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700 Class Electric Helicopters 700 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar. |
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11-11-2010, 02:21 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think I need a hug......
Well something bad happened to my 700e 3G today. One of my tail blade grips decided to divorce the rest of my helicopter 5 feet off the ground while hovering inverted. Sounded like a ricochet bullet and the heli started full speed piro. 3G did it's job and kept the heli flat. I raised it up so I could flip it over and I had no cyclic. Many were there and saw me moving the cyclic stick. I was stirring as fast as I could but nothing for about 30 seconds or so. I hit throttle hold and dropped it down close to the ground then blipped the collective a couple times to slow the blades down till it dropped like a brick. Boom hit and spun the heli over breaking the all the usual things and the skids. Canopy survived with a few little chips out at the landing gear. The whole frame is good minus the lower carbon fiber plate. Batteries good and I plugged it back in and all servo's, esc, main shaft and feathering seem to be good at this point. I found the departed tail grip with blade about 50-60 feet away from were the heli was flying.
So here is the shitty part. Way back I was so worried about the tail bolts breaking that I bought a box of 12.9 blue screws from McMaster Carr and replace mine early on. Some of you should remember I offered to send out free screws including shipping to anyone that asked for them. I shipped out about 40 of them to online guys all over the USA and gave a couple sets away locally to buddies. It was a blue screw that broke. About 1mm down from the head and the rest of it is still in the hub. Just for the record the screw was loc-tited and only snugged up since there were murmurs and rumors of peeps over tightening the stock screw and that's why they were breaking. The grips always had that little bit of lateral movement, I wonder if that is where the design flaw is. I wonder if Raptor 90 or MA tail hubs will work? Now what do I do? The stock tail bolts suck, these 12.9 blue bolts suck so what's next? I find myself really wondering what to do. Is the Quick UK stuff better or not? I need to find something else for this besides the stock stuff. I think I can have it up in the air for a bit over 200 bux but this poor ass design on the tail really is bumming me out.... See pictures, Bummed out Tom |
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11-11-2010, 02:27 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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I change mine per ten flights lol
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ALIGN TREX 250SE 450SE V2 500ESP 550E 600ESP 700E NOVUS CP BLADE MSR BLADE SR 120 BLADE SR |
11-11-2010, 02:34 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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First of all let me give you a I feel sorry for your loss. The one thing I would recommend, if you still want to use the stock tail blade grips then the KDE tail upgrade is a good way to go I'n order to beef up the Align ones.
Otherwise, go with the QuickUK grips, I have them on my 700 Nitro and they are great. Another alternative is to buy the original 700N Pro, plastic grips, believe it or not I know a lot of Pros that they prefer them vs. the metal ones. Hope this helps. Rebuild and get it up flying soon .
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At the precipice, we change! Team GrandRC |
11-11-2010, 02:38 PM | #4 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Sorry for you guy :-(
I've changed a few weeks ago for the quick UK tail... Do somebody know if it'll last ?? Anybody had bad luck with Quick UK tail ?? thanks a lot |
11-11-2010, 02:44 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I'm sorry for your mishap. What head speed were you running? I sold my 700N to get my 700E but I have never really heard of this issue with the 700 nitros. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the electric high headspeed craze. I'll be maidening my 700E this weekend but I use to run 1950 with 710 blades on my 700N and the Heli was a ton of fun. With my 700E I have idle 1 set for 1950 and idle 2 set for 2050 but I have seen people running as much as 2400 on a 700E! Sorry for the long wind, anyway, what were you running for a head speed? This makes me nervous to maiden my 700E this weekend. I used the stock tail with the exception of the bolts, I picked up a couple 3x10mm 12.9 grade screws from my local hardware store.
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11-11-2010, 03:18 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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I think high frequency tail vibes are to blame for a VERY large portion of these tail bolt failures. No matter, sucks to see you put it in though.
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11-11-2010, 03:24 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Had you crashed or otherwise damaged that tail before and not replaced those bolts?
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11-11-2010, 03:37 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Sorry about the crash. Same thing happened to me about a month ago and I was using the KDE upgrade bearings and bolts. I've since upgraded to the QuickUK and no problems so far.
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Former owner of T-Rex: 250, 450 V2, 500ESP V-Bar, 550 DFC 3GX, 600ESP V-Bar, 700E 3G |
11-11-2010, 04:06 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Thanks for the well wishes and all.
Head speed is 1900 and 1950 in idle up 1 & 2 respectfully. No crashes but I did have the plastic pin thingie fail and my tail rotated. The tail blades slightly touched the ground in front of me. I've had 20 flight since but that's all I can say about it. Prolly about 75 flights so all has been good for awhile. I will have parts for it by next week, a problem of mine is having a broken toy laying around, it has to be fixed! I just hate the mental side of a mechanical, electrical or radio failure. When I should be having fun thinking "What if?" I had a lot of confidence in the machine prior to this.....I'll have to build it back up. Tom |
11-11-2010, 04:40 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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The Nitro with the metal grips has the problem as well. I'm talking the LE, not the older Pro with the plastic grips , those had better quality hubs.
