage set up
A. Activate the standard rate mode (25% gain in the TX recommended).
B. With the rudder stick at neutral connect the linkage so that the servo horn and control rod are
perpendicular (90 Degrees to each other).
C. Prepare the helicopter for flight and hover it to check if it rotates with the rudder stick in the neutral
position. Adjust the linkage of the control rod until the helicopter does not rotate at all.
(This mechanical linkage set up is important for proper operation. Do not skip!)
*Caution: Do not adjust the servo horn using Sub-Trim or Transmitter trim. Always adjust the
mechanical linkage, the control rod or servo horn. If you adjust the sub-trim the gyro will recognize the
trim change as a signal input. Then the helicopter will rotate even if the rudder stick is at the neutral
position.
9. Tail Rotor Limit Setting (Servo Limit)
A. Turn on the “Servo Limit” function using the menu button.
B. Move the rudder stick until the tail rotor locates at the end of its travel without binding and press the
menu button to lock it in. Do this with both left and right end points.
3
10. Pirouette Rate (Rotate Rate)
A. Activate the “Rotate Rate” using the menu button.
B. Select TL mode with the transmitter gain around 70% to 80%.
C. Lift off slowly into a hover and check the pirouette rate.
D. Adjust the pirouette speed by setting the “Rotate Rate” value from 1 to 8 by holding the rudder stick
and pressing the menu button.
First LED: Slow Pirouette
Eighth LED: Fast Pirouette
Gyro Default settings:
A. Servo Speed: Third LED
B. Rotate Rate: First LED (Slow Pirouette)
C. Direction: First LED
D. Servo Limit: Left -25%, Right 25%
Error codes:
First LED Blinks: Disorder with built in sensor or abnormal input signal.
Second LED Blinks: No rudder input signal or abnormal input signal.
Third LED Blinks: No gain input signal or abnormal input signal.

[Serbi]

Thanks Brian, did all that. Mark, on both the Minititan and Trex I mounted it above the boom block, right where the Gyro is supposed to go, where I put the 401 as well. I used the supplied Hitec adhesive foam. Voltage was 5 volts from the Minititan ESC and 6 volts without stepdown from the Align XL ESC. Didn't notice any difference.
I'm beginning to think I got mine from a bad batch, or something. The tail wag and occasional drift I get is quite random. Also, I've noticed on other threads that some people love their LGT2100 (which is apparently the same Gyro) and others hate them, not much in between. Your seem to have had no problems with yours, even skipping the mechanical setup in rate mode. I guess they have some quality control problems, and some are just WAY too sensitive. I'm going to enjoy some flights with my trusted 401, then try again from scratch, if it still doesn't work I'm giving up on Hitec Gyros! If anybody thinks they have a better chance than me of getting it to work, I'll gladly sell it real cheap!

[DoctorAudio]

9. Tail Rotor Limit Setting (Servo Limit)
A. Turn on the “Servo Limit” function using the menu button.
B. Move the rudder stick until the tail rotor locates at the end of its travel without binding and press the
menu button to lock it in. Do this with both left and right end points.

What it should say:
B1: Move the TX stick to the left and press the button on the gyro.
B2: Move the stick to the right and press the gyro button
B3: move rudder stick to conter postion and press the button again.

You will know when you are done setting it because the TL lite will come back on and it will show you tyour gain setting again!

That is what messed me up,
I am useing a 9303 radio and the EPA are set to 150% on rudder chanel and the D/R must be 100% when you set it up! Then you can adjust the rates, after!

I have been setting up gyros since 1992. Before that I flew without one!
I have found that maybe 1% of the time it is the gyro. 90% it is how they setup this gyro.
I strongly eurge, to set it up in rate mode. I have found it holds great in TL, but once you set it in rate mode correctly. You will piut the 401 away for a another project!


I bought this gyro on a week ago and I have plus 17 flights on it, with one set of batteries!
But I had a 401 on my T-REX 500 and took it back off once I understood the travel setting thing. After that nother but great performing Gyro!
Thanks, Hope I could help!

Elvan Wilson II

[Pinecone]

I have heard of vibration problems from the supplied tape. Something about having to stretch it first. But people seem to have better luck with other tapes, such as 3M white tabe from Home Depot/Lowes/hardware store.

Also a couple of people had loose board in the case with the 2100T. They opened the case and put in a piece of foam to hold teh board steady.

Overall, my impression is that this basic gyro is more sensitive to vibration than the 401.

[DoctorAudio]

Yo , Serbi.

Have you got it LOCK-IN yet?

I let one of my hard core 3d freinds fly with my HG-5000 in my TREX -500. He left the field to go get him one. He was back in 30mins with a new one and we put it on his 500 and he let me set it up and He says it is better than the it is real close to the 770, But it wins on the price issue!

Just sharing info!
Elvan WIlson II

[Serbi]

Unfortunately not! I spent another afternoon trying EVERYTHING people have been telling me, to no avail. Must have been from a bad batch or something. No matter what I did, after each pyro it would wag, sometimes even during forward flight. It seems to be very sensitive, and maybe just not well suited for my Trex 450 and Minititan. I didn't have the courage to try it on my Trex 500. I sold it for almost nothing (after warning the guy who bought it what he was getting himself into), and it's back to the good ole 401. No more issues, no more hassle, rock solid on my minis, great on my Trex 500 as well!!! The 401 might be big, ugly and outdated, but for me, it works.

[Vinger]

Too bad you sold a good gyro. See the posts about the Logictech 2100 and you would have been amazed at the possibilities with this marvel of electronics that outperforms gyros twice it's price. If only they can get the instructions up to scratch....

[DoctorAudio]

Maybe one of us should rewrite the manual. That may help out others.
Vinger, I choose you!
Now get out of that Pokeball and get to writting!

Everyone that has been telling me not to buy it is now running to the LS to get one!
Hahahaha! Funny how they changed their minds so quick!
Have a great day!

Shuck it is possible that he got one defective!
That sucks to be the one to find it! But that means there is one less bad one out there!
I am interested in finding out , if the guy who bought it got it to work fine!

Elvan Wilson II

[Pulento]

Originally Posted by TMoore

*Caution: Do not adjust the servo horn using Sub-Trim or Transmitter trim. Always adjust the
mechanical linkage, the control rod or servo horn. If you adjust the sub-trim the gyro will recognize the
trim change as a signal input. Then the helicopter will rotate even if the rudder stick is at the neutral
position.

The LTG-2100 manual don't says that, it says if you change the subtrim to calibrate you must power on/off so the gyro gets the subtrim as its center. I have a LTG-2100 and frankly the rate mode setup it's a pain because to achieve a perfect center moving links it's to coarse and moving the tail servo too, we are talking about 0.5mm movements.

And if you have a Spektrum receiver you can rebind it to get the subtrim as the center even without TX signal.

I haven`t dialied my LTG-2100 correctly, can't move the tail servo (it's in the frame) and changing the linkage it's too coarse so I see subtrim as my solution but in every forum people say don't use subtrim.

Also when mention %25 gain on rate mode, which scale do you mean ? %25 on gyro scale or TX scale ? I use DX7 on gyro mode so I have 0-100 where %25 gyro means %37-%36.

Thanks

[Pulento]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

I have heard of vibration problems from the supplied tape. Something about having to stretch it first. But people seem to have better luck with other tapes, such as 3M white tabe from Home Depot/Lowes/hardware store.

I'm using a 3M double-sided gel tape it worked better than the suplied tape.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...cts/VHB-Tapes/

Overall, my impression is that this basic gyro is more sensitive to vibration than the 401.

Mine too. I'm testing the LTG-2100 on a new Dragonus one of the grips is a bit tight and that induces a little vibration which make the LTG to wag at a high frecuency my GY-401 is inmune to that vibe. I hope that with time the grip will loose and see what happens.

BTW there any differences between LTG and Hitec or Align HG-5000 besides packaging and color ?

[TMoore]

Originally Posted by Pulento

The LTG-2100 manual don't says that, it says if you change the subtrim to calibrate you must power on/off so the gyro gets the subtrim as its center. I have a LTG-2100 and frankly the rate mode setup it's a pain because to achieve a perfect center moving links it's to coarse and moving the tail servo too, we are talking about 0.5mm movements.

And if you have a Spektrum receiver you can rebind it to get the subtrim as the center even without TX signal.

I haven`t dialied my LTG-2100 correctly, can't move the tail servo (it's in the frame) and changing the linkage it's too coarse so I see subtrim as my solution but in every forum people say don't use subtrim.

Also when mention %25 gain on rate mode, which scale do you mean ? %25 on gyro scale or TX scale ? I use DX7 on gyro mode so I have 0-100 where %25 gyro means %37-%36.

Thanks

What you are quoting was written by a Hitec employee so take it up with them. I was just passing it along for those that were interested.

TM

[Pulento]

Originally Posted by TMoore

What you are quoting was written by a Hitec employee so take it up with them. I was just passing it along for those that were interested.

TM

Don't get me wrong.

Not saying they are wrong but there's a general confusion here so I really don't know if subtrim is evil or just has to be used with care. That sort misinformation is what makes lots of unhappy LTG-2100/HG-5000 users.

Lots of LTG-2100 owners must use subtrim to get 90 on the horn. I finally got a boom servo mount but had to use subtrim to get 90 then slided the servo until no drift. My tail is rock solid hovering but I do get bouncing when yawing so I'm playing with the delay now.

[TMoore]

You shouldn't use any subtrim at all.

TM

[DoctorAudio]

I have no sub-trim!
Dead lock in!