Oiling motor bearings on Align motors or dry??

[newflyguy1]

i'm still a bit new and have about 30 flights on my Align 450M. i think the power is great and runs smoothly but i recently had a few indoor flights and notice a pretty loud(like ear piercing!), really high pitch scream/squeal once the motor spools up and stays consistent thoughout all throttle range, well over 20%(1st 1/4 stick). i must say it was a USED motor when i got it so i couldn't really say the exact life/flights it has already had on it. it was just such an annoying high pitch screech that i didn't even run my last 2 packs because it just pierced my my ears and i wanted to get some info before i kept going. i'm using a 13t pinion, align 35A esc & 11.1v 2200 TP 30C packs. i'm worried i'm just making a bigger deal out of it than it is but was hoping somebody could reassure me or tell me what i need to do as far as maintnence, adjustments,etc does it need some oil in the bearings maybe?
on a possibly related note, i have been trying to solve the "puzzle" of why i can't stop this darn slow but pretty much steady clockwise tail drift(GY401 w/S9250 in HH at about 45 gain in my Futaba 7C). i've been reading up on that which is also making me lean towards some motor vibrations issues. i've already reset the gyro in standard and all the other possible drift fixes does an audible vibration squeal relate to the kind that mess with my Futaba GY401?
i do have a Align 430xl that i'm about minutes away from just swapping the 450M with but i thought i would put this out to all of my freaks first, since you all have been such an amazing resource for all of my ??'s so far

thanks already for everything guys!!!!!

[wanderer56]

Technically, sealed bearings are lubricated for life and are maintenance free. High pitched noise is not uncommon. If you have a lot of side play in your shaft, the bearings can be replaced. (See sticky above)

I would be more inclined to think maybe your main shaft bearings are at fault. One crash can take them out.

[Wolfpackin]

Remember these bearings are not sealed, they are shielded.
That said, I haver never oiled or lubed the bearings in my 430XL and it has over 275 flights on it.
Align motors seem to do well with no maintenance and will run for hundreds of flights.

Checking the main shaft bearings is a good idea, they can easily be lubed or replaced if necessary.

[wanderer56]

duh! I used the wrong word, but both are considered lubricated for life. There are cases such as a pillar block and flange bearings used on machinery that have shields and grease fittings provided.

Thanks for catching that wolfpackin.

[newflyguy1]

So I swapped out my 450m with my 430xl. Love it runs much much smoother( 13t pinion, same esc and lipo). Immediatly I saw a huge difference in sounds, no high pitch squeal. Love the power and it seems comparable to the 450m
After I got the 450 out I noticed that it was very rigidee and notchy to turn, wouldn't spin freely at all. Could this be a bearing issue from the noise or is that how the 450m is suppose to feel. The 430 spins smooth and freely with hardly any effort
Thanks for all the advice and please tell my your feedback on the 450's ridgyee notchee turning.
Just need to replace bearings or something worse....


Thanks again

[newflyguy1]

can anybody point me in the right direction to find out more about the very rigid and nocthy spinning on my, now, old 450M motor. the last few flights with it in(explained above) it was really giving off a high pitch screeeching squeal at higher rpm's. i also had my esc on "slow start" mode and sometimes it wouldn't allow the motor to fully spool up because it was like fighting that notchy resistance. i even manually spun the blades while it was chugging through slow start up and a couple times i was able to get it to power throough that notchy resistance into a full speed spool up. in hiensight that should have been my 1st clue to this motor issue?? so the question remains, what is causing that sticky notchy resistance when i try to manually spin the pinion(out of the heli and without power) are the bearings just toast or is it a more detramental issue with this align 450M?? anybody have some insight or have this happen to their motor?

[jlharv]

I noticed that my "M" motor was very stiff to turn by hand too. If it were a gas motor you would say that it has high compression, is the feeling that it gives. I think it just uses stronger magnets or something like that. I have tried to spin the motor by hand on mine, and several friends, and the all feel the same. I think that is normal for these motors.

I too have flown hundreds of flights on Align motors and never oiled any of them. I have read too many stories where people put oil in and then they have to keep oiling every 5 or so flights, or the oil just spins out and the motor burns up.

[newflyguy1]

Ok that make sence. & yeah that was a great way to describe the feeling I'm talking about. It feels like a gas engine with super tight compression! Thanks for the insight & sharing ur experience.

[Roundwords]

Yeah the notched feeling is due to the magnets and is normal for the 450M.

[newflyguy1]

Well that's a bit of a relief to know! Thanx guys. I have already started to contimplate on ways of disassebling the 450m to check out the bearings & inspect for any derbris that might hae been causing that tight notchy (compression pressure) feeling.
Got a few more flights in the last time I was here & I gotta say I'm still liking the 430 just as much now l, if not better! The one annoying problem that stll remains would be getting my tail to "lock"!?! I swear I've tried everything from vibrations to hardware setup to pot & tx adjustments but I just won't Stay straight in a controled hover
anyhooo, thanks for all the help with my motor issues & maybe could someone be nice enough to show me the best/newest reference in solving this clockwise slow tail drift with my GY401/S9650/7c

[jlharv]

If you have already tried everything I don't want to tell you the same thing you have tried 10 times before.

One of the picky things I remember about the 401 is that it likes it's limit set as close to 100 as possible. Meaning that you want to position the ball on the servo as close to the center as possible and still get the full travel of the tail pitch slider with the limit right around 100. The further in, the more resolution that the gyro has. Also, your headspeed and no binding is important. Head speed give the tail more authority. Less vibes makes it better because you can get more gain with out wags. And believe it or not, a flat throttle curve helps. Even in normal mode make your throttle flat from mid stick on. Other things I have found, is some tail blades work better than others. The batman blades that come on the V2 are not as good as the KBDD blades. Hopefully that give you a couple ideas.

[newflyguy1]

thanks much John! i am still sorting out this drift sitch and getting tired of troubleshooting. you had a couple new ideas and info that i haven't considered yet.
what are you guys using to attach the GY401? i'm using this servo/gyro vibration absorption gel pad from amainhobbies http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ng-Gel-1-Sheet.

what are your thoughts on this product? i'm worried that it's too mushy and this may be why i can't stop this slow drift? should i just go back to the OEM square pads sandwiched metel plate that come with Futaba's GY401?
what are you guys using?

[jlharv]

The 401 has always been a pretty solid gyro and not needed all the fancy gel or sandwich mounts like that. I always just used a single fresh gyro pad. After too many flights they do get too mushy and need replacing. Seems like these new more sensitive gyros are a lot more picky. So many people having trouble, throw an old 401 on and like magic it is all good.

[newflyguy1]

i do have another gy401 in the toolbox but what distingushes an "old 401" between a "new 401" do you know if its like different years or can we reference model/serial numbers?? i'm intriged.

oh, and i'm about to swap out this fancy gel mounting stuff with this factory mounting square pad. hope it helps????

wish me luck

[jlharv]

No, I don't think there is a different vintage of 401. I just call it old because they have been making them for ever. And it seems like people have all kinds of problems with all of these newer generation gyros. The 401 is nothing fancy it is kind of a "bread and butter" product for Futaba, it just plain works. Unless you are doing some of these crazy hardcore 3D moves, the 401 will work just fine.

[newflyguy1]

oic, thanks for the clearification. i'm still practicing FF and got 2 whole loops in so far, lol. that being said, it seems like it is IMOA almost more important to have a solid/straight tail when your still learning like me. it just gets sooo annoying and really tends to break my focus on manuvuers when i constantly need to input tiny rudder adjustments to stay straight!!!! i'm getting sick of it

[jlharv]

When you start doing flips and loops you want to have some expo on your tail too. That way you won't unintentionally add rudder. Good luck with your tail and let us know how it turns out. And don't worry that your still learning. We were all there at one point. In fact if we keep trying new stuff, we are all still learning. That is what makes this a great hobby, there is always a new challenge.

[newflyguy1]

thanks again guys!!!! i don't know how any one person could even get a bird in the air without the amazing support of freaks like you
p.s i'll definately remember to play with my rudder expo oonce i get into some more serious 3D

many thanks to all of HF

[bowmaaker]

well i think your 450 bearings are pooched and would replace bearings if you can- screech is one of the bearings dying and if you continue running it it will totally fail and you ll wreck the motor totally and or crash-not worth it -Your tail may be an oil issue also -i oil tail bearings and drive shaft periodically!