Autotrim for Swash Level?

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

Perfect explaination Ivor. Now, I have a level swash ...but I do have one servo arm at a slightly differnt angle that the other two. Sounds like I need to worry about that first, then worry about my swash being level second.

How ever because my eyes are getting old I will try to set my arms at 90 degrees. The Trex 600 uses bell cranks so its really easy to see 90 degrees on the servo arms

Hi then you need to change the link length on that one servo and go though the set up again. When you have it all correct use collective travel to set your pitch range.
If you have used more than about 45 % of the aileron or pitch trim to get the swash correct you will need to reset to 0 and get the mechanical set up closer because you need some of the remaining trim to trim in flight. Hope this makes sense. Ivor

[splitboarder]

If you have used more than about 45 % of the aileron or pitch trim to get the swash correct you will need to reset to 0

And when you say this you mean to go to the R/C trims tab and adjust the internal auto trim settings back to zero correct? Then in the adjustment you are refering to the mixer tab correct?

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

And when you say this you mean to go to the R/C trims tab and adjust the internal auto trim settings back to zero correct? Then in the adjustment you are refering to the mixer tab correct?

Sorry dont understand. The auto trim settings that you are useing to set the swash are the same settings that are used when you hit autotrim in flight,so when you use them to set the swash level you must make sure there is enough trim left to trim in flight. If you used all the adjustment to set up there would not be any left for flight trimming.. You only have 1 set of trims for set up and flight. Not like your radio where you have subtrim and trim. So the setting that you have used will change when you hit autotrim in flight. Hope thats clear. I have just check both my helicommands and the max trim is 38 out or the possible 127 so there is plenty left. What are your trim settings now you have set up the swash ?. Ivor

[splitboarder]

On this page on my HC the "internal autotrim settings" after I autotrimmed are aileron (roll) -39 elevator(pitch axis) 3 and tail servo 3

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

On this page on my HC the "internal autotrim settings" after I autotrimmed are aileron (roll) -39 elevator(pitch axis) 3 and tail servo 3

Sorry you are confusing me. You have just set up your swash by manually setting the trim. Now you are saying internal auto trim settings after I autotrimmed, If you operate autotrim after you set up the setting may change. Once you have set the trims manually you should not operate autotrim untill you fly. If you mean these are the settings after setting up manually then the setting are fine. Note the settings in case you operate auto trim by accident before you are ready to fly. There is some protection to stop you from doing this ( autotrim inhibit ) it will stop you useing autotrim if the throttle is below about 30%. Hope this is clear if not ask again. Ivor

[Navigator53]

Ivor

If we do the "auto trim" function while the heli is sitting flat level on the bench, wouldn't that be close enough for flight, provided we're not way far off?

Splitboarders were Ail -39 Ele 3 & tail 45 but numbers became closer to 0 auto trimming on the bench while we were on the phone.

When Splitboarder and I were doing that the other night on the phone, of course it changed my "internal auto trim settings" (bench level)

But once off the phone, I went back and uploaded my last "field auto trim" setting and watched the swash tilt ever so slightly to the right, which makes sense because when flying, the tail rotor thrust pushes the bird to the left.

Flew today and the bird was still flat level because I loaded the "field level" settings back in before flight

BTW Splitboarder, nice screen grab, you do me proud Son

[splitboarder]

Hope thats clear. I have just check both my helicommands and the max trim is 38 out or the possible 127 so there is plenty left.

Can you get a scren shot of WHERE you are looking at the number 38 ?

thats where Im confused.

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Navigator53

Ivor

If we do the "auto trim" function while the heli is sitting flat level on the bench, wouldn't that be close enough for flight, provided we're not way far off?

Splitboarders were Ail -39 Ele 3 & tail 45 but numbers became closer to 0 auto trimming on the bench while we were on the phone.

When Splitboarder and I were doing that the other night on the phone, of course it changed my "internal auto trim settings" (bench level)

But once off the phone, I went back and uploaded my last "field auto trim" setting and watched the swash tilt ever so slightly to the right, which makes sense because when flying, the tail rotor thrust pushes the bird to the left.

Flew today and the bird was still flat level because I loaded the "field level" settings back in before flight

BTW Splitboarder, nice screen grab, you do me proud Son

Your settings on the bench will be close enough. However I would try and get the Aileron closer to 0.

I currently have Ail -12, Ele -5 and Tail 19.

Ian

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by Navigator53

Ivor

If we do the "auto trim" function while the heli is sitting flat level on the bench, wouldn't that be close enough for flight, provided we're not way far off?

Splitboarders were Ail -39 Ele 3 & tail 45 but numbers became closer to 0 auto trimming on the bench while we were on the phone.

When Splitboarder and I were doing that the other night on the phone, of course it changed my "internal auto trim settings" (bench level)

But once off the phone, I went back and uploaded my last "field auto trim" setting and watched the swash tilt ever so slightly to the right, which makes sense because when flying, the tail rotor thrust pushes the bird to the left.

Flew today and the bird was still flat level because I loaded the "field level" settings back in before flight

BTW Splitboarder, nice screen grab, you do me proud Son

Yes thats fine but Spitboarder wanted to know how to set up without useing the autotrim ( bench autotrim ) because some guys will not have it,so I explained how to do it. He followed the intructions and set up. But if I understood correctly he then operated auto trim, why. Your bench autotrim will work fine. I was also trying to explain that after swash set up you must make sure that you have enough trim left for flight trim, its unlikely to happen but possible. Your max is 39 so no problem.
Hope you had a good time tonight. Ivor

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

Can you get a scren shot of WHERE you are looking at the number 38 ?

thats where Im confused.

Sorry I missunderstood, yes that is the right screen RC & Trim, aileron (roll) Elevator (pitch axIs) Ivor

[splitboarder]

Thats great Ivor. Mine is reading -39 and yours is 38 Im right inthere I think

No...if the wind would just quit I could test her out

[Trooper]

These are my current settings.



Ian

[splitboarder]

He followed the intructions and set up. But if I understood correctly he then operated auto trim, why.

Ivor, after I set up the Helicommand I put my swash leveling tool on the shaft and went through my whole pitch curve. The swash leveling tool indicated the airleron servo was lower than the other two. The swash was operating in the right direction but the aileron servo arm is one click off from 90 degrees at 50 percent input. Going back to the basic we all know the swash must be level on any heli or it will fly in the direction of the low servo

Now- here is where I may have made a mistake. I tried l
to lenghten the arm.....but it seemed to me the HC adjusted and put the swash right back to the same spot with the aileron servo lower again by the same length. maybe Im wrong and I just needed to adjust the lenght but that didnt seem to work.

Not being familiar with the HC or software I was desperately looking for a way to raise the one servo. I should have just looked through all of my servo arms and found one at perfect 90 degrees but I didnt do that. I know you guys have told me "now use the trims to raise the one servo." But I couldnt figure out which trim you guys are talking about (Radio trims- trims on the front, sub trim , servo travel) or PC trims ( internal auto trim settings? ) or controll travel of aileron and elevator.

So, knowing I needed a level swash I just took my radio and held the aileron stick to the left slightly to make the swash level . After 8 seconds I hit autotrim and now I have a perfectly level swash through all of my pitch curve. However my aileron servo arm is at probably 95 degrees at 50 percent input where the other two servos are at 90 degrees.

This bird will mostly be an A/P ship with no inverted flight or 3d so I think I may be safe to fly it, however I still want to go back and learn the proper way to raise that one servo. as you told me yesterday adjust aileron and elevator and use collective pitch offset to level it.

I am leaning toward a factory reset, see the aileron servo low and just find an arm that will put it at 90 degrees.

But again...thank all of you guys for a much clearer picture.

I am kind of anal in as far as I need to know like the both of you do how to adjust the helicommand when you are way off in your first set up.

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

Ivor, after I set up the Helicommand I put my swash leveling tool on the shaft and went through my whole pitch curve. The swash leveling tool indicated the airleron servo was lower than the other two. The swash was operating in the right direction but the aileron servo arm is one click off from 90 degrees at 50 percent input. Going back to the basic we all know the swash must be level on any heli or it will fly in the direction of the low servo

Now- here is where I may have made a mistake. I tried l
to lenghten the arm.....but it seemed to me the HC adjusted and put the swash right back to the same spot with the aileron servo lower again by the same length. maybe Im wrong and I just needed to adjust the lenght but that didnt seem to work.

Not being familiar with the HC or software I was desperately looking for a way to raise the one servo. I should have just looked through all of my servo arms and found one at perfect 90 degrees but I didnt do that. I know you guys have told me "now use the trims to raise the one servo." But I couldnt figure out which trim you guys are talking about (Radio trims- trims on the front, sub trim , servo travel) or PC trims ( internal auto trim settings? ) or controll travel of aileron and elevator.

So, knowing I needed a level swash I just took my radio and held the aileron stick to the left slightly to make the swash level . After 8 seconds I hit autotrim and now I have a perfectly level swash through all of my pitch curve. However my aileron servo arm is at probably 95 degrees at 50 percent input where the other two servos are at 90 degrees.

This bird will mostly be an A/P ship with no inverted flight or 3d so I think I may be safe to fly it, however I still want to go back and learn the proper way to raise that one servo. as you told me yesterday adjust aileron and elevator and use collective pitch offset to level it.

I am leaning toward a factory reset, see the aileron servo low and just find an arm that will put it at 90 degrees.

But again...thank all of you guys for a much clearer picture.

I am kind of anal in as far as I need to know like the both of you do how to adjust the helicommand when you are way off in your first set up.

When you changed the rod increased the rod length HC did not compansate for it, thats not possible. So try it again.
Dont be to critical if your swash is close to level HC will sort it in flight.
However I do know where you are comming from you want it perfect. First let me say that no heli set up is perfect simply because you can set all servo arms at 90 but then you cannot set the links 100% because you can only turn the links a full turn or if you buy special ball ends half a turn. So its all a bit of a compromise and the compromise is the servo arms are not at 100% 90 degrees, but its such a small amount it does not matter.
In your position this is what I would try.First set the sortware trims back to 0 and check that the servo arms are as close the 90 as you can get them, if you have other arms try them. Use the trims in the software to set the arms at 90, now set your rod lenghts to get your swash as level as possible. Now use the software trims to set the swash level as I explained to you yesterday. Hope this helps. Ivor

[splitboarder]

Yes, i think its pretty clear now. My lunchtime today will be doing exactly as you say

Going back and set all trims in the internal auto trim to zero.

thanks again. i think Helicommand should hire you and Ian as beta testers or at least give you a free unit each

[Ivor Hill]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

Yes, i think its pretty clear now. My lunchtime today will be doing exactly as you say

Going back and set all trims in the internal auto trim to zero.

thanks again. i think Helicommand should hire you and Ian as beta testers or at least give you a free unit each

I am a retired mechanical engineer and it realy annoys me that I spend a lot of time setting my helis up and then I fit helicommand or flymentor and it screws it up. I love my helicommands but the software is not as good as it should be. All to normal i'm afraid I spent a lot of time fighting software writers who wanted me to change something mechanical to compensate for a software problem,they always seem to want an easy life. Anyway good luck and keep asking if your not happy. Ivor

[splitboarder]

I can relate Ivor. I am an "electronic Electrician " in a wastewater treatment plant. The plant is automated , the operator hits a symbol on a screen with thier mouse and the signal goes from digital to fiberoptic then back to digital.
I have troubleshoot/ repair/replace everything from the fibre optics to the end use. i work with 4 to 20 milliamp/scada /telemetry and 120/240 volt 120/208 277/480 3 phase

Much like our helis I have to start up automated actuators for valves which as you know deals with travel, torque, speed ect. Uploading programs, downloading programs and sometimes writing PLC programs

I agree with your assesment of software engineers. As an electrician it was Never acceptable to tell someone the power is down and will be down the rest of the day. For the software people that a noramal thing

[Navigator53]

Originally Posted by splitboarder

i think Helicommand should hire you and Ian as beta testers or at least give you a free unit each

I feel the same way Splitboarder

I realize that good people like Nightflyr, Ian & Ivor do this out of the goodness of their hearts on multiple forums.

But because of their knowledge and time they put in, the folks at Helicommand don't have too.

What is HC's cost of one unit, the same as a loaf of bread (excluding R & D) ??

Mel

[Navigator53]

I can relate too, I'm a recovering Wind Farm manager on multiple developments in Calif.

I was overseeing:

Turbine installation,

Hiring & training technicians for operations and repair,

R & D for turbine retro-fits,

Met with investors and potential investors,

Went to the board meetings to represent them,

Analyzed failed component and catastropic failures, then wrote and submitted the insurance claims on behalf of the investors.

Troubleshoot and repair circuit componets in the computers that operated the turbines.

But Helicommand kicked my butt

Mel

[splitboarder]

Im looking good here guys. went back and set the autotrim settings to zero and sure enogh my airleron servo was lower. I adjusted the rod length and now the swash is level and the arms look good. I then hit the set button so HC could re learn the nuetral points. i then put my swash leveling tool on the main shaf and I am good to go through my whole pitch curve.

But......my airleron servo is drifting up and down just a bit. I think thats what made me think HC was adjusting the swash when I adjusted the rod. I may have to replace that servo. we will see. But other than that Im ready to test

Saturday