FBL Servo ball spacing and other questions?

[Finless]

OK I guess I missed this in Mr. Mel's videos or he didnt cover it.

I am using V5.0 Pro on a Mini V-bar. It lead me to believe the only way to adjust tail gyro gain is with the slider in the software and that the GEAR channel was used for bank switching. I am using a X9303 so on that radio the gyro menu only works on AUX2 but I do not mind using travel adjust for gyro gain. I have not watch Mr. Mels vids on bank switching yet so I assume there is something there with tail gyro gain?

Also in SETUP to center my channels and get them 100/100 it took quite a bit of subtrim (in the 30's) and travel adjust to get 100/100 on each channel is 116 to 117. I was worried about that so I even went into the X9303 service menu and recalibrated my sticks. No change.
But when doing that centering at the bottom of the centering screen is the BANK adjust. With the gear switch in one direction it is about 15 and the other it's 125. Am I suppose to zero that out with travel adjust on gear? Mr. Mel does say anything about that.

Thanks guys, it's a learning process.

Bob

[nightflyr]

Add what ever sub trim to get your VBar Tx cal 100 / 0/ -100

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...t=anti+finless

Sorry I just had too

I'm not using bank switching so hopefully others will chime in as far as that goes

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Finless

OK I guess I missed this in Mr. Mel's videos or he didnt cover it.

I am using V5.0 Pro on a Mini V-bar. It lead me to believe the only way to adjust tail gyro gain is with the slider in the software and that the GEAR channel was used for bank switching. I am using a X9303 so on that radio the gyro menu only works on AUX2 but I do not mind using travel adjust for gyro gain. I have not watch Mr. Mels vids on bank switching yet so I assume there is something there with tail gyro gain?

Also in SETUP to center my channels and get them 100/100 it took quite a bit of subtrim (in the 30's) and travel adjust to get 100/100 on each channel is 116 to 117. I was worried about that so I even went into the X9303 service menu and recalibrated my sticks. No change.
But when doing that centering at the bottom of the centering screen is the BANK adjust. With the gear switch in one direction it is about 15 and the other it's 125. Am I suppose to zero that out with travel adjust on gear? Mr. Mel does say anything about that.

Thanks guys, it's a learning process.

Bob

Bob you CAN adjust gyro gain with your radio, it is a parameter in the software. Basically your aux is gyro gain. Below the gain you will see a readout that says From TX: and then it will show a value. As far as how to setup, I am unsure too (I use a Control Panel for tweaking at the field), perhaps ask in the V-Bar forum

Regarding subtrim and EPA/ATV, use what you need to get the full range of movement from -100 to +100.

[KidHeli]

Originally Posted by Finless

OK I guess I missed this in Mr. Mel's videos or he didnt cover it.

I am using V5.0 Pro on a Mini V-bar. It lead me to believe the only way to adjust tail gyro gain is with the slider in the software and that the GEAR channel was used for bank switching. I am using a X9303 so on that radio the gyro menu only works on AUX2 but I do not mind using travel adjust for gyro gain. I have not watch Mr. Mels vids on bank switching yet so I assume there is something there with tail gyro gain?

Also in SETUP to center my channels and get them 100/100 it took quite a bit of subtrim (in the 30's) and travel adjust to get 100/100 on each channel is 116 to 117. I was worried about that so I even went into the X9303 service menu and recalibrated my sticks. No change.
But when doing that centering at the bottom of the centering screen is the BANK adjust. With the gear switch in one direction it is about 15 and the other it's 125. Am I suppose to zero that out with travel adjust on gear? Mr. Mel does say anything about that.

Thanks guys, it's a learning process.

Bob

i noticed the same thing but as chris h is saying it is okay to go has high as needed to get 100 0 -100, the thing i had to remind myself was that fbl gyro set up is very different than fb set up. i ended up with 117 on my cyclic.

i dont know enough about bank switching nor am i using it right now so i cant comment or help... sorry.

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by Finless

OK I guess I missed this in Mr. Mel's videos or he didnt cover it.

I am using V5.0 Pro on a Mini V-bar. It lead me to believe the only way to adjust tail gyro gain is with the slider in the software and that the GEAR channel was used for bank switching. I am using a X9303 so on that radio the gyro menu only works on AUX2 but I do not mind using travel adjust for gyro gain. I have not watch Mr. Mels vids on bank switching yet so I assume there is something there with tail gyro gain?

Also in SETUP to center my channels and get them 100/100 it took quite a bit of subtrim (in the 30's) and travel adjust to get 100/100 on each channel is 116 to 117. I was worried about that so I even went into the X9303 service menu and recalibrated my sticks. No change.
But when doing that centering at the bottom of the centering screen is the BANK adjust. With the gear switch in one direction it is about 15 and the other it's 125. Am I suppose to zero that out with travel adjust on gear? Mr. Mel does say anything about that.

Thanks guys, it's a learning process.

Bob

Bob,

I hate to dissapoint you but the Geometry is not correct if you use the Align 3G Head with the MiniV. The distance on the FBL Arms is too narrow. You will find this out once you get into setup of the Collective and Cyclic in Vbar setup and try to get 80-100.
It will fly with the 3G Head, but when you push it you will notice some odd flight characterisics. The 450 Pro is by far the hardest heli to get "right" on FBL for me.
If you search my posts you will see what I am talking about. Wayy too much time
and $$ getting it right.

Best results I have so far is the RJX Head on the 450 Pro. Mikado head dampening is too soft.

[Finless]

So if I move the balls on servo arms in more I should be able to get the 80-100? I realize the link angles will be a little off but that can be tuned out.

Bob

[KidHeli]

hey bob i asked that question to readyheli and here is there response, i have 60 right now to 8 degrees....

Department: Technical/Product Support

Subject: Align FBL Head

Message:Hello John, Your current set up should be fine. Having the numbers in the 60's will not over work you mini Vbar. If you are still uncomfortable you could try moving the pivot balls in one hole closer to the center of the servo arm. That should let you increase all of the settings for your Vbar. Align helis that have been converted from FB to FBL like the 600 and 700 with bell-cranks between the swash and the servos tend to have more throw than is needed for flybarless setups. Align does sell servo wheels and bell-cranks with a different ratio that works better for a flybarless setup. I hope this helps sean

hope this gives you some help.

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by KidHeli

hey bob i asked that question to readyheli and here is there response, i have 60 right now to 8 degrees....

Department: Technical/Product Support

Subject: Align FBL Head

Message:Hello John, Your current set up should be fine. Having the numbers in the 60's will not over work you mini Vbar. If you are still uncomfortable you could try moving the pivot balls in one hole closer to the center of the servo arm. That should let you increase all of the settings for your Vbar. Align helis that have been converted from FB to FBL like the 600 and 700 with bell-cranks between the swash and the servos tend to have more throw than is needed for flybarless setups. Align does sell servo wheels and bell-cranks with a different ratio that works better for a flybarless setup. I hope this helps sean

hope this gives you some help.

I personally really like Readyheli but I do not go to them for setup advice. On a larger heli, you can be lower than 80 on cyclic and it's no big deal. The 450 Pro is a different story.. by far one of the hardest FBL setups to get right.

If you are happy with the way it flies there is no need to change it.

Moving the servo balls in will get the cyclic numbers higher than 60 for sure. I have changed so many heads and servo wheel positions I cannot not even remember what the measurement on the servo wheels was on the Align Head. I do know that I tried the Mikado Head, Align Head, and an RJX Head, and the RJX yields the best results.

[nightflyr]

I am so glad I went with the microbeast now

[BakedMopar]

If you don't mind me asking Bob is there any perticular reason you switched to the 5065 from the 410?

[airjawed]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

I am so glad I went with the microbeast now

Just placed an order for Microbeast and the Align FBL head parts myself. Will see how it flies before I make a call on it.....it'll be a while considering this winter weather we are having.

Bob... what blades are you going with?

[Gregor99]

Originally Posted by airjawed

Just placed an order for Microbeast and the Align FBL head parts myself.

AJ, I just recieved that setup on Thursday, all except for the swash driver due next week. I started assembling the head and noticed I was missing the small brass washer that sits between the thrust bearing and the outer radial bearing in grip (#2 in the image below). I took the washers out of my FB head to complete the head. The washer didn't come with the thrust bearings (PN HS1268 as defined in the Readyheli parts finder below). If anyone knows which Align parts package this comes with, please chime in.








Per the comments early in this thread, I went ahead and moved the balls in one hole on my 5065s. Now at approximately 12mm which is the second hole from the center on the Hitec servo arm.

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by airjawed

Just placed an order for Microbeast and the Align FBL head parts myself. Will see how it flies before I make a call on it.....it'll be a while considering this winter weather we are having.

Bob... what blades are you going with?

Can not vouch for the ALIGN FBL head, but it has yet to give issue with using RJX or CNCHelicopter or CopterX heads

[airjawed]

Originally Posted by gregor

AJ, I just recieved that setup on Thursday, all except for the swash driver due next week. I started assembling the head and noticed I was missing the small brass washer that sits between the thrust bearing and the outer radial bearing in grip (#2 in the image below). I took the washers out of my FB head to complete the head. The washer didn't come with the thrust bearings (PN HS1268 as defined in the Readyheli parts finder below). If anyone knows which Align parts package this comes with, please chime in.








Per the comments early in this thread, I went ahead and moved the balls in one hole on my 5065s. Now at approximately 12mm which is the second hole from the center on the Hitec servo arm.

Looks like it comes with the dampers:

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product...oducts_id=2800

[Gregor99]

Thanks! Oddly, the new hub comes with dampers and washers. But they are the ones that sit between the grips and the head. The same washers come with the spindles, so have an extra set but I'm down one set of brass washers. Sadly, I have two sets of KDBB dampers and now I need to get the Align dampers just for the washers. But I'm sure it could be worse so I'll stop complaining.

[XYZVector]

Move em in one on the hitec arms might cause some binding in the swash, at least it did with my head. Im using about 12.5 mm from the center of the horn.

[Finless]

Well I am damn close to setup now. I see one thing I might do to get it closer to 80 and that is put shorter balls on the swash to main grips.

On another note, someone said you could adjust the tail gyro gain in the radio. OK gotta ask how? I messed with this a lot and the only adjustment that works seems to be only the tail gain slider in the 5.0 software. The gear switch or travel adjust on gear seems to only effect the bottom left portion of the screen on the channel labeled AUX. When changing that it does not seem to effect or override the slider in the software. You can see it by how sensitive the tail is to movement. Also tried adjusting AUX2 travel adjust and again no change that I can see.

Am I missing a setting or something?

Also had a hell of a time getting the Align ESC to work until I realized it was not arming due to the fact I needed to increase low stick travel adjust until it armed. I just got fast beeps otherwise. Now what concerns me is 100% throttle? Unlike the other channels where you can set center and full travel 100/-100 and it shows a bar graph, this does not exist for the throttle channel. What I did was look at the screen right after bind that does show a tiny little bar graph and adjusted travel until it looked like the other channels as far as how far it moved. Then I reprogrammed the ESC to teach the new throttle channel ends. Seems to have worked but to me the Vbar software needs a throttle adjust function like the other channels.

Bob

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by Finless

Well I am damn close to setup now. I see one thing I might do to get it closer to 80 and that is put shorter balls on the swash to main grips.

On another note, someone said you could adjust the tail gyro gain in the radio. OK gotta ask how? I messed with this a lot and the only adjustment that works seems to be only the tail gain slider in the 5.0 software. The gear switch or travel adjust on gear seems to only effect the bottom left portion of the screen on the channel labeled AUX. When changing that it does not seem to effect or override the slider in the software. You can see it by how sensitive the tail is to movement. Also tried adjusting AUX2 travel adjust and again no change that I can see.

Bob

You can use Flight Modes to adjust Gyro Gain or Bank Switching. See thread below.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=262414

[Finless]

OK so I have the Pro software and that guy is saying all gain adjustments are done in the software with Pro version. So now that makes sense since no matter what I do the radio is not adjusting gain on GEAR.

Bob

[stevehof]

Originally Posted by Finless

OK so I have the Pro software and that guy is saying all gain adjustments are done in the software with Pro version. So now that makes sense since no matter what I do the radio is not adjusting gain on GEAR.

Bob

If you are using bank switching then you cannot adjust the tail gyro gain from the transmitter. If you are NOT using bank switching, you may just need to change the aux/gyro gain channel in V5 software to match the channel on your transmitter that your 'gear' control is on...If you are still having problems, I suggest you look for answers at the Vstabi forum.

http://www.vstabi.info/en/forum

Cheers and thanks for all YOUR help!