As far as the plastic thingy goes, KDE has a great upgrade for it and now even Align has a metal one as well .
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At the precipice, we change! Team GrandRC |
11-11-2010, 05:06 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Tom,
That's just a damn shame to have that happen to you, especially after trying to head it off at the pass with the little blue bolts... There's got to be something that is a root cause of this. I can't believe that a bolt rated for such tremendous tensile strength could fail from normal tail operation. Was there any play in the tail grips that could have caused lateral movement? Or maybe there is a harmonic vibe of some sort - someone should send a message to Align and ask them to figure it out.
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Align/Copter-X 450AE-V2 hybrid Belt CP w/ Copter-X head in scale fuselage Align T-Rex 500ESP w/mods Align T-Rex 700E (final testing stage) |
11-11-2010, 06:09 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Sorry about that, man that is not cool when it's mechanical.
I have a theory that I will try and describe. The Align Hub has lateral play which has been mentioned. So this is creating a side load on the bolt, even when the KDE upgrade adds the 3rd bearing it is not supported by the tail hub, but by a longer bolt. The bolts, 12.9, whatever are not as robust(strong) as the tail hub to be able to withstand side loads. The plastic grips "flex" allowing the side load to not stress the bolt. Now if you take apart the Quick UK Tail Hub(I have) you notice the tail hub supports ALL the bearings, the bolt is not subject to ANY lateral loads. The bolt is only subject to the centrifigal load caused by spinning blades. Much better design and what I am currently running. So I think(theory) the solution is either the Align Plastic Grips or the Quick UK Tail.
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"If you think you can or you can not you are right" Goblin Xera 4530, YGE 160,VBar Diablo, HJive, 4525 Ultimate,VBar Synergy N5C sitting in Box... |
11-11-2010, 06:39 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I agree with all that.
Is there somewhere to get the Quick UK replacement tail in the USA? Tom |
11-11-2010, 06:59 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
It's the same for the 600/700 Hope you get your heli on the air soon
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Minicopter Diabolo 800+ - Minicopter Triabolo - Srimok FAIFA Jeti DS-16 |
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11-11-2010, 07:01 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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Readyheli and Esprit Hobby
Trex 600/700 hub is the same, Esprit has the silver one.
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"If you think you can or you can not you are right" Goblin Xera 4530, YGE 160,VBar Diablo, HJive, 4525 Ultimate,VBar Synergy N5C sitting in Box... |
11-11-2010, 09:39 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Also GrandRC has all the colors, I went with the black one
http://www.grandrc.com/inc/sdetail/141052
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At the precipice, we change! Team GrandRC |
11-11-2010, 10:28 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Sorry for the crash
This happened with my nitro 3 times and electric 2 times. All the 5 times came in around 2 years. This has been discussed so many times, but align doesnt look to be interested. One of the 3 times with my nitro I had almost total loss and had to rekit and buy new engine and muffler. Its realy shame that a couple of cents bolt fails and causes this much loss I think its time to switch to quick UK |
11-11-2010, 11:14 PM | #18 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I think I was the first person this happened to with the 700E on the forum
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=234744 Bad luck mate, it hurts because you know it was not your fault. Align need to address this issue and I have sent them a complaint about this with no response. Very poor on there part. This same failure caused me $1200 worth of damage. I would sent them an email because the more they get, they may just do something about it instead of sweeping it under the carpet. Let's be real here, imagine if the helicopter went out of control and hit someone!, how can Align just ignore it?
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AH-6M gunship/700E mechanics/OF six blade head/four blade tail. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=330933 |
11-11-2010, 11:57 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Going on my 3rd crash i can certainly feel your pain. It just isnt cheap no matter how you cut it. Do you feel these bolts you installed were to blame? You mentioned that you gave away more than 40 of these. If both answers are yes i would consider a warning maybe. I mean this can happen even on the stock bolts so maybe it was just a defective screw.
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GOBLIN 700 SPEED-KOSMIK200-700XF-NEO-BK CYCLIC AND TAIL TREX 700E-NEU KDE 1917-12 PINION-NEO -JR 8717 HV CYCLIC-MKS990 TAIL-ICE 160-KDE UNIVERSAL MOUNT W/PINION SUPPORT |
11-12-2010, 05:32 AM | #20 (permalink) |
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think it must be more than a screw issue. Must be the design of the tail hub or something else. Maybe the slop that's built in to the tail grips? My point on the blue 12.9 machine screws is now no one is save! I just sport fly and light 3D.
This has turned out to be about $300 so far..... Tom |
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