Mini protos 6s timing?Pinion?can I get more power

[bigsteve]

Hi,can anyone advise what timing and pinion is best for my mini protos 6s,I'm using a 15t on stock yge60 settings (18 timing I think)
It's swinging 325 sab blades and using 1300mah lipo and putting back 700-800 mah on a 4 min flight doing 3d.
Can I get much more power out of my setup?

[dl5973]

whats the power like?

[scott s]

what 1300 packs and what is ther discharge rating. if you are running low c discharge packs that could be the problem. My mini on thunderpower 1300 65c discharge batteries with 15 tooth pinion has plenty and I mean plenty of power and that is stretched with 350 blades!
I use ice lite esc set to low timing and 8khz pwm as recommended by castle for scorp motors. cc ice esc's auto adjust timing for motor. i could bump up to mid timing range and get even more power along with more heat LOL, but my heli does not need more power!

[bigsteve]

Originally Posted by dl5973

whats the power like?

The power is good,does not bog at all but I was wondering if I could get more out of it by changing the timing.im going to try a 16t pinion at the weekend to see if more head speed will keep me happy.im not complaining at all.im always craving more more more lol

[bigsteve]

I was told on 6s the discharge rate doesn't matter so much as it doesn't draw any more than 25amps.would higher timing give more power?and more heat?

[gitbse]

Just a simple question, but if it never bogs, why would you want more? Mine is still on 3s and I feel like it has plenty of power. I like working on left stick management though, so I don't mind a little less power. That's just me though.

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by bigsteve

I was told on 6s the discharge rate doesn't matter so much as it doesn't draw any more than 25amps.would higher timing give more power?and more heat?

Thats 20C. The same 20C you get from a 3S setup pulling 50A. Battery rating certainly matters.

anything more than 18deg timing is not going to do much, just make the motor hotter.

[Dylwad]

Originally Posted by bigsteve

I was told on 6s the discharge rate doesn't matter so much as it doesn't draw any more than 25amps.would higher timing give more power?and more heat?

I logged 37 amp peaks on 6s stretch with the 30c Gens ace 1200's with vbar gov and a 15 tooth pinion. 3200 rpm.

From tapatalk

[kavic5150]

What brand and C rating are your packs?

I noticed quite a bit more oomph and higher headspeed with a 6s 1300mah 25C thor lipo vs my normal 6s 1300mah 30C blue lipo.

Originally Posted by desertstalker

Thats 20C. The same 20C you get from a 3S setup pulling 50A. Battery rating certainly matters.

anything more than 18deg timing is not going to do much, just make the motor hotter.

Amp draw is divided in half when you multiply cell count by two. C ratings are not as important with a 6s 450 as they are on a 3s 450.

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by kavic5150

Amp draw is divided in half when you multiply cell count by two. C ratings are not as important with a 6s 450 as they are on a 3s 450.

Wrong.

Current requirement may be halved but so has the capacity of the cell, thus the C rate of the discharge is unchanged. You need slightly less C rating for most 6S setups because you go from 3S 2200 mAh to 6S 1300mAh (~20% more energy capacity if you work it out in Wh) but if you kept the packs the same capacity (in Wh ie. a 6S 1100mAh pack) then the C rating required would be the same.

Higher voltage setups have advantages, but required pack specs is not one of them unless you are increasing the amount of battery being carried.

[dl5973]

Originally Posted by desertstalker

Wrong.

Current requirement may be halved but so has the capacity of the cell, thus the C rate of the discharge is unchanged. You need slightly less C rating for most 6S setups because you go from 3S 2200 mAh to 6S 1300mAh (~20% more energy capacity if you work it out in Wh) but if you kept the packs the same capacity (in Wh ie. a 6S 1100mAh pack) then the C rating required would be the same.

Higher voltage setups have advantages, but required pack specs is not one of them unless you are increasing the amount of battery being carried.

I was just about to make this point.

I dont know why people think when going 6s they require less C rating for their packs.

[bigsteve]

i thought i needed less c rating because thats what i read on another forum.i normaly belive what i read,so now ive read 2 different things but i belive this more.my packs are 25c and deliver good power but i now realize that 65c thunderpower might be what im after for that extreme power and headspeed

[scott s]

The lower c is not so noticable, but still noticable when you are running say a 12 s set up with high capacity packs as high capacity allows more amps at c rating. You are running low capacity packs on the mini so yes on low capacity packs a high c rating is gonna make a huge difference in the batterys ability to supply needed amps and higher voltage under load

[bigsteve]

I just realised my packs are 45c lol NOT 25.im going to try a 16t pinion tomorrow as I could afford to put back another 200 mah and it wasn't bogging.so 16t might be what I'm looking for

[scott s]

Originally Posted by bigsteve

I just realised my packs are 45c lol NOT 25.im going to try a 16t pinion tomorrow as I could afford to put back another 200 mah and it wasn't bogging.so 16t might be what I'm looking for

Yap could be you just need a little more head speed. Your flight times are gonna drop with the 16 tooth a little. That extra 200 mah might get you the same flight time you get on the 15 however.

Be nice and tell us what packs you are using. Not all packs are created equal on there ability to maintain high voltage under load even with same c discharge rating.!

[bigsteve]

Well 15t put back 800mah after 4.20 flight so I'm guessing 16t will put back 1000 of the 1300 after. 4.20 flight and also give me the head speed and power I want.im fairly excited about trying the 16t lol,love flying my protos

[dl5973]

The 6s set up on the miniprotos and stock 6s motor is similar to the scorpion 6 motor on 3s set up on a 450 heli.

I get around 35a max amp drawn which equates to around 750 watts input power on 325mm blades

the scorpion 6 motor drew around 70 amps on 3s set up to give similar input watts.

6s is the way to go if you want to fly hard.

on 6s set up Im using a 30c Turnigy Lipo

on 3s set up for scorpion 6 motor I was using 65c nano tech lipos.

on 6s stock motor I get an extra 30 sec flight time than on 3s with the scorpion 6 motor.

[kavic5150]

Originally Posted by desertstalker

Wrong.

Current requirement may be halved but so has the capacity of the cell, thus the C rate of the discharge is unchanged. You need slightly less C rating for most 6S setups because you go from 3S 2200 mAh to 6S 1300mAh (~20% more energy capacity if you work it out in Wh) but if you kept the packs the same capacity (in Wh ie. a 6S 1100mAh pack) then the C rating required would be the same.

Higher voltage setups have advantages, but required pack specs is not one of them unless you are increasing the amount of battery being carried.

Go back and re-read my post. What I stated was accurate and you simply restated it in your post. And you are leaving out the increased motor efficiency of 6s vs 3s.

If what you said were really true, then there would be little reason to upgrade to 6s.

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by kavic5150

Go back and re-read my post. What I stated was accurate and you simply restated it in your post. And you are leaving out the increased motor efficiency of 6s vs 3s.

If what you said were really true, then there would be little reason to upgrade to 6s.

What increased efficiency? There may be some, but its not going to be massive (pretty much all BLDC motors used in our applications end up somewhere between 80-90%. Biggest advantage to 6S over 3S is for the ESC.

The main reason you get more power from the common 6S setup is primarily the use of 1300mAh packs, 6S 1300mAh as ~20% more energy in it than a 3S 2200 so of course can provide 20% more power without stress (3S 2600 with an esc and motor that can handle the current would give similar performance). The higher voltage helps a bit with losses on the way to the motor as well